Do people think that Vegan males are effeminate? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-08-2015, 01:13 AM
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Do people think that Vegan males are effeminate?

Are they (no offense guys)?
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#2 Old 08-08-2015, 03:40 AM
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Dude, what?
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#3 Old 08-08-2015, 05:20 AM
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Mod Post- I've changed the title of this thread, for being socially inappropriate. In future, please be more careful, SilverCat, about your choice of words.

***

To answer your question, I'm of the opinion that anyone who has that point of view cannot be regarded as actually "thinking." Whatever they're doing, it's something else. Bigotry? Who cares what they think?
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#4 Old 08-08-2015, 06:45 AM
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I wonder now what the original thread title was.

Either way...

Quote:
Do people think that Vegan males are effeminate?
Generally speaking? ...Yes and No.

The vegetarian stereotype is:
<stereotype>Only women, emotional creatures as they are, will become vegetarians out of love for the poor animals.

Men, who hunt and fish and are very manly will not become vegetarians. Men who care for the lesser animals and become vegetarians are not very manly and therefore must be gay. Rock solid logic.
</stereotype>

The vegan stereotype is:
<stereotype>Women who are not content in the size of their fortress of moral superiority may upgrade their fortress to vegan levels. Women who do this must be frigid up there and therefore should not be dated because they'll try to change you.

Vegan men do not exist. At all. They are a myth. However vegan women are known to speak such legends and often dream of one day discovering a vegan male of her very own.
</stereotype>


Stereotypes aside, I must admit I find these frequent SilverCat question threads very... insecure...

Last edited by Dogma; 08-08-2015 at 06:47 AM.
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#5 Old 08-08-2015, 07:34 AM
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I would say that a lot of those "hardcore meat eater" types do feel vegan males are either "effeminate" or make incorrect assumptions about their sexual preferences based solely on the fact they are veg/vegan. There are plenty of men (and even some women) out there who think fruits and vegetables and nuts and seeds are "women food" and that "REAL men eat meat" because only women are "sissy"/emotional enough care about animals, the environment and their health (being the "weaker sex" and all you know). I grew up around those 'types' so I have a pretty good grasp of how they tick. Good thing I was a girl or it would have been 10X as bad for me. My husband, who is an omni and still eats meat, gets ridiculed by some of my family for even TRYING vegetarian/vegan foods (i.e. "girly rabbit food") instead of demanding I cook him meat 7 nights a week. And yes, they would assume a man who voluntarily chooses vegetarianism or veganism was sexually attracted to other men (which they perceive to be insulting and shameful) strictly because he felt compassion for animals, cared about the environment and/or valued his health. Why do they feel this way? Because it's been beaten into them through the generations and by the church that these things are "wrong" and they sadly have no capacity to think for themselves.

I'm by NO MEANS suggesting that is the right way to think, just merely acknowledging this mindset is out there and unfortunately not that rare to encounter. Not all omnis are like that, but theres enough of them to cause problems. Gotta grow a thick skin when you go against societies standards and be prepared for hateful people to judge, ridicule, turn things into insults that aren't even insulting (at least I don't personally find sexual preferences an insult, some people do though) and try to antagonize you into conforming to what THEY feel is right. The world is not a nice place and never will be. Lots of people are full of bitterness and hate (or are just plain narcissistic sociopaths), and the rest of us have to learn to tune them out or we will be dragged back into the dark ages way of thinking with them
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Last edited by Kiwibird08; 08-08-2015 at 07:36 AM.
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#6 Old 08-08-2015, 07:57 AM
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Well spoken, Kiwibird08.

I'm surprised you think it's 10 times worse for guys though.
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#7 Old 08-08-2015, 08:04 AM
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Hi Silvercat,

It's OK if you want to practice your vegetarianism privately. Although I've been a vegan for 24 years, I rarely mention it to anyone (outside of this forum).

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#8 Old 08-08-2015, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogma View Post
I wonder now what the original thread title was.



Stereotypes aside, I must admit I find these frequent SilverCat question threads very... insecure...
dude, chill. If you do not like to answer, then please do not. No one is forcing you, you know. This is not the first time you've been whining like this.

Last edited by SilverCat; 08-08-2015 at 08:11 AM.
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#9 Old 08-08-2015, 08:10 AM
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i think it's more admirable to NOT eat defenseless animals.

i recently met a man at a vegan meet-up. he was not particularly interesting or attractive to me but i thought, at least he is a vegan and that is something to build on.

so i met him again. he chose a gathering that offered free food.

when i saw him take a bite of a chicken sandwich i got totally turned off. he said, "it doesn't count if it's free."

blech. no thanks. let somebody else deal with it. life is too short.
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#10 Old 08-08-2015, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwibird08 View Post
I would say that a lot of those "hardcore meat eater" types do feel vegan males are either "effeminate" or make incorrect assumptions about their sexual preferences based solely on the fact they are veg/vegan. There are plenty of men (and even some women) out there who think fruits and vegetables and nuts and seeds are "women food" and that "REAL men eat meat" because only women are "sissy"/emotional enough care about animals, the environment and their health (being the "weaker sex" and all you know). I grew up around those 'types' so I have a pretty good grasp of how they tick. Good thing I was a girl or it would have been 10X as bad for me. My husband, who is an omni and still eats meat, gets ridiculed by some of my family for even TRYING vegetarian/vegan foods (i.e. "girly rabbit food") instead of demanding I cook him meat 7 nights a week. And yes, they would assume a man who voluntarily chooses vegetarianism or veganism was sexually attracted to other men (which they perceive to be insulting and shameful) strictly because he felt compassion for animals, cared about the environment and/or valued his health. Why do they feel this way? Because it's been beaten into them through the generations and by the church that these things are "wrong" and they sadly have no capacity to think for themselves.

I'm by NO MEANS suggesting that is the right way to think, just merely acknowledging this mindset is out there and unfortunately not that rare to encounter. Not all omnis are like that, but theres enough of them to cause problems. Gotta grow a thick skin when you go against societies standards and be prepared for hateful people to judge, ridicule, turn things into insults that aren't even insulting (at least I don't personally find sexual preferences an insult, some people do though) and try to antagonize you into conforming to what THEY feel is right. The world is not a nice place and never will be. Lots of people are full of bitterness and hate (or are just plain narcissistic sociopaths), and the rest of us have to learn to tune them out or we will be dragged back into the dark ages way of thinking with them
Excellent. A great answer. Thanks.
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#11 Old 08-08-2015, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dogma View Post
Well spoken, Kiwibird08.

I'm surprised you think it's 10 times worse for guys though.
Well (not to rile the feminists on the forum) women get the "benefit" of being viewed as the weaker sex, who are more "emotionally fragile" by the types who would hold these ignorant viewpoints. When a woman learns of how animals are tortured in factory farms, it is more acceptable because she is "fragile" and unable to "cope" with "harsh" life facts. Men are not "suppose" to "succumb" to their emotions the same way women do because "men are strong" and "leaders". In fact, IMO, eating dead flesh is looked at as a dominance "feed my ego" thing by these hyper alpha-male types and it has very little to do with them feeling it is actually superior nourishment. They do not understand why other males do not want to feel power and control in the same way they experience it (through consumption of flesh of "weaker" or "lesser" beings), so they assume those men are more like how they perceive women.

I think ALL vegetarians and vegans are met with ridicule, but I definitely think men who are have much more negativity to deal with than women (in general) because of these dominance-minded alpha males who don't understand males can say "that is wrong" about something society as a whole accepts too.

"The reward for conformity is that everyone likes you but yourself"
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#12 Old 08-08-2015, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuberail View Post
i think it's more admirable to NOT eat defenseless animals.

i recently met a man at a vegan meet-up. he was not particularly interesting or attractive to me but i thought, at least he is a vegan and that is something to build on.

so i met him again. he chose a gathering that offered free food.

when i saw him take a bite of a chicken sandwich i got totally turned off. he said, "it doesn't count if it's free."

blech. no thanks. let somebody else deal with it. life is too short.
Yuck! What a turn off.

Kiwi -- Your comment wouldn't rile any feminists because we've been saying the same thing for decades. The "macho man" stereotype is incredibly damaging, as is the idea that compassion is a form of weakness and that weakness is a feminine attribute.

Last edited by no whey jose; 08-08-2015 at 08:34 AM.
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#13 Old 08-08-2015, 08:30 AM
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I really think it depends on what part of the world you are in, and the kind of culture/s immediately surrounding you.

For me, no. I've never witnessed that kind of attitude towards male vegetarians or vegans. Not socially, at college or in a working environment. A gentleman in his early sixties mentioned he was vegetarian in a very traditional male environment recently, no-one raised an eyebrow.

But I think to be fair the UK is a different world to some parts of the US, at least from what I read on here. Although you will find exclusive 'meat and two veg' habits retained among some older people (particularly in traditional working class communities), we're no-where near as meat and dairy focused in our diets as it seems those in the US are. Quorn and vegetarian alternatives have been successfully marketed as 'healthy foods' in the last twenty years, and have really hit the mainstream.

Low income working class areas, with corresponding lower levels of education, may be less progressive in terms of attitudes about diet but you will probably find that more traditional ideas about masculinity and femininity (roles, dress, behaviour) overall are retained more strongly in such areas.
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#14 Old 08-08-2015, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogma View Post
Stereotypes aside, I must admit I find these frequent SilverCat question threads very... insecure...
Let's see, Dogma calls SilverCat insecure, which is a personal attack. Personal attacks are against our rules. Dogma, if you cannot post, without resorting to this sort of accusation, stay out of the thread.

Quote:
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dude, chill. If you do not like to answer, then please do not. No one is forcing you, you know. This is not the first time you've been whining like this.
SilverCat responds by calling Dogma a whiner. SilverCat, in future, please report such infractions to the mods, so we can handle it, rather than responding in kind. Any further name-calling will result in those posts being removed.

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Last edited by Capstan; 08-08-2015 at 08:39 AM.
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#15 Old 08-08-2015, 08:45 AM
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#16 Old 08-08-2015, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika View Post
I really think it depends on what part of the world you are in, and the kind of culture/s immediately surrounding you.

For me, no. I've never witnessed that kind of attitude towards male vegetarians or vegans. Not socially, at college or in a working environment. A gentleman in his early sixties mentioned he was vegetarian in a very traditional male environment recently, no-one raised an eyebrow.
It may be where you live, but it also may be that bigots have wised up to all this social media and how one slip could be very damaging to their careers/businesses and reputations. Even though very few people agree with PC culture, the vast majority fear it. Imagine is a male business owner made a derogatory comment in public to a vegan man and that vegan man went and posted "Johnny who owns Johnny's xyz store said I was a *** for being vegan". Being today was a slow news day, a couple new channels/sites pick the story up and it just explodes. All of a sudden, millions of people from all around the world are calling for this man to be burned at the proverbial stake for insulting vegans and (whomever else he compared vegans to). Now all of Johnny's customers/friends/family (even ones who agree) are afraid to be called out on the global stage too and fear being associated with him, so his business folds and he's left as a social outcast pretty much overnight.

Anyone with half a brain keeps their TRUE opinions to themselves these days about any minority group they don't like. It doesn't mean he doesn't still feel vegan men are (insert your own insult here) nor that he doesn't make fun of them privately with like-minded friends, but he certainly isn't going to make that known publicly! They may make fun of family or family friends or other people they are certain wouldn't "tell". They still cause strife too because they network with other like minded people and theres still an underlying hatred for groups of all types who don't fit the societal norm. It's very difficult to get a gauge on people these days because very few actually speak their minds PUBLICLY for fear of mass shunning (even though most of the masses doing the shunning actually agree with the "offensive" viewpoint!).

"The reward for conformity is that everyone likes you but yourself"
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#17 Old 08-08-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Spudulika View Post
I really think it depends on what part of the world you are in, and the kind of culture/s immediately surrounding you.
.
I reckon.
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#18 Old 08-08-2015, 09:12 AM
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It may be where you live, but it also may be that bigots have wised up to all this social media and how one slip could be very damaging to their careers/businesses and reputations. Even though very few people agree with PC culture, the vast majority fear it. Imagine is a male business owner made a derogatory comment in public to a vegan man and that vegan man went and posted "Johnny who owns Johnny's xyz store said I was a *** for being vegan". Being today was a slow news day, a couple new channels/sites pick the story up and it just explodes. All of a sudden, millions of people from all around the world are calling for this man to be burned at the proverbial stake for insulting vegans and (whomever else he compared vegans to). Now all of Johnny's customers/friends/family (even ones who agree) are afraid to be called out on the global stage too and fear being associated with him, so his business folds and he's left as a social outcast pretty much overnight.

Anyone with half a brain keeps their TRUE opinions to themselves these days about any minority group they don't like. It doesn't mean he doesn't still feel vegan men are (insert your own insult here) nor that he doesn't make fun of them privately with like-minded friends, but he certainly isn't going to make that known publicly! They may make fun of family or family friends or other people they are certain wouldn't "tell". They still cause strife too because they network with other like minded people and theres still an underlying hatred for groups of all types who don't fit the societal norm. It's very difficult to get a gauge on people these days because very few actually speak their minds PUBLICLY for fear of mass shunning (even though most of the masses doing the shunning actually agree with the "offensive" viewpoint!).
Are there people who hide the fact that they are Vegan ?

Last edited by SilverCat; 08-08-2015 at 09:17 AM.
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#19 Old 08-08-2015, 09:18 AM
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Because this subject is primarily about social mores, rather than veganism itself, the thread is being moved to the General Discussion Forum, to the Compost Heap.

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#20 Old 08-08-2015, 09:25 AM
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Are there people who hide the fact that they are Vegan ?
Probably, I tend not to bring it up without good reason. I was more talking about the people who hide the fact they have offensive, bigoted opinions about vegans for fear of being shamed though.

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#21 Old 08-08-2015, 09:30 AM
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I have no idea why people thought this was inappropriate. This was a fair question and was not judgemental. I live in a pretty open minded area and I don't think people really care. I am not sure how people would even know you are vegan or vegetarian. The only way people know that I am vegetarian is if I place an order at a restaurant and they ask me.
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#22 Old 08-08-2015, 09:34 AM
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I have no idea why people thought this was inappropriate. This was a fair question and was not judgemental.
You must have missed the original question. The word "effeminate" wasn't involved.
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#23 Old 08-08-2015, 12:52 PM
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I think yes, to a certain extent. If compassion and caring for animals is seen as feminine( I think it does) then vegans obviously fall under that category.
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#24 Old 08-08-2015, 01:13 PM
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This view exists, but it angers me when people think this way. You don't have to kill things to be masculine.
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#25 Old 08-08-2015, 10:00 PM
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then......again it depends on the individual person's personality. I was looking through and found vegan Body builders, and MMA fighters. They are definitely not effeminate. Not the MMA fighter at least
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#26 Old 08-09-2015, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwibird08
Well (not to rile the feminists on the forum) women get the "benefit" of being viewed as the weaker sex, who are more "emotionally fragile" by the types who would hold these ignorant viewpoints. When a woman learns of how animals are tortured in factory farms, it is more acceptable because she is "fragile" and unable to "cope" with "harsh" life facts. Men are not "suppose" to "succumb" to their emotions the same way women do because "men are strong" and "leaders". In fact, IMO, eating dead flesh is looked at as a dominance "feed my ego" thing by these hyper alpha-male types and it has very little to do with them feeling it is actually superior nourishment. They do not understand why other males do not want to feel power and control in the same way they experience it (through consumption of flesh of "weaker" or "lesser" beings), so they assume those men are more like how they perceive women.

I think ALL vegetarians and vegans are met with ridicule, but I definitely think men who are have much more negativity to deal with than women (in general) because of these dominance-minded alpha males who don't understand males can say "that is wrong" about something society as a whole accepts too.
I agree, but I would append the fact the many women also self-impose those same stereotypes and perpetuate them as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
But I think to be fair the UK is a different world to some parts of the US, at least from what I read on here.
'Progressive' is a good word to describe society in some parts of the UK. London is very different from rural Scotland in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan
Let's see, Dogma calls SilverCat insecure, which is a personal attack. Personal attacks are against our rules. Dogma, if you cannot post, without resorting to this sort of accusation, stay out of the thread.
I was just making an observation that perhaps SilverCat had an answer for, I wasn't intending to ignite anything. To be fair I could have chosen my words better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCat
Are there people who hide the fact that they are Vegan ?
David3 said he barely mentions it to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCat
I was looking through and found vegan Body builders, and MMA fighters. They are definitely not effeminate.
They're by no means mainsteam either. You may find one or two exceptions, but I doubt they exist without criticism or a significantly more popular competitor.

Last edited by Dogma; 08-09-2015 at 05:50 AM.
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#27 Old 08-09-2015, 02:03 AM
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I have honestly never come across this one. I have known as many male vegetarians as I have female ... and I can't remember anyone (at least not in my circle of friends) calling vegetarian food 'girly'. Also judging someone's masculinity or lack there of based on what's on their plate is sort of strange.

The closest I have experienced is that I know some ladies who use their husband/boyfriend/partner as an excuse to not go vegetarian (i.e. I would love to go veggie but my man just could not live without meat) - but that's more about a different sort of gender stereotyping (woman make food man eat it ...).
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#28 Old 08-09-2015, 03:26 AM
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Majority of my friends, if not all of them, think vegetarianism and veganism is for 'women'. They make jokes about it quite a bit. It's their way of saying that it's a 'weak' choice.

As a feminist, I take issue with that. To be feminine, no matter where you are on the gender spectrum, is not equal to being weak. It's simply to be 'feminine' which just a set of characteristics we decided to attribute to women, to prove how different they were from men.

Personally, I thought all vegetarian men WERE effeminate, but that was before I met one who is decidedly not. Since then I take the view that it's entirely possible for there to be male vegetarians and vegans who are effeminate. But there's others who aren't. Neither one is a bad thing to be.

TL;DR: Anyone who starts a sentence with "All veg*ns are...." and doesn't end it with something to do with what we do and don't eat/wear/use, is probably just generalising about things to a stupid degree.
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#29 Old 08-09-2015, 03:59 AM
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There are two types of people I think.

1.They were born effeminate and became vegetarian anyway. Doesn't matter they are veg or not, they are that way anyway.

2. A Macho man becomes a veg and that made him effeminate (over the time).


1 st one is understandable.

Does the 2nd thing happen?
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#30 Old 08-09-2015, 04:14 AM
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Ok, what the hell is going on in here?
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