Veggie Regular

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,671
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If you feel strongly about it, you should be out trying to get legislation passed. Of course, like everything else, not everyone agrees.
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I agree, that there are inhumane conditions. But, for instance, I don't consider getting honey from a beehive abusive in any senses of the word. I don't see milking a cow as abusive. I don't see how eating humane eggs is a problem. To each their own though, but seriously, I would love to understand why getting honey is abusive.
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That's my main reason. There's others. By definition, honey isn't vegan because it is aquired through the exploitation of animals.
Drones are often killed because they are not useful to honey production. Queens may also be killed or have their wings removed to prevent swarming. Honey isn't actually a by-product of bees; they produce it to survive on during the winter months . Farmed bees can crowd out the native, natural pollinators. Honey is nectar that has been swallowed, regurgitated, and mixed with saliva- many times. |
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The roosters walk around the farm, or get eaten, I suppose. The chickens walk around outside, and people go out every day to collect the eggs in their yard. Some people have chickens as pets that lay eggs, and they eat the eggs. How is that inhumane?
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I know a lot of people that are beekeepers. They never do any such things. I'm not saying someone might do that, but they've never heard of it.
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Mm-hm. Like the man whose neighbor has a magical milk farm where calves aren't separated and males live out their natural lives in never-ending fields of green. This neighbor only takes excess milk that the calf doesn't suckle AND turns a profit on such. Older cows go live in these wondrous fields when they're no longer profitable.
Or the lady whose uncle runs a humane chicken farm... the hens roam around happy and excess roosters are never culled, always fed and kept. Old hens are retired and never killed to save money. Yes, bees kept for agricultural reasons *MAY* be treated more humanely than bees kept for honey production. However, honey, like milk and eggs, are products. They are produced and sold for profit. If an older queen isn't profitable anymore, replacing her with a young queen makes more sense. That's why folks against the exploitation of animals refuse to use animal products. |
Do I condone any action? No. But if it's not against the law, why is it my business? What ations are you speaking of?
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Do you not understand what factory farms are? How they operate? How could you condone that?
Backyard breeders are not immune to animal cruelty. Friends with chickens treated like pets... wonderful. I have some friends like that. From where did those chickens come? Most likely from breeders who cull useless males (or sell them off for cockfighting). What do they do when the chicken becomes useless for egg-laying? When an animal is used for it's produce or profit, he/she is generally discarded as waste or sold/used for meat when production declines. I do not see that as humane. I'm sure that there are a few cases where people who exploit animals for their secretions, estrus waste, and vomit treat the animals great, keep all the "useless" offspring, and never cull any whose production drops. But you must be aware that this is not the norm. In my experience, the folks who buy "humane" meat, free-range eggs, milk from "happy" cows, etc. realize that there is a problem with CAFOs. And that's a good thing. They are on the right path and beginning to make a connection. They feel a twinge of conscious about what happens to the beings from which their food comes, and they try to appease it. Personally, I find the thought of drinking breast milk as an adult repulsive. Same goes for the waste from a bird's reproductive cycle, or bee vomit. If you find them appetizing, well, that's your business. These "products" are generally not humane, no matter how many smiling animal pics you slap on the package. |
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Sure, I don't like factory farms, or commercial feedlots. That's why I don't eat meat. But I am not going to take it the extreme, like saying bees are exploited for honey, when nothing is killed, or saying that humane eggs are bad because it's possible that the chicken's grandfather was born on a factory farm. That's pretty extreme. |
If your argument is that unfertilized chicken eggs are food simply because laying eggs is "a thing that chickens do," then I don't see a significant difference, no. Menstruation is a thing that I do. Why are chicken eggs a delicacy worth the suffering and death of millions while my unfertilized eggs-- which could conceivably be obtained with my consent-- aren't?
The answer, of course, is that it's completely absurd for us to eat a woman's eggs. This is true for a female of any species. Chickens don't lay eggs for human consumption any more than I menstruate for human consumption. |
No, I'm pointing out the folly of your argument that your menstrual cycle somehow equatable with a chicken laying an egg.
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It's not only comparable, it's the same: the part of the female reproductive cycle when our bodies discard an unfertilized egg. I pass uterine lining along with the egg; a chicken occasionally bleeds during laying. The only difference is that a chicken's egg is larger and therefore easier to clean. If I could effectively clean the blood off human eggs, would you consider them food products? Would you eat them?
Remember, this entire conversation began because you stated that chicken's eggs are food rather than bodily waste. I've been trying to understand how you arrived at this conclusion. Rather than clarifying your position, you've been dodging my questions. I don't think you want to admit to the real reason why you believe it's acceptable and appropriate to eat chicken's eggs, which is that you were told it's acceptable and appropriate. There is no logic behind it-- it's just how you were raised. |
Do you seriously believe you are like a chicken?
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It's a very simple question: why is a chicken's reproductive cycle a desirable food product while a human woman's is not? I don't understand why you've been evading the question. Just answer it plainly, if you know the answer. . |
How is the frequency of menstruation at all relevant to a discussion of why you consider a chicken's menstrual waste to be a food product? Are you suggesting that if I menstruated daily, then you would consider eating my unfertilized eggs in your breakfast burrito? Why does that matter?
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An egg is a good source of nutrition and is good for cooking other things. It does not kill a chicken to lay an egg, (or any other bird for that matter. My cockatiel used to lay eggs) A human egg is not the same as a chicken egg. It is not enclosed in a hard shell. It is not fresh. and, it is a human. Most humans do not take part in cannibalism.
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Not eating eggs from a pet chicken makes no sense, since nothing dies when an egg is laid.
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I don't believe the word "menstrual" was used by me.
Eggs are produced and laid regardless of whether they are fertile. True story. Unfertilized eggs are, therefore, a waste product of the reproductive system. http://freefromharm.org/eggs-what-ar...really-eating/ http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/nielsen/ww...vianrepro.html |
I know a lot of people that are beekeepers. They never do any such things. I'm not saying someone might do that, but they've never heard of it.
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But I think you've touched on a true and honest justification for eating chicken's eggs: speciesism. That is, the idea that we, as humans, are fundamentally superior to other species of animal, to the point where we don't view their lives or their bodies as their own, but rather ours to use as we please. We would never consider harvesting a human woman's unfertilized eggs for food, even if we enjoyed the taste and could really use the iron, because doing so strikes us as innately wrong, a severe invasion of that woman's privacy and autonomy. We allow human women the ability to exist, to menstruate, to lactate, to procreate without taking anything from their bodies to sell or consume for our own benefit. We do not offer this same basic decency to female chickens or cows.
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It's not only comparable, it's the same: the part of the female reproductive cycle when our bodies discard an unfertilized egg. I pass uterine lining along with the egg; a chicken occasionally bleeds during laying. The only difference is that a chicken's egg is larger and therefore easier to clean. If I could effectively clean the blood off human eggs, would you consider them food products? Would you eat them?
Remember, this entire conversation began because you stated that chicken's eggs are food rather than bodily waste. I've been trying to understand how you arrived at this conclusion. Rather than clarifying your position, you've been dodging my questions. I don't think you want to admit to the real reason why you believe it's acceptable and appropriate to eat chicken's eggs, which is that you were told it's acceptable and appropriate. There is no logic behind it-- it's just how you were raised. |
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