Homicide rate in the U.S. - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 89Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 02-03-2016, 05:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
Homicide rate in the U.S.

Quote:
Homicide rates in the U.S. were seven times higher than an average of other high-income countries, largely fueled by a gun homicide rate in the U.S. that is about 25 times higher than others. The survey, published in the American Journal of Medicine, was conducted using 2010 mortality data from the World Health Organization for 23 high-income nations.

Young people were particularly affected by gun deaths. The firearm homicide rate for those ages 15 to 25 in America was 49 times higher than in the other countries in the survey. The study also found that between 2003 and 2010, other countries saw a drop in the rate of homicides involving guns while the U.S. figure remained static.

http://time.com/4206484/america-viol.../?xid=homepage

No surprise there, and yet so many Americans still vigorously defend our "Constitutional right" to shoot each other.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 02-03-2016, 05:49 PM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
Yeah. As an outsider I hear about the daily mass shootings in the states and also hearing people wanting less gun control. Infact I think you are getting less gun control? I think it's insane. I am very glad I do not live in the US TBH.

edit---------

You want to know what's extra bad about it? It's not targeted kills....like gangs killing other gang members or something similar. It's people going to malls or movie theatres and killing as many people as possible.

Last edited by odizzido; 02-03-2016 at 05:56 PM.
odizzido is offline  
#3 Old 02-03-2016, 06:40 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by odizzido View Post
Yeah. As an outsider I hear about the daily mass shootings in the states and also hearing people wanting less gun control. Infact I think you are getting less gun control? I think it's insane. I am very glad I do not live in the US TBH.

edit---------

You want to know what's extra bad about it? It's not targeted kills....like gangs killing other gang members or something similar. It's people going to malls or movie theatres and killing as many people as possible.
Those mass shootings are the ones you hear about from the media because they are terrifying and dramatic. There are certainly not 'daily mass shootings.'

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nd-terrorism-/

"Mass Shooting Tracker counts 389 mass shooting gun deaths in 2014 and 375 so far in 2015."

There are what, 320 million people in the US?
veggie man and Kiwibird08 like this.
LedBoots is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 02-03-2016, 07:11 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
There aren't daily mass shootings, but there are daily shootings. Read the first sentence of the quote in the opening post.

Those figures don't even include the children who shoot other children or themselves, or any of the accidental shooting deaths.
no whey jose likes this.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#5 Old 02-03-2016, 08:51 PM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hundreds-dead/

As said in the article there is a definition in the US as to what a mass shooting is. Personally to me anytime someone opens fire into a crowd of people that would count as a mass shooting. By my own definition there is more than one per day in the US.

Check this out.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls
no whey jose likes this.
odizzido is offline  
#6 Old 02-04-2016, 01:50 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Even if the mass shootings aren't daily, they are alarmingly frequent! Hundreds of mass shootings a year is not an acceptable figure.
no whey jose is offline  
#7 Old 02-04-2016, 05:02 PM
Ankle Biter
 
Poppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,333
I read somewhere that a mass shooting is defined as one where at least four (or was it three?) people are shot. And it's not just shooting into crowds, but can apply to family and work disputes, where the shooter knows his victims. So under that definition, we actually have a lot of "mass shootings".

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
Poppy is offline  
#8 Old 02-09-2016, 04:05 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Move of Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,157
It's been decreasing over the past 20 years or so, but yes, it's still insanely high compared to other countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
yet so many Americans still vigorously defend our "Constitutional right" to shoot each other.
I've never heard anyone claim that we have a constitutional right to shoot each other. You mean the right to own guns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by odizzido View Post
Yeah. As an outsider I hear about the daily mass shootings in the states and also hearing people wanting less gun control. Infact I think you are getting less gun control? I think it's insane. I am very glad I do not live in the US TBH.

edit---------

You want to know what's extra bad about it? It's not targeted kills....like gangs killing other gang members or something similar. It's people going to malls or movie theatres and killing as many people as possible.
Eh? I don't know why all the focus is always on "mass shootings". They are certainly bad, but way more people are killed in individual shootings than mass shootings. And I doubt that most mass shootings are indiscriminate.
Move of Ten is offline  
#9 Old 02-09-2016, 04:52 AM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
I think for me it's because those are the ones I generally hear about on the news. I do however know that on average someone gets shot in the US every 20mins, the vast majority of which don't qualify as mass ones as fewer than four people get shot in a single incident.
odizzido is offline  
#10 Old 02-09-2016, 01:42 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Crouton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 421
I live in Australia, and we are pretty much proof that gun control CAN work if implemented properly. Years ago when I was a toddler there was a horrible mass shooting in Australia. So the Government acted and put in new strict gun control laws, pretty much immediately after that shooting. I grew in a country with those laws and in my life I haven't seen another mass shooting in this country, because there has never been one since the new laws. It can be done, a lot of countries have done it, the US just refuses to.
Crouton is offline  
#11 Old 02-09-2016, 02:04 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crouton View Post
I live in Australia, and we are pretty much proof that gun control CAN work if implemented properly. Years ago when I was a toddler there was a horrible mass shooting in Australia. So the Government acted and put in new strict gun control laws, pretty much immediately after that shooting. I grew in a country with those laws and in my life I haven't seen another mass shooting in this country, because there has never been one since the new laws. It can be done, a lot of countries have done it, the US just refuses to.
"...Sharing the shock of his people, the newly elected Prime Minister, John Howard — just two months into his eleven-and-a-half years in power — seized the chance to overhaul Australia's gun laws, trampling all opposition to make them among the strictest in the developed world. "I hate guns," he said at the time. "One of the things I don't admire about America is their slavish love of guns ... We do not want the American disease imported into Australia." Howard argued the tougher laws would make Australia safer. But 12 years on, new research suggests the government response to Port Arthur was a waste of public money and has made no difference to the country's gun-related death rates..."
http://content.time.com/time/world/a...736501,00.html
no whey jose likes this.
LedBoots is offline  
#12 Old 02-09-2016, 02:20 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Crouton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
"...Sharing the shock of his people, the newly elected Prime Minister, John Howard — just two months into his eleven-and-a-half years in power — seized the chance to overhaul Australia's gun laws, trampling all opposition to make them among the strictest in the developed world. "I hate guns," he said at the time. "One of the things I don't admire about America is their slavish love of guns ... We do not want the American disease imported into Australia." Howard argued the tougher laws would make Australia safer. But 12 years on, new research suggests the government response to Port Arthur was a waste of public money and has made no difference to the country's gun-related death rates..."
http://content.time.com/time/world/a...736501,00.html
if you really want to know the difference, you have to come here and talk to the people of Australia. I'm one of a generation that grew up in a country that seemed entirely without guns. Sure, we still have gun crime, but what we don't have is school shootings, cinema shootings, mall shootings, we don't have children accidentally shooting each other, or children accidentally shooting their parents, we don't have cops shooting tons of people just because they are afraid that person might be armed. Most people here have never seen a gun or ever heard one fired, other than on the belt of a cop. And the gun crime we do have is limited to a relatively small group of hardened criminals, the worst of the worst, as they seem to be the only ones who can access guns, not just any every-day average person, and that's where the difference is.

The internet is full of thousands of articles for and against Australia's gun laws, some biased, some not, some by the NRA itself trying to turn Americans off the idea. But as someone who lives here, and grew up here I can tell you it makes a huge difference. If you came here and spoke to the people you'd get the only true picture of what it's like to live without fear of shootings. And the fact that there has been no mass shootings since the laws came in is a pretty strong fact that kind of speaks for itself.
Crouton is offline  
#13 Old 02-09-2016, 02:34 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Move of Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crouton View Post
I live in Australia, and we are pretty much proof that gun control CAN work if implemented properly. Years ago when I was a toddler there was a horrible mass shooting in Australia. So the Government acted and put in new strict gun control laws, pretty much immediately after that shooting. I grew in a country with those laws and in my life I haven't seen another mass shooting in this country, because there has never been one since the new laws. It can be done, a lot of countries have done it, the US just refuses to.
I believe gun control can work (i.e. make a positive difference) in the US. But it's a much bigger challenge than it would be in Australia. There are over 300 million guns here and they won't all disappear regardless of what legislation is enacted. Then there's also the large proportion of the population who believe owning guns should be a protected right, that they're good to have for self defense, and so on. And some other factors, but I believe those two are the big ones.
Move of Ten is offline  
#14 Old 02-09-2016, 02:41 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Also the Second Amendment to the Constitution is a thing
veggie man and Lipps like this.
LedBoots is offline  
#15 Old 02-09-2016, 10:42 PM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
I wish we had stricter gun control in canada. I'd actually like it to be like japan where pretty much nobody has one.....minus up north.
Crouton and Jenn2 like this.
odizzido is offline  
#16 Old 02-09-2016, 11:24 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Crouton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 421
I think the biggest difference between the US and Aus, is that as a child growing up here, I thought guns were fiction. I legit thought that only people in the movies and TV shows had them, I didn't even know they were real things or that people could own them in some countries till I was much older. And a lot of the children growing up now are exactly the same, they are seen as this almost fantasy thing in TV and movies for kids, not a real thing.
no whey jose likes this.
Crouton is offline  
#17 Old 02-10-2016, 02:09 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Naturebound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,609
Guns aren't the only weapon used for random acts of violence. A few years ago, at a local grocery store I frequent often, a man walked in the store with a knife and randomly chose an elderly woman to stab to death. Two store clerks tried to fight him off of her but it was too late. I can't walk into a public place now without looking over my shoulder constantly. I don't like it when people get too close to me.

Guns just make it easier for people to kill each other. But bombs are increasingly popular too.

My Dad had a set of rifles hanging on the wall in the basement when I was little. He never talked about them with my sister and I, never showed us that they could be dangerous. We even played with them (without telling our parents), but thankfully they were unloaded. As a young adult I lived with an alcoholic who had a loaded rifle in our apartment (legally). He came home drunk and violent on more than one occasion and I unloaded the rifle and hid the bullets in a tile in the ceiling just in case. For all I know they could still be there.

In the end, only kindness matters. - Jewel



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Naturebound is offline  
#18 Old 02-10-2016, 03:15 AM
Newbie
 
janetc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
Also the Second Amendment to the Constitution is a thing
This ad:
janetc is offline  
#19 Old 02-10-2016, 04:11 AM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
Sounds terrible naturebound I am glad you're no longer living with that person. The only violence I've ever really seen was a barfight in fukuoka which I happened to be right by and was able to break up almost immediately. I didn't even know the people involved.

And yeah for sure. People can kill eachother with their fists or anything lying around on the street really. Limiting people to knives reduces the maximum amount of damage that can be done though.

I remember when I was in japan there was a stabbing spree in akihabara....I don't remember if anyone died. It's a good thing the person didn't have a gun or it would have been much much worse. Thankfully guns are pretty much impossible to find there.
no whey jose likes this.
odizzido is offline  
#20 Old 02-10-2016, 04:34 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Crouton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 421
On December 12th, 2012 Adam Lanza shot dead 28 people at an elementary school in America. He killed 20 children, 6 staff, his Mum and himself.

On December 12th, 2012 Min Yongjin stabbed 24 people at a primary school in China. He stabbed 23 children, and one elderly woman, all survived with non-fatal injuries.

It's very odd, that both of these events occurred on the same day, both in primary schools in different parts of the world. I know knives can be very deadly, and that people do die from stab-wounds quite often (and that there has been some incidents of mass-stabbings). But comparing the two is vastly different. The damage that can be done with a knife, can't ever be compared with the damage of a semi automatic weapon that can fire dozens of rounds in mere seconds. It always bugs me when I see pro-gun people online shouting "but there will still be stabbings!!". Well yeah of course there will be, but comparing a close-range, slow weapon, with guns that can be fired at incredible speeds from long distances, at a lot of people at once is hardly a comparison at all.
Beautiful Joe and Spudulika like this.
Crouton is offline  
#21 Old 02-10-2016, 05:57 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
People can kill with any weapon, sure, but it's a hell of a lot harder to quickly and spontaneously stab or beat someone to death than it is to pull a trigger. Guns do too much irreparable damage in too short a time, and in my opinion there's no reason why anyone should own something so lethal.
no whey jose is offline  
#22 Old 02-10-2016, 06:11 AM
Newbie
 
ladyfey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
It is worth noting that social scientists estimate between 250,000 and 370,000 instances of defensive gun use (scaring off an attacker/robber) per year. In America. As they say, when you have seconds to live, the police are just minutes away.
veggie man likes this.
ladyfey is offline  
#23 Old 02-10-2016, 06:23 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyfey View Post
It is worth noting that social scientists estimate between 250,000 and 370,000 instances of defensive gun use (scaring off an attacker/robber) per year. In America. As they say, when you have seconds to live, the police are just minutes away.
Actually, the statistics show that an American gun owner is far more likely to use his gun against himself, his loved ones, or an innocent victim than against a criminal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nt-people-die/
no whey jose is offline  
#24 Old 02-10-2016, 06:56 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Approps of why Japan has stroct sword laws, where family heirlooms were confiscated.


LedBoots is offline  
#25 Old 02-10-2016, 09:00 AM
Beginner
 
Lipps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 134
I own guns. Quite a number, in fact. Pistols, revolvers, bolt-action rifles, semi's, single shot, all in various calibers. I reload ammunition (think of it like recycling) too. I used to hunt when I was a teenager, but I haven't gone hunting in over 20 years now. Never cared much for it. I do like shooting. I have been shooting since about the age of 6 or 7. My dad bought be a little .22 rifle. I toted that thing around everywhere. Back then a kid with a .22 didn't raise eyebrows like it would today. Of course we lived in a more rural area of Texas, so it wasn't like everyone else's kids were toting their own .22's.

Anyway, in all my years not one of my guns killed a person on purpose or accident. Never once have I been angry at someone and thought to reach for my gun to end a fight. -and I have been angry plenty of times.
I have always assumed that it was my upbringing, you know, the way I was raised. As a kid, I fully understood what a gun meant to the life of the animals I killed. It wasn't hard to imagine what that would mean for a human.

Shooting, for me, is meditative. Much of the skill in long-range shooting requires an intense focus on one's breathing, heart beat, and squeezing the trigger at just the precise moment where your entire body is motionless and the mind is of a singular purpose. It's much harder than it sounds. Indeed, few master it -ever. But when you do sense it, it's like no other sensation.

Do people do terrible things with guns? Sure, people do terrible things with pretty much everything under the sun. Guns, bombs, industrial waste (Flint, MI, et.al.), -even cigarettes. There is no shortage of tools and substances people use to kill themselves and each other. In the past and present, the West has experimented with the prohibition of tools and substances. Guns, alcohol, drugs, various pesticides and other chemicals. We know from experience prohibition rarely works -and fails spectacularly when there is a market demand. (think drugs and alcohol)

Ultimately, you have a choice, you either accept that individuals are responsible for their own actions or you don't. If you do, then the problem of violence cannot be defined or addressed by the mode (or, modus operandi), rather one must consider motive as a guide for finding solutions to violence.
LedBoots likes this.

The symbol of the race ought to be a human being carrying an ax, for every human being has one concealed about him somewhere, and is always seeking the opportunity to grind it.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

Last edited by Lipps; 02-10-2016 at 09:02 AM.
Lipps is offline  
#26 Old 02-10-2016, 09:14 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TailFin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipps View Post
I own guns. Quite a number, in fact. Pistols, revolvers, bolt-action rifles, semi's, single shot, all in various calibers. I reload ammunition (think of it like recycling) too. I used to hunt when I was a teenager, but I haven't gone hunting in over 20 years now. Never cared much for it. I do like shooting. I have been shooting since about the age of 6 or 7. My dad bought be a little .22 rifle. I toted that thing around everywhere. Back then a kid with a .22 didn't raise eyebrows like it would today. Of course we lived in a more rural area of Texas, so it wasn't like everyone else's kids were toting their own .22's.

Anyway, in all my years not one of my guns killed a person on purpose or accident. Never once have I been angry at someone and thought to reach for my gun to end a fight. -and I have been angry plenty of times.
I have always assumed that it was my upbringing, you know, the way I was raised. As a kid, I fully understood what a gun meant to the life of the animals I killed. It wasn't hard to imagine what that would mean for a human.

Shooting, for me, is meditative. Much of the skill in long-range shooting requires an intense focus on one's breathing, heart beat, and squeezing the trigger at just the precise moment where your entire body is motionless and the mind is of a singular purpose. It's much harder than it sounds. Indeed, few master it -ever. But when you do sense it, it's like no other sensation.

Do people do terrible things with guns? Sure, people do terrible things with pretty much everything under the sun. Guns, bombs, industrial waste (Flint, MI, et.al.), -even cigarettes. There is no shortage of tools and substances people use to kill themselves and each other. In the past and present, the West has experimented with the prohibition of tools and substances. Guns, alcohol, drugs, various pesticides and other chemicals. We know from experience prohibition rarely works -and fails spectacularly when there is a market demand. (think drugs and alcohol)

Ultimately, you have a choice, you either accept that individuals are responsible for their own actions or you don't. If you do, then the problem of violence cannot be defined or addressed by the mode (or, modus operandi), rather one must consider motive as a guide for finding solutions to violence.
Please note that all questions below are genuine in nature, and are not sarcastic and are not meant to be offensive. I'm asking, because I am curious for your thoughts.

I appreciate your views. What is your opinion on gun control, rather than elimination of guns? What are your thoughts on no background checks at gun shows? I would think that responsible gun owners would be upset at irresponsible gun owners? It seems like the irresponsible folk are the ones that cause stereotypes.

I'm not one for removing rights afforded to us by our government, but at the same time, I'm not for exploiting those rights, either. Do you find responsible gun owners for or against gun control? I've heard both sides of the story, so I'm interested in your side.
TailFin is offline  
#27 Old 02-10-2016, 09:22 AM
Veggie Regular
 
odizzido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 727
odizzido is offline  
#28 Old 02-10-2016, 10:14 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
I understand that people enjoy the sport of shooting, but honestly? Take up darts or something. Considering the harm that guns can do-- ARE doing-- it's not worth it.
Crouton and Jasminedesi16 like this.
no whey jose is offline  
#29 Old 02-10-2016, 10:33 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Spudulika's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 1,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
I understand that people enjoy the sport of shooting, but honestly? Take up darts or something. Considering the harm that guns can do-- ARE doing-- it's not worth it.
Or maybe go to a firing range, hire a gun and get your sporting fun in a controlled environment? We have clay pigeon shooting here in the UK. Though I don't 'get' guns, I take no issue with that as a sport either. Controlled conditions, supervised, safety equipment etc.
no whey jose likes this.
Spudulika is offline  
#30 Old 02-10-2016, 10:38 AM
Super Moderator
 
no whey jose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika View Post
Or maybe go to a firing range, hire a gun and get your sporting fun in a controlled environment? We have clay pigeon shooting here in the UK. Though I don't 'get' guns, I take no issue with that as a sport either. Controlled conditions, supervised, safety equipment etc.
Yeah, I could get on board with that.
no whey jose is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off