George W. Bush's legacy and other observations - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-01-2004, 07:46 PM
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It occured to me that GW's lasting legacy will be that he committed America to an eternal war. (e.g. Israel and Palistinians...Catholics and Protestents in Ireland).



He has solidified a continued, perpetual justification for increases in the military budget (at the expense of other government dept. and programs) (e.g. gen X and Y's manditory retirement age will be 97)



Of course he did it for oil and other business interests. But that's beside the point...



IMO we will be so entrenched in the Middle East, no future president will dare pull out. (and it's this entrenchment that will fuel the jihad) The only thing Kerry will do is encourage more nations to commit troops. We'll still be there regardless. I hate the thought of people dying in a war that could have been avoided (or at least approached differently) ..Say a dozen covert special forces troops and some plastic explosives....



Other thoughts...



Bush said (in reference to John Edward's "lack of experience") that "Chenny could be President". Well this got me thinking... Most people would agree that the Presidency is a stressfull job. Chenny is an older man who is obese and has heart problems. Would anyone think that it would be a good idea to put an obese person with heart problems in the White House?



IMO Teresa Heinz is a "control freak"

The Kerrys and Edwards were about to pose for a photo-op. A reporter caught a picture of Teresa reaching for Edward's son who had his thumb in his mouth. That bugged me. So what if the little child was sucking his thumb...



Kerry is a smooth talker, and I have difficulty trusting him. (I didn't vote for him in the primaries) The problem is, I trust the people who pull Bush's strings even less.



IMO the Electoral College is broken and should be eliminated. I was told years ago that only once in history the electoral college vote didn't coincide with the popular vote. Well, with the 2000 election, lighting struck twice. It's time for the gov't to stop playing games and ensure that the person elected president, is the one the majority voted for. A .005 majority, is still a MAJORITY.



A democracy should consist of more than two major parties. The two party sytem makes politicians (both Reps and Dems) lazy and unresponsive to the public. ...If I had a 50% chance of winning the lottery, I would play it agressively it too. Yes, I know there are technically more than two political parties in the US, but if the don't get any air time, they are effectively non-existant.



I will be at the polls on 11/02/04 at 6AM. Please do the same in your location.



Please forgive my spelling, I know it's horrible.



My 2 cents,



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Happiness is not the result of a mathematical equation comparing the good times and bad times someone has had. It is a state of mind.
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#2 Old 08-01-2004, 08:53 PM
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This pretty much sums it up:



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I sit here day after day wondering whom in the world these 47% of the people are in this country that can still sit there and support the worst President in modern history. What does George W. Bush offer us anymore? What has he ever offered? I know he promised to be uniter, not a divider and then proceeded to be the most polarizing President ever. I know he promised to return integrity back to the White House and then proceeded to treat the American people and the Constitution as his own personal blue dress. When you look back over these past three and a half years, what can he sell to you? Fear. All Bush has left to sell, is fear itself.



Ironically, George W. Bush shows us his deficiencies, when he tries to talk about what he views as his successes. Yesterday, in Springfield Mo. , Bush touted his record of legislative and military results, talking about his tax cuts, education agenda, and improvements to homeland security. What?? Bush has had three and half years to come up with a domestic agenda; unfortunately, he only found the time to develop one for Iraq . If he wants to run on this record, BRING IT ON.



Bushs tax cuts were a lie when they were contrived and have crippled the economy since being enacted. Even the most ardent Bush supporter if they are truly conservative will have to admit as much. You cannot spend at the reckless rate that Bush does, fight a war on multiple fronts, and hand back so much money in tax cuts. What it does is drive up the debt, and eventually we all pay more money in other areas. The fact is that this tax cut does little to help middle class families and the majority of the money goes to the top 1% of this country. This tax cut was not for us; it was for whom Bush refers to as his base. The most frightening thing is that Bush is obviously proud of his tax cut for the filthy rich, which has led to this horrific economy. Proud of it! This is what you need to know about the Bush economy:



GW Bush will be the first President since Herbert Hoover to reign over a net loss of jobs.



Make sure you digest that. This means that Bush has lost more jobs, than he has created. I might add that this is by a lot, as Bush has lost over a million more jobs then he has created. Herbert Hoover was President when the Great Depression hit, so we understand why he had a net loss of jobs. How in the world can any reasonable person run proudly on this record? The fact the he does only speaks to the gall that George Bush possesses, and the complete lack of respect he has for all Americans.



Education agenda?? What education agenda. Oh thats right it had a snazzy title, what was it again



No WMD were left behind?



No child left undrafted?



No funding left to spend on education



Unfortunately, the last one is no joke. After touting no child left behind, President Bush has left it so under-funded, that it is virtually useless. President Bush has no education plan, successes, or future. It is so disingenuous to wait 3.5 years, six months before an election and then pretend to be an education President. Sadly, President Bush left his education policy behind, 3.5 years ago.



Improvements to homeland security?? We havent moved below the elevated magenta alert AT ALL DURING THIS PRESIDENCY. It has gone up, but it has never gone down. How is that viewed as a success? Just last month, this administration told us that al Qaeda is planning major operations within the US , possibly to disrupt our elections. The administration had no idea who, what, where, when, or how, but hey, they know essentially something bad is going to happen, somewhere, somehow, eventually. Yet, despite these ominous threats, Bush wants you to believe that he has improved homeland security? There have been infinitely more terrorist threats during Bushs presidency than in many, many years before. We are not safer than before Bush, we are far more exposed. Bushs go-it-alone policies also contribute to the fact that terrorist activities have increased during his presidency.



If these are the successes Bush wants us to focus on, then that must mean these are the best parts of his record. The rest of it, is even worse. He cannot run on the environment, because Bush is by far the worst environmental President in history. He has gutted almost all of the progress we had made in the past twenty years. When scientists do not agree with his ideology, he fires them and appoints yes-men. As Kerry pointed out yesterday, Bush simply does not believe in science. The most despicable thing is that he uses clever catch phrases for his legislation, which is the opposite of what the legislation actually does. Thus the Healthy Forests initiative, actually should be called no tree left behind, because it is simply a boon to the logging industry. The Clear Skies Initiative actually increases the amount of pollution. This is only the beginning of the Bush environmental legacy.



He cannot run on his protection of the constitution, as the patriot act has stripped us of the basic provisions of the Bill of Rights. In George W. Bushs America , it is ok for a President to declare any citizen an enemy combatant, without offering proof, and hold them indefinitely, without counsel. In George W. Bushs America , it is ok for law enforcement to watch your email, library book transactions, and Internet traffic, without cause, or warrants. Bush has set the tone, and that tone is that we should be very afraid. It is why police officers think it is ok to pepper spray a girl who had the temerity to talk on a cell phone during a movie. It is why a guard in Niagara Falls thinks it is acceptable to bludgeon an innocent Chinese tourist. It is the tone that Bush wants in his America .



The tone is fear. It is all that George W. Bush has left to run on. He cannot run on his record. His record is one of ignoring the American people, not funding education, gutting the environment, blowing up two third world countries, torturing men women and children and thinking international law does not apply to us, alienating our former allies, circumventing the constitution, tax cuts for his rich friends, a crippled economy, net loss of jobs, the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame for political revenge, lies about WMD, lies about Saddam and al Qaeda, lies about almost everything, Halliburton and billions upon billions of dollars in crony capitalism and a terror chart that has no real function other than to keep us scared.



That is because fear is all he has left to run on. George W. Bush cannot win, if you are unafraid. His only hope is to prey upon your fears. In Springfield Mo. Yesterday, President Bush said, results matter. I agree Mr. President, but you dont have any to stand on. We need to be very careful as we head down the stretch toward Election Day. It is the Bush administration in charge of the terror. If his poll numbers slip too much, we will invariably hear about chatter which is so non-specific that it shouldnt even be related to us except for the fact that its actual purpose is not to warn, it is just to scare. A scared citizen, will vote for Bush. An educated citizen, who does not fear, will see Bushs record for what it is, appalling. Dont be afraid America . George W. Bush is a used car salesman. His product is fear. I am just not interested in buying it anymore.



http://www.opednews.com/wade_080104_bush_fear.htm
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#3 Old 08-01-2004, 09:04 PM
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IMO Teresa Heinz is a "control freak"

The Kerrys and Edwards were about to pose for a photo-op. A reporter caught a picture of Teresa reaching for Edward's son who had his thumb in his mouth. That bugged me. So what if the little child was sucking his thumb...



How does this make her a control freak? Not wanting a child to suck his thumb in a published photo makes one a control freak? So when a family goes to a photo studio and the mom pulls her kid's thumb out of its mouth before having the portrait taken, is she now a control freak?



Sometimes I'm astounded at how much people hate women in high-profile positions and will do as much as possible to discredit them as human beings.



Oh, and as final thoughts... I'm not fully convinced that Bush went into Iraq purely for business reasons. There is a lot of $ to be made in the family's relationship with the Saudis as well. I have a hunch that the royal Saudi family had some pretty strong influence in getting Bush to invade Iraq & depose Saddam.



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#4 Old 08-01-2004, 09:21 PM
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I don't get this:



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GW Bush will be the first President since Herbert Hoover to reign over a net loss of jobs.



Make sure you digest that. This means that Bush has lost more jobs, than he has created. I might add that this is by a lot, as Bush has lost over a million more jobs then he has created.



How are people making the link that Bush is responsible for these job losses? Did Bush make the corporate decisions for Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc to ship thousands of jobs overseas or eliminate unneeded positions?



How is Bush any more responsible for this than, say, Alan Greenspan? And why can't people seem to make the connection that the irresponsible growth in the tech boom would only lead to the readjustments we're seeing now?



Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to get Bush out of office. But some of these claims just don't make sense to me. The claims that Bush is responsible for all this corporate downsizing just don't hold water.



amy
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#5 Old 08-01-2004, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

He has solidified a continued, perpetual justification for increases in the military budget (at the expense of other government dept. and programs) (e.g. gen X and Y's manditory retirement age will be 97)



Yes. It was all him. I mean after 9/11, everyone was looking to cut defense spending. Oh, wait...



Quote:
IMO we will be so entrenched in the Middle East, no future president will dare pull out. (and it's this entrenchment that will fuel the jihad) The only thing Kerry will do is encourage more nations to commit troops. We'll still be there regardless. I hate the thought of people dying in a war that could have been avoided (or at least approached differently) ..Say a dozen covert special forces troops and some plastic explosives....



Uh, we weren't entrenched already? Look, the ME has a lot of influence on the world economy, Bush or not, we are going to be heavily invested there.

Oh, and your last sentence is just a hoot.



Quote:
IMO Teresa Heinz is a "control freak"

The Kerrys and Edwards were about to pose for a photo-op. A reporter caught a picture of Teresa reaching for Edward's son who had his thumb in his mouth. That bugged me. So what if the little child was sucking his thumb...



Egads. She wanted a child to look presentable in an important picture.



Quote:
IMO the Electoral College is broken and should be eliminated. I was told years ago that only once in history the electoral college vote didn't coincide with the popular vote. Well, with the 2000 election, lighting struck twice. It's time for the gov't to stop playing games and ensure that the person elected president, is the one the majority voted for. A .005 majority, is still a MAJORITY.



Broken? It worked as designed. You may not like the result and want a different system, but it is not "broken."



A little FYI about past preseidential elections.



Four Presidents have been elected without a plurality of popular votes:

John Quincy Adams - trailed Andrew Jackson by 44,804 votes in the 1824 election

Rutherford B. Hayes - trailed Samuel J. Tilden by 264,292 votes in the 1876 election

Benjamin Harrison - trailed Grover Cleveland 95,713 votes in the 1888 election

George W. Bush - trailed Al Gore by 540,520 votes in the 2000 election





Source: http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/P/P...ted-States.htm



Now, in a couple of cases, there was not a majority in the electoral vote either, forcing a vote by the House. Regardless, 4 US Presidents (just under 10%) have been elected without having a majority of the popular vote.



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A democracy should consist of more than two major parties. The two party sytem makes politicians (both Reps and Dems) lazy and unresponsive to the public. ...If I had a 50% chance of winning the lottery, I would play it agressively it too. Yes, I know there are technically more than two political parties in the US, but if the don't get any air time, they are effectively non-existant.



I would argue that only two parties forces candidates to play to the middle of the electorate and pay less attention to the extremists.
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#6 Old 08-01-2004, 09:46 PM
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How are people making the link that Bush is responsible for these job losses? Did Bush make the corporate decisions for Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc to ship thousands of jobs overseas or eliminate unneeded positions?





Keep in mind, many of these same people blame Bush for Enron's "cooking the books", even though that started under Clinton.
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#7 Old 08-02-2004, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by OregonAmy View Post


How are people making the link that Bush is responsible for these job losses? Did Bush make the corporate decisions for Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc to ship thousands of jobs overseas or eliminate unneeded positions?

amy



Corporations who do that are rewarded in the form of tax relief.
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#8 Old 08-02-2004, 03:41 AM
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More info here: http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconomy...s03312004a.cfm



Kerry on the other hand does not support that: http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/
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#9 Old 08-02-2004, 04:00 AM
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From the above cited article, these are some pretty disturbing situations:



Quote:
Just last month, this administration told us that al Qaeda is planning major operations within the US , possibly to disrupt our elections. The administration had no idea who, what, where, when, or how, but hey, they know essentially something bad is going to happen, somewhere, somehow, eventually.



Just in time to cancel and postpone the upcoming election. Yay!



Quote:
Bush has lost more jobs, than he has created. I might add that this is by a lot, as Bush has lost over a million more jobs then he has created.



Gee, wasn't making the wealthiest Americans more wealthy supposed to create jobs?



Quote:
He cannot run on his protection of the constitution, as the patriot act has stripped us of the basic provisions of the Bill of Rights. In George W. Bushs America , it is ok for a President to declare any citizen an enemy combatant, without offering proof, and hold them indefinitely, without counsel. In George W. Bushs America , it is ok for law enforcement to watch your email, library book transactions, and Internet traffic, without cause, or warrants.



Woo, hoo, that is exciting! So, we go to war in Iraq to bring them "freedom", yet we are loosing ours.



Quote:
I sit here day after day wondering whom in the world these 47% of the people are in this country that can still sit there and support the worst President in modern history.



Maybe they think they will be joining the ranks of the top 1% of wealthiest Americans that the Bush agenda benfits sometime soon. On the other hand, It could be that they watched a little too much Fox News war coverage.
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#10 Old 08-02-2004, 04:58 AM
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Has anyone read "The President Of Good & Evil: The Ethics of George W. Bush" by Peter Singer?



It's a very interesting read.
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#11 Old 08-02-2004, 05:09 AM
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Has anyone read "The President Of Good & Evil: The Ethics of George W. Bush" by Peter Singer?



It's a very interesting read.



i havent, ill check it out though
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#12 Old 08-02-2004, 05:23 AM
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There are a lot of reviews posted here in regards to that book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...21661?v=glance



Looks interesting.
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#13 Old 08-02-2004, 07:48 AM
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Corporations who do that are rewarded in the form of tax relief.





It's not tax relief. They are taking advantage of tax laws, put into effect well before Bush was in office, related to the location of expenses and sources of income in the corporate structure.
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#14 Old 08-02-2004, 08:19 AM
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Oh...more opinions about George W. Bush. Great! I was worried there wouldn't be anything new on here today.



B
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#15 Old 08-02-2004, 08:21 AM
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I'm so tired of hearing about Bush throwing our economy in the dumper. I moved to my current location in the last two years of the Clinton administration. We were one of 4 houses in an undeveloped edition annexed by the city. No one was building, my pay was the same, my husband received no bonus for that whole remaining time. About 5 or 6 months after Bush took office, we both got pay raises, bonuses, a fat check back from the government, houses started popping up like popcorn (now about 35) and still going, and it looks like every other house for three streets down has a new car in the drive. Don't try to sell the Bush=poverty stupidity to me or anyone else who lives in the *real*world.
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#16 Old 08-02-2004, 08:25 AM
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It's not tax relief. They are taking advantage of tax laws, put into effect well before Bush was in office, related to the location of expenses and sources of income in the corporate structure.



This is true. While it is not GW's fault that these companies are downsizing, outsourcing...he has done little to sopt/influence business to attempt to keep jobs in the hands of skilled american workers.
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#17 Old 08-02-2004, 08:30 AM
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Depends what *real* world you live in Annie. I'm glad in your *real* world things are going so well though. I teach too many children who live in a completely different *real* world where things aren't nearly as nice.



But it's good things are going so well for you. I'm not arguing with what you're saying, but calling where you are 'the real world' when others out there are so very far from that reality is a bit of a blanket statement.



B



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#18 Old 08-02-2004, 08:36 AM
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but calling where you are 'the real world' when others out there are so very far from that reality is a bit of a blanket statement.

By *real* world, I mean not swallowing every scrap of liberalized Anti-Bush misinformation out there. Real world = coming into contact with real people, not just typing back to a bunch of letters on a screen.



I'm sorry you know children seemingly in poverty, but their parents choices had alot to do with where they are, not the Bush admin.
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#19 Old 08-02-2004, 08:39 AM
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OregonAmy,



First of all, I don't hate Teresa Heinz.



My point was that the child is not Teresa's, so his thumb sucking is none of her business.



How would you feel if someone you recently met, did that to your child?



It also shows how little she knows about the public. I think most people would find the thumb sucking "cute" or "endearing."

Happiness is not the result of a mathematical equation comparing the good times and bad times someone has had. It is a state of mind.
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#20 Old 08-02-2004, 08:44 AM
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Keep in mind, many of these same people blame Bush for Enron's "cooking the books", even though that started under Clinton.



George Bush and probably the rest of the Bush family have a history with the accused parties of enron. Doesnt really matter when it started, the suspicion is there because of this.
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#21 Old 08-02-2004, 08:46 AM
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George Bush and probably the rest of the Bush family have a history with the accused parties of enron. Doesnt really matter when it started, the suspicion is there because of this.



But that in no way ties them into any of the illegal activities. Fact: Enron was corrupt before Bush was in office, so blaming Bush for Enron corruption is ignorant.
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#22 Old 08-02-2004, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bethanie View Post

Depends what *real* world you live in Annie. I'm glad in your *real* world things are going so well though. I teach too many children who live in a completely different *real* world where things aren't nearly as nice.



But it's good things are going so well for you. I'm not arguing with what you're saying, but calling where you are 'the real world' when others out there are so very far from that reality is a bit of a blanket statement.



B



B



Did I post this? Because this is exactly what I was thinking.
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#23 Old 08-02-2004, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Annie View Post

By *real* world, I mean not swallowing every scrap of liberalized Anti-Bush misinformation out there. Real world = coming into contact with real people, not just typing back to a bunch of letters on a screen.



I'm sorry you know children seemingly in poverty, but their parents choices had alot to do with where they are, not the Bush admin.



Or maybe their parents parents choices. Or maybe they live in a town built by the steel industry. Could be they are unfortunate enough to go to public schools and their parents can't find jobs that would support private schooling.



Poverty is a lot more complicated than what you may seem to think dear. If it wasn't it wouldn't be such a big issue.



This may be a tad presumptious, but I get the feeling that you've never lived in poverty and/or the inner city. The picture looks different from a distanced perspective.



I'm a little bothered by your "real world" statement.
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#24 Old 08-02-2004, 08:55 AM
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But that in no way ties them into any of the illegal activities. Fact: Enron was corrupt before Bush was in office, so blaming Bush for Enron corruption is ignorant.



I doubt the Bush's were involved in the internals of the company. I find it hard to believe though, there wasnt some back scratching here and there externally, so alarms are naturally going to start going off.
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#25 Old 08-02-2004, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MsRuthieB View Post

This may be a tad presumptious, but I get the feeling that you've never lived in poverty and/or the inner city.

You are exactly right! It is presumptuous. I've had my fair share of scratching and sacrificing to get where I am. Everyone is afforded the SAME opportunities, you just have to be willing to do something with it.
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#26 Old 08-02-2004, 08:59 AM
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pfft @ same opportunities.
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#27 Old 08-02-2004, 09:04 AM
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I have a friend that doesn't think everyone gets the same chances, too. But everytime we take chances and pull ourselves up that ladder one one higher, she's still standing in the same place we saw her, shaking her head and saying "pftt @ same" too. She can talk to me about it, AFTER she puts a hand on that ladder and tries. You can, too.
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#28 Old 08-02-2004, 09:06 AM
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O keey doh keey.



Somehow I hear the song "rose colored glasses".
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#29 Old 08-02-2004, 09:08 AM
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There's nothing rosey about hard work and not spending money in a fool-hearted way.
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#30 Old 08-02-2004, 09:09 AM
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LOL @ "you can too". For one, I AM trying, and I'm doing fairly well, thanks, so unless you personally know what part of the ladder I'm standing on, you may want to save that pep talk for your non - climbing friend. Now, back to the subject at hand, everyone doesn't have the same opportunities. That's just how it is.
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