VeggieBoards

VeggieBoards (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/)
-   The Compost Heap (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/)
-   -   Correlation between Veg*n and Atheism/Agnosticism? (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/192105-correlation-between-veg-n-atheism-agnosticism.html)

afveggie 10-11-2015 11:17 AM

Correlation between Veg*n and Atheism/Agnosticism?
 
I've noticed that there seems to be a correlation between Veg*n and Atheism/Agnosticism? Thoughts?

LedBoots 10-11-2015 11:38 AM

Online there is. In the real world, look at India, for example.

veganfitnessjunkie 10-11-2015 12:14 PM

I've noticed the same thing. Although I've noticed it with people who are spiritual but not religious as well. One thing both being nonreligious and being vegetarian/vegan have in common is going against the herd in a core belief. People who are willing to go against the herd in one area are probably more likely to do the same in another area.

I haven't been able to find any research linking the two.

Interesting article on the personality traits of vegetarians: https://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2006is...ue1beliefs.htm

Article on personality traits of atheists: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/science...ality-profile/

Beautiful Joe 10-11-2015 12:32 PM

I agree with Ledboots that it appears to be primarily an online phenomenon, and it's made even more pronounced online by the way the militantly atheist post on discussion boards like this one. I've seen quite a few people of faith withdraw from the boards because of it.

veganfitnessjunkie 10-11-2015 02:10 PM

I found a report by Faunalytics that studied this (it was in a study on former and current vegetarians).

Of current vegetarians, 47% do not practice a religion compared to 22% in the general population. 34% of vegetarians are Christian compared to 71% in the general population. 9% are Buddhist or Hindu compared to 1.4% of the general population.

Faunalytics report: https://faunalytics.org/wp-content/u...ull-Report.pdf (it is on page 5)

PEW research: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/a...ous-landscape/

mr_falafel 10-13-2015 07:40 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the suggested correlation? Do there tend to be more atheist veg*ns or religious ones?


I'm atheist and vegetarian. I'd be interested to know whether that makes me an unusual breed!

leedsveg 10-13-2015 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe (Post 3799681)
I agree with Ledboots that it appears to be primarily an online phenomenon, and it's made even more pronounced online by the way the militantly atheist post on discussion boards like this one.

I don't think that atheists are any more militant than people of religion. I think it's just that after being supressed for so long in the USA, they are now becoming more assertive.

unovegan2 10-13-2015 09:10 AM

i think that the correlation exists based on the type of person to question the status quo..i see similar correlations in other social movements as well.

Beautiful Joe 10-13-2015 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedsveg (Post 3801633)
I don't think that atheists are any more militant than people of religion. I think it's just that after being supressed for so long in the USA, they are now becoming more assertive.

I agree that atheists aren't any more militant, but I do find the same personality traits among atheists as among religious folk, in that some of each group are hell bent on being right and in using ridicule and/or shaming tactics to make their respective points.

Capstan 10-13-2015 10:24 AM

Based on my own observations, which is confined to US culture over the last 60-years or so, I don't see a connection between the two. In my life, I've seen a very notable increase in the number of people calling themselves atheist or agnostic, compared to, say, the 1950s, yet the increase in veg*ns appears to have been at a much lesser rate. There are far more atheists and agnostics today than there was 60-years ago, but the number of veg*ns still seems relatively low, so I don't see a correlation between the two.

bldudas 10-13-2015 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe (Post 3799681)
I agree with Ledboots that it appears to be primarily an online phenomenon, and it's made even more pronounced online by the way the militantly atheist post on discussion boards like this one. I've seen quite a few people of faith withdraw from the boards because of it.


I left many websites because of the militant atheism.
I went vegetarian at first because of what I was taught at Sunday school about the no killing thing.

Dogma 10-13-2015 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veganfitnessjunkie (Post 3799673)
One thing both being nonreligious and being vegetarian/vegan have in common is going against the herd in a core belief. People who are willing to go against the herd in one area are probably more likely to do the same in another area.

This. The meat industry and it's associates survive because you don't ask questions. So does religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bldudas
I left many websites because of the militant atheism.
I went vegetarian at first because of what I was taught at Sunday school about the no killing thing.

I seriously doubt that was compelling enough to make all of your classmates go vegetarian with you. That's because the bible is all for subjugating "lesser animals". For you to go vegetarian despite that means you made a decision independent of the moral guides presented to you through Christianity.

That's proof enough that you don't need religion to make moral decisions, nor is it fair to defend it because it contradicted itself in a way that made you second guess.

unovegan2 10-13-2015 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe (Post 3801705)
I agree that atheists aren't any more militant, but I do find the same personality traits among atheists as among religious folk, in that some of each group are hell bent on being right and in using ridicule and/or shaming tactics to make their respective points.

true

Capstan 10-13-2015 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogma (Post 3801897)
That's proof enough that you don't need religion to make moral decisions, nor is it fair to defend it because it contradicted itself in a way that made you second guess.

There is still no correlation between atheism and veg*nism, and it is likewise unfair to justify atheism, or to attack the faithful, on undemonstrated grounds. If everyone who has converted to atheism had likewise converted to veg*nism, there would be far more veg*ns in the world, but is this so? The question isn't, how many veg*ns are atheist, but, how many atheists are veg*n? Too few, I fear. Atheism is hardly a guarantee of moral rectitude. On the contrary, they can be just as nasty, aggressive, and mean-spirited as any Christian "soldier," and go needlessly out of their way to be bullying, hateful, and insulting. Neither religion nor lack of it accounts for the individuals' actions. Some people hide behind their atheism just as surely as some hide behind their religion. In my book, neither has a real concept of what justice is.

Sadrielle 10-13-2015 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogma (Post 3801897)
This. The meat industry and it's associates survive because you don't ask questions. So does religion.



I seriously doubt that was compelling enough to make all of your classmates go vegetarian with you. That's because the bible is all for subjugating "lesser animals". For you to go vegetarian despite that means you made a decision independent of the moral guides presented to you through Christianity.

That's proof enough that you don't need religion to make moral decisions, nor is it fair to defend it because it contradicted itself in a way that made you second guess.

Uhm.

If someone got the message that killing is bad, and that it extended to all living beings aside from humans from a scripture they studied, taught, and prepared for--and decided to apply it to their daily life--then that's great. Different sources prompt different reactions. Maybe they would have come to that idea in their own time, and yes, it's a mark of their character rather than the religion itself, but if said person wants to credit religion for being the switch the light bulb, then by all means, let them.


In regard to the topic...
My husband is an atheist, and while he believes that meat consumption should be cut back, he has absolutely no interest whatsoever in becoming vegetarian or vegan. In fact, he sort of views veganism a religion itself. And I happen to be a mormon (so not a "twue" christian) trying all of this out (only into my second or third week thus far) with no intentions of stopping anytime soon. I have wonder if it's because both vegans/vegetarians and atheists tend to be outspoken about their beliefs that the OP was beginning to notice this correlation? It's not one I've noticed myself, though I have seen a good number of spiritual vegan gurus during random youtube surfs.

Dogma 10-13-2015 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
There is still no correlation between atheism and veg*nism,

(O_O ) *blinks* I just made one. Right there. In fact I didn't even make it, Veganfitnessjunkie made it: People who recognize that they can be blind to something as obvious as what they eat, are more inclined to second guess themselves. That extends to religious beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
and it is likewise unfair to justify atheism, or to attack the faithful, on undemonstrated grounds.

(O_O ) ... Wat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
If everyone who has converted to atheism had likewise converted to veg*nism, there would be far more veg*ns in the world, but is this so?

(O_O ) What the hell are you talking about? I wasn't asserting that at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
The question isn't, how many veg*ns are atheist, but, how many atheists are veg*n?

That's not the topic title or opening post at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
Atheism is hardly a guarantee of moral rectitude.

No kidding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
On the contrary, they can be just as nasty, aggressive, and mean-spirited as any Christian "soldier," and go needlessly out of their way to be bullying, hateful, and insulting.

Well OBVIOUSLY, but you've got to give atheists a little credit, they haven't started a crusader war.

Yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
Neither religion nor lack of it accounts for the individuals' actions.

Of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
Some people hide behind their atheism just as surely as some hide behind their religion.

Now that line I'm not sure about. The figurative metaphor of "hiding behind religion" presents theists as presenting scriptures or traditions in defense of their faith. How do people HIDE behind their atheism? Are there really that many people getting irrationally defensive from behind copies of "Origin of Species"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
In my book, neither has a real concept of what justice is.

Not necessarily, no, because neither atheism or theism have anything to do with justice. What are we disagreeing over again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadrielle
If someone got the message that killing is bad, and that it extended to all living beings aside from humans from a scripture they studied, taught, and prepared for--and decided to apply it to their daily life--then that's great. Different sources prompt different reactions. Maybe they would have come to that idea in their own time, and yes, it's a mark of their character rather than the religion itself, but if said person wants to credit religion for being the switch the light bulb, then by all means, let them.

I will insofar as they can make the distinction between "got me thinking" and "convinced me".

Hitler is a great example of why you shouldn't be a racist, but I wouldn't "credit" him for that. Regardless, I was just making a general response for clarification. Bldudas, who I was responding to, didn't make it clear either way.

And to anyone who would like to skewer me over comparing religion to Hitler, you can email your complaints to:
[email protected] com

Capstan 10-13-2015 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bldudas (Post 3801785)
I left many websites because of the militant atheism.
I went vegetarian at first because of what I was taught at Sunday school about the no killing thing.

Many rail against religion, while knowing virtually nothing about it. They repeat what they've overheard, but have no experience of their own. Militarism and ignorance are married to each other. Attacking others is a sure sign of a mind full of holes.

Pirate Huntress 10-13-2015 09:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I was agnostic before going vegetarian. Now I am atheist.

leedsveg 10-14-2015 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan (Post 3802201)
Many rail against religion, while knowing virtually nothing about it. They repeat what they've overheard, but have no experience of their own. Militarism and ignorance are married to each other. Attacking others is a sure sign of a mind full of holes.

The 2014 Freedom Of Thought Report produced by the Internional Humanist and Ethical Union can perhaps help throw a little light on just who is attacking whom in a global context. LINK

mrgrimm 10-14-2015 04:25 AM

I feel strongly that there is a creator God of some kind, and seeing nature and the natural Earth as all of that beautiful creation. I don't really see the modern mega church building full of people all dressed up singing songs getting ready to pile into their SUV's afterwards to hit up the bar-b-Q joint as anything to do with God.

mr_falafel 10-14-2015 05:06 AM

I might be biased, but I think it's more admirable for an atheist to be vegetarian than for a religious person. We do it as a result of our own conscience and sense of doing right, not because we think it's what god wants, and will punish us otherwise!

roark 10-14-2015 05:17 AM

I think there is a correlation in the sense that the number of veg*ns has increased as well as the number of atheists over the last 50 years.
There is no denying that.
However, I'm not so certain that increase of the two is related.

However I would say that the increase in the amount of veg*ns is intrinsically associated with the increase in available information sources.

That said, I would also say that the increase in atheists is also intrinsically associated with the increase in available information sources.

I do not think that the number of atheists actively increases the number of vegans (or vice versa), but that they BOTH grow separately as more information becomes available.

My reason for this train of thought is that as research into science (physics/chemistry/universe etc) and media (zeitgeist etc) increase more detail, it does decreases the credibility of many religions - increasing atheism.
In the same breath, as research into science (examining health/environmental damage) and media (earthlings/cowspiracy/forks over knives etc) increase more people are finding veg*nism MORE credible.

So yeah, I would say they are correlated in the sense that they are both on the up. But not necessarily because of each other.

I would suggest that the increase of both topics is due to the increase of available information.


I fear this topic may drift more toward "Religion - and which is most compassionate". When it may just be that more people have become veg*n or atheist because they are simply surrounded by more sources of information.

Capstan 10-14-2015 06:46 AM

Moving this thread to the Compost Heap.

Dogma 10-14-2015 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
Many rail against religion, while knowing virtually nothing about it. They repeat what they've overheard, but have no experience of their own. Militarism and ignorance are married to each other. Attacking others is a sure sign of a mind full of holes.

*waves* Hey! Uh... Capstan? My post is uh... over here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_falafel
I might be biased, but I think it's more admirable for an atheist to be vegetarian than for a religious person. We do it as a result of our own conscience and sense of doing right, not because we think it's what god wants, and will punish us otherwise!

I THOUGHT Falafel was a pagan name!

Actually, that is indeed an interesting point. Many people cling to the idea that religion makes morality, and that without it they would lack any inhibitions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roark
I think there is a correlation in the sense that the number of veg*ns has increased as well as the number of atheists over the last 50 years.
There is no denying that.
However, I'm not so certain that increase of the two is related.

Like... at all, or necessarily?

Quote:

Originally Posted by roark
However I would say that the increase in the amount of veg*ns is intrinsically associated with the increase in available information sources.

That said, I would also say that the increase in atheists is also intrinsically associated with the increase in available information sources.

I do not think that the number of atheists actively increases the number of vegans (or vice versa), but that they BOTH grow separately as more information becomes available.

I agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roark
My reason for this train of thought is that as research into science (physics/chemistry/universe etc) and media (zeitgeist etc) increase more detail, it does decreases the credibility of many religions - increasing atheism.
In the same breath, as research into science (examining health/environmental damage) and media (earthlings/cowspiracy/forks over knives etc) increase more people are finding veg*nism MORE credible.

So yeah, I would say they are correlated in the sense that they are both on the up. But not necessarily because of each other.

Quoted for truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roark
I fear this topic may drift more toward "Religion - and which is most compassionate".

Really? I hope not.

Beautiful Joe 10-14-2015 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedsveg (Post 3802257)
The 2014 Freedom Of Thought Report produced by the Internional Humanist and Ethical Union can perhaps help throw a little light on just who is attacking whom in a global context. LINK

Undoubtedly atheists are attacked and/or discriminated against in many areas of the world.

However, what I have seen on internet discussion boards such as this one is people of faith being ridiculed on a pretty regular basis. Funnily enough, some of the people who do the ridiculing then go on in other threads to express their vehement beliefs in ghosts, the zodiac, etc.

It's unfortunate that those who look down on religion for, among other factors, alienating groups of people from each other, then turn around and useridicule and other alienating tactics against people of faith.

Again, I'm an atheist myself.

Capstan 10-14-2015 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe (Post 3802441)
Undoubtedly atheists are attacked and/or discriminated against in many areas of the world.

However, what I have seen on internet discussion boards such as this one is people of faith being ridiculed on a pretty regular basis. Funnily enough, some of the people who do the ridiculing then go on in other threads to express their vehement beliefs in ghosts, the zodiac, etc.

It's unfortunate that those who look down on religion for, among other factors, alienating groups of people from each other, then turn around and useridicule and other alienating tactics against people of faith.

Again, I'm an atheist myself.

Religion-bashing has become a popular form of sniping that serves little purpose, other than to further spread animosity in the world. Within the context of the internet, it's rather akin to hunting for blood-sport. When someone portrays all people of Faith as being the same, it is an act of pure bigotry, a pitiable state of affairs.

Dave in MPLS 10-14-2015 02:43 PM

Quote:

And I happen to be a mormon
Are you familiar with LDSVeg? I know nothing about them other than that they have a website, but you might find it interesting. http://www.ldsveg.org/index.htm

-------------------

I have a love/hate relationship with this topic, broadly speaking. SOOO difficult not to step on toes or inadvertently insult someone. And I get to be inadvertently insulted as well! Yaay! :)

I'll hew close to the OP's question for now ...

I agree with the folks above who see it as an artifact of the internet. This doesn't mean that there isn't or can't be one, but it isn't something I've noted IRL. Whatever correlation there is is obviously not a NECESSARY one, based on the many very prominent atheists that aren't vegetarians.

Historically, prominent vegetarians that were atheists include Henry Salt and Percy Shelley. Probably Mary Shelley (I don't know what she thought about theism). And then there was ... uh ... oh yeah ... um .... Yeah, remember where I said "no necessary" correlation? History would seem to bear that out. I do have info on one or two more (ancient Greek philosophers) but no one whose name sticks in my head. My knowledge is pretty sketchy outside "Western" culture. The 11th century Syrian poet al-Maarri was arguably a vegetarian.

A prominent contemporary figure arguing for a correlation between the two isms is Kim Socha. You might not know that name. Socha is a big fish in a small pool. I swim in that pool as well (critical animal studies), so I'm gonna go ahead and claim prominence for her :) Her book Animal Liberation and Atheism came out at the end of 2014

leedsveg 10-14-2015 04:16 PM

Went to hear Richard Dawkins give a talk in Leeds a few weeks ago. He spoke a lot about atheism but said nothing at all about veg*nism or animal rights. Make of that what you will. :serious:

karenlovessnow 10-14-2015 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_falafel (Post 3802281)
I might be biased, but I think it's more admirable for an atheist to be vegetarian than for a religious person. We do it as a result of our own conscience and sense of doing right, not because we think it's what god wants, and will punish us otherwise!


Biased, most likely. And quite a broad assumption. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dogma 10-14-2015 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capstan
Religion-bashing has become a popular form of sniping that serves little purpose, other than to further spread animosity in the world. Within the context of the internet, it's rather akin to hunting for blood-sport. When someone portrays all people of Faith as being the same, it is an act of pure bigotry, a pitiable state of affairs.

*waves again* Hey, how's it goin' over there?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.