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Beautiful Joe 02-23-2016 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwibird08 (Post 3919377)
Thank you for understanding:). I don't care if anyone agrees with me, but I since we're all stating opinions here, I'm stating mine;) just like everybody else.

I am not ill informed, ignorant or too lazy to vote. I have a unique perspective on the political system. I believe very, very few (if any) politicians (regardless of party or leanings) serve their entire term(s) making their political decisions based on what's ACTUALLY best for the majority of the public without a hint of self serving abuse of power that favors themselves or their "cronies". Anyone who believes otherwise is perhaps a tad naive. Whether or not someone is "ok" with that kind of behavior is their opinion, but I know I'm not.

I guess one could say I contentiously object to participating in our political system as-is. Politicians are self serving, voters are self serving, corruption proliferates under this system and very few people are actually trying to look at what is good for the whole of the country (or state or city), not just themselves or their inner circle (no matter how they'd like to spin it to seem like what will serve them best will serve the majority best, even when it doesn't). As the own saying goes, the fish rots from the head.

So, what are you doing to change the situation? (Because I think that abstaining isn't going to change things one iota.)

VeggieSince88 02-23-2016 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwibird08 (Post 3919377)
I guess one could say I contentiously object to participating in our political system as-is.

Interesting choice of words. :) I've never heard anyone say they're contentious about objecting to our political system. I've heard of conscientious objectors, but not contentious ones. :confused:

Kiwibird08 02-24-2016 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeggieSince88 (Post 3919425)
Interesting choice of words. :) I've never heard anyone say they're contentious about objecting to our political system. I've heard of conscientious objectors, but not contentious ones. :confused:

Must have been autocorrect!

Kiwibird08 02-24-2016 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe (Post 3919409)
So, what are you doing to change the situation? (Because I think that abstaining isn't going to change things one iota.)

This is a valid question. I have not figured that out yet, though I agree to an extent that one person not voting isn't really going to have any noticeable impact on the political system. Kind of like how one individual being a vegan isn't going to have any noticeable impact on the factory farming industry. Why do it if it makes no noticeable impact since you're only one individual saying "this is wrong and I will not participate" right? I'm actually not even objectionable to voting should a decent candidate come forward, but I will not be voting for someone I don't support and do not feel would be good for my country just because society tells me I need to pick one or else be viewed as a lesser person for not.

My ears are always open to groups focused on PEACEFULLY changing the system, especially a group looking to abolish partisan politics (which I truly feel is the root of the majority of our problems). I would even be willing to step outside my comfort zone and interact with other people face to face, which seldom few things in life could ever entice me to do voluntarily. I have yet to find a group though that isn't just aimed towards "training" for some kind of armed revolution/apocalyptic scenario. Now I will probably be asked why I don't start a group myself. Who would join? Not in fantasy "if you can dream it you can achieve it" land, but in the real world. Why would anyone listen to me? I'm an unattractive societal reject who has unpopular views. I would have about as much luck in finding people willing to even listen with an open mind, much less start a group with me, as "the end is near" people holding signs on the corner. I'm not delusional about how people view me, but I still don't feel I should actively contribute to the problem, even if I haven't *yet* figured out what kind of positive impact I can make towards a solution.

Dave in MPLS 02-24-2016 08:54 AM

It is beyond question that money can have a very negative effect in politics, but we should remember ...

Jeb! had the largest super PAC in history. He sometimes spent more than his opponents combined. And last week Jeb! dropped out because he barely cracked single digits at the polls.

Dave in MPLS 02-24-2016 09:10 AM

Y'know what bugs me?

The only way to avoid being accused of supporting someone 'just because' of their identity is to vote for a white male. Non white males even have to downplay their identity to be taken seriously.

TailFin 02-24-2016 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe (Post 3919409)
So, what are you doing to change the situation? (Because I think that abstaining isn't going to change things one iota.)

Made me think of David Foster Wallace's quote on voting:


If you are bored and disgusted by politics and don't bother to vote, you are in effect voting for the entrenched Establishments of the two major parties, who please rest assured are not dumb, and who are keenly aware that it is in their interests to keep you disgusted and bored and cynical and to give you every possible reason to stay at home doing one-hitters and watching MTV on primary day. By all means stay home if you want, but don't bullsh*t yourself that you're not voting. In reality, there is no such thing as not voting: you either vote by voting, or you vote by staying home and tacitly doubling the value of some Diehard's vote.

Kiwibird08 02-24-2016 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TailFin (Post 3919881)
Made me think of David Foster Wallace's quote on voting:


If you are bored and disgusted by politics and don't bother to vote, you are in effect voting for the entrenched Establishments of the two major parties, who please rest assured are not dumb, and who are keenly aware that it is in their interests to keep you disgusted and bored and cynical and to give you every possible reason to stay at home doing one-hitters and watching MTV on primary day. By all means stay home if you want, but don't bullsh*t yourself that you're not voting. In reality, there is no such thing as not voting: you either vote by voting, or you vote by staying home and tacitly doubling the value of some Diehard's vote.

I do not appreciate the implication I use drugs because I don't vote. I have not directly attacked anyone on this board with a low blow shot like that during this discussion.

TailFin 02-24-2016 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwibird08 (Post 3919969)
I do not appreciate the implication I use drugs because I don't vote. I have not directly attacked anyone on this board with a low blow shot like that during this discussion.

That was not in any way implicating you do drugs, nor was it directed as an attack at you. It is a quote from one of the greater writers we've had in the past few decades that was relative to Beautiful Joe's comment.

I'm sorry that you were only able to take away that one phrase from the quote, which was a generalization.


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