No flesh since 99'

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 959
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Please don't take this as oversensitivity, but I am a relative newcomer to veganism and also this forum.
I think I will be speaking on behalf of many newcomers when I say that I will be far less likely to speak openly about topics and how I feel in future and its because I will be far too worried about coming across as you have said in this post. It's a shame because I would imagine there are many different types of people, from many different types of background who have joined this group for a variety of different reasons. Not just two groups. But by creating two such distinct groups and basing it on experience, your going to make people who have either just started on their journey, have posts few in number, or who have a relatively recent join date feel like their views and opinions might be seen as childish, oversensitive or dramatic. I would like to think that the threads were enough of a learning ground, where the newcomers overly passionate activism as you call it would become channelled into the most effective approach by the "oldtimers" as their experience, knowledge and wisdom would eventually influence the newcomers way of thinking. But I guess for now its back to not posting, and just reading what others say again, so I don't come across as uneducated.. I know you probably had the best intention when creating this thread, but by splitting the forum in two I cant help but feel you have potentially made the situation worse. |
Please don't take this as oversensitivity, but I am a relative newcomer to veganism and also this forum.
I think I will be speaking on behalf of many newcomers when I say that I will be far less likely to speak openly about topics and how I feel in future and its because I will be far too worried about coming across as you have said in this post. It's a shame because I would imagine there are many different types of people, from many different types of background who have joined this group for a variety of different reasons. Not just two groups. But by creating two such distinct groups and basing it on experience, your going to make people who have either just started on their journey, have posts few in number, or who have a relatively recent join date feel like their views and opinions might be seen as childish, oversensitive or dramatic. I would like to think that the threads were enough of a learning ground, where the newcomers overly passionate activism as you call it would become channelled into the most effective approach by the "oldtimers" as their experience, knowledge and wisdom would eventually influence the newcomers way of thinking. But I guess for now its back to not posting, and just reading what others say again, so I don't come across as uneducated.. I know you probably had the best intention when creating this thread, but by splitting the forum in two I cant help but feel you have potentially made the situation worse. |
Don't be too quick to judge, but encourage. The encouraging atmosphere here has definitely helped me to eventually make the switch. |
There have been a couple posts recently where I see a real disconnect between some members relatively new/curious about the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle/movement and those who have been veg/vegan for a very long time. I also see some potentially "explosive" points of potential misunderstanding where offense may be taken but was not intended. I'm certain others have been noticing it as well, so I figured I'd bring it up. A few recurrent things I have noticed:
Newcomers: - A tad on the "overly passionate" side in regards to activism - A tad on the defensive side/easily taking offense in terms of support and/or answers and/or opinions they are seeking and may not be hearing what they were hoping - Very clearly still quite traumatized by the new information they are learning and a bit sensitive in general to animal welfare issues (we've ALL been there) Old timers: - A bit "rough" on the newcomers - A lot jaded to the issues facing animals and/or vegetarians/vegans, have an arsenal of facts/opinions and have their debate points down pat - Very set in their stances/views on certain issues/topics (I'll admit, I know I can be a little too much "harsh" on the truth aspect and not enough delicate in the wording aspect) I don't think anyone on this forum is deliberately trying to offend or be rude or come across as overly sensitive or extremist, but I think there should be a open discussion about how to "shore up" the disconnect between long time vegetarians/vegans and new veg/vegans or those who are curious. I think it would be beneficial for everybody so information, opinions, advice and debates could be more beneficial and helpful to all (and try to keep misunderstandings to a minimum!) ![]() |
I'm an old timer. I've been a vegetarian for 20 years. I've gotten all types of comments. However, I'm also a realist, so I expect all types of comments from non-vegetarians/vegans. When I get these comments, I either (1) ignore the comment if it's coming from a truly ignorant person or (2) reply with a generic comment if I feel the person may just not know what they're saying.
You will lose the battle immediately if you argue with an ignorant person. For people that have open minds, discussions are great! There are two viewpoints in every argument. Of course, we think the one believe in is the better viewpoint, but the other person has the opposite belief. If we can discuss these issues like normal people, rather than making ignorant comments back and forth, maybe we can make some light bulbs go off in peoples' heads. The point of a discussion is to discuss. If we're so set in our ways that we can't even discuss, then why even join the conversation? Don't. It'll be better for everyone if you don't join in. I'd like to say that sometimes people get pretty darn defensive over an opinion. Or, they may state something in such a way that makes their opinion sound like fact, when it's just an opinion. Emotions play a big part in a lot of the comments and discussions on here. I saw this the other day, and it immediately made me think of some of the responses I've seen on here over the past few years. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but sometimes I personally think people go too far with their comments or their attempt at comparisons. ![]() |
I had a meateater post that cartoon on my facebook. I didn't think it was funny or nice either time.
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If you can't laugh at yourself, then how can you laugh at anybody else? I think people see the human side of you when you do that. -Payne Stewart
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I'm glad that that's all you took away from my post. Supports my point that people are too emotional on here. We need to learn to relax just a little with our responses. Otherwise, this community will just be a bunch of people who are all afraid to say anything lest we be judged by each other. (Or, we'll drive all the "newcomers" away and we won't have any new ideas or discussion. Frankly, some of the discussions on here get pretty repetitive.)
Also, we need to learn to laugh at ourselves. While this is a joke, it's also making a serious point. My initial reaction was similar to yours--I didn't think it was funny. However, the more I thought about it, the more I both (1) laughed at myself for sometimes getting too serious and (2) kept my own reactions in check regarding people's ignorant comments. ETA: Also, seriously? Calling someone a meateater in a derogatory manner? We're all humans, some just have differing opinions. Next time someone calls you a nickname that you don't like, just remember what you call others. |
to be a meat eater is a disgusting life choice and i do consider meat eaters to be lesser human beings !
i guess i'm one of those horrible crazy newcomers, huh? |
Maybe the individual in question was, in fact, a meat eater and was posting the comic to poke fun at vegetarians. That's how I read the post (and the comic.)
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I was using the term "meateater" as a fact, not an insult. They eat meat. What I meant by my post is that we vegans get insulted, questioned, ridiculed, etc IRL and on other places on the web all the time. This site is a refuge from the real world of 95% meateaters, and I don't love seeing non-funny cartoons making fun of vegans posted here. In our refuge.
If you think that is too "emotional", sorry to offend. I've been defending my, my son's, and my disabled husband's choices to be vegan for over a decade now. It gets old. |
to be a meat eater is a disgusting life choice and i do consider meat eaters to be lesser human beings !
i guess i'm one of those horrible crazy newcomers, huh? |
Well, when someone refers to "others", and especially those who are doing exactly what that same person was doing until very recently as "lesser", then I for one think that there's more ego than compassion at play.
I admit that I have little patience for those who use veg*nism simply as another scorecard to publicize their own superiority, and I also have little patience for dogmatists in any area of thinking/philosophy. Unfortunately, it's apparently a human trait to be especially prone to exhibiting those very traits when on is a recent convert to any cause, whether it is animal rights or religion, exercise, weight loss, etc. IME, the more a newbie to veg*nism exhibits these traits, the less staying power they seem to have. |
That's how I read it, too. But sometimes, we need to poke fun at ourselves. It's often hard to do that... Believe it or not, we, too, can go too far. It happens all too often. Part of the reason this thread was created.
Of course we get insulted, questioned, ridiculed. We get offended when this happens, sometimes rightly so, sometimes not. But, why do we then hand out this same insult, query, and ridicule right back to omnivores? There's a vicious cycle that needs to be broken. We can close our eyes and keep repeating the same argument over and over, but it'll be in vain. We can break the cycle. I've found myself saying the following a lot lately (at least to people that I have to deal with on a daily/semi-daily basis), "I understand your perspective, I don't agree with it, but I understand it." Just because I understand someone's viewpoint doesn't mean I have to agree with it. However, it helps me with future discussions, because I now know where they're coming from. A thorough counter-argument makes sense in discussions (as long as it's fair and objective), because it shows that you're a reasonable person that has considered both sides of the debate. It makes your argument stronger and more persuasive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended. But if you have to constantly defend your family's choices, you're doing something wrong. If this site is going to be a 'refuge' where we bash anyone and everything outside of our own view, then this site sure doesn't sound like a 'refuge' to me. . |
I understand your perspective, I don't agree with it, but I understand it.
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I find it to be much more complicated than that. True, "liberators" may help lab animals who are the offspring of domesticated species "escape" onto the streets of a major metropolitan city that is really a huge concrete jungle where the animals have no reasonable chance of survival on their own.
But it's much deeper and multi-dimensional. This cartoon, whether or not intended by the author, demonstrates the complete and utter lack of understanding of non-vegans who wonder aloud what would happen to all the cows if we stopped eating them. The inability of many people to visualize the long-term reduction in suffering that would result in a world in which cows are not raised for food is intertwined into this simple cartoon about a goldfish. They don't stop to ask where the goldfish came from, nor do they realize that this particular fish exists only because a human being bred the fish in captivity for the purpose of financial profit. They merely look at the goldfish in the current moment and decide that keeping the fish in a small bowl is the best option available, because "any life is better than no life." |
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