Does watching other people eat meat bother you? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 06-10-2015, 08:43 AM
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so you are fine with animals dying for no reason at other people's hands? i am not.
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#32 Old 06-10-2015, 09:24 AM
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so you are fine with animals dying for no reason at other people's hands? i am not.
They are not dieing for no reason- they are being used to feed people. To say that humans have not eaten meat since we evolved into humans is folly. There are lots of things people do that others want to make moral judgments about. My position is that you live with what you do, and I'll live with what I do, as long as no one is committing a crime.
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#33 Old 06-10-2015, 11:08 AM
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They are not dieing for no reason- they are being used to feed people. To say that humans have not eaten meat since we evolved into humans is folly. There are lots of things people do that others want to make moral judgments about. My position is that you live with what you do, and I'll live with what I do, as long as no one is committing a crime.
For the sake of argument, then, do you condone any action as long as it's legal, or just killing (certain) animals for food?
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#34 Old 06-10-2015, 11:17 AM
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For the sake of argument, then, do you condone any action as long as it's legal, or just killing (certain) animals for food?
Do I condone any action? No. But if it's not against the law, why is it my business? What ations are you speaking of?
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#35 Old 06-10-2015, 11:52 AM
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Do I condone any action? No. But if it's not against the law, why is it my business? What ations are you speaking of?
Bullying, for example. If you were to see another person bullying someone, would you feel that it was none of your business? My opinion is that we have a moral obligation to speak up or intervene when a third party is being harmed, even if the harmful act in question is legal.
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#36 Old 06-10-2015, 11:59 AM
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Bullying, for example. If you were to see another person bullying someone, would you feel that it was none of your business? My opinion is that we have a moral obligation to speak up or intervene when a third party is being harmed, even if the harmful act in question is legal.
Bullying? Such as a physical battery?
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#37 Old 06-10-2015, 12:12 PM
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Bullying? Such as a physical battery?
That would be illegal, so it wouldn't work for this exercise. Legal bullying would: verbal harassment, for instance. One person shouting insults at another or purposefully humiliating another. This is legal but inarguably immoral. If you saw this happening and were in a position to safely intervene, wouldn't you? If not, why would you intervene only when a law is being broken? I'm having trouble understanding why you draw the line at legality rather than morality.
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#38 Old 06-10-2015, 12:18 PM
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That would be illegal, so it wouldn't work for this exercise. Legal bullying would: verbal harassment, for instance. One person shouting insults at another or purposefully humiliating another. This is legal but inarguably immoral. If you saw this happening and were in a position to safely intervene, wouldn't you? If not, why would you intervene only when a law is being broken? I'm having trouble understanding why you draw the line at legality rather than morality.
No, people need to resolve problems on their own. If they get the idea that every time they have a problem they need someone else to solve it for them, we will become dependent on the government for everything,even more than we are now.
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#39 Old 06-10-2015, 12:46 PM
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No, people need to resolve problems on their own. If they get the idea that every time they have a problem they need someone else to solve it for them, we will become dependent on the government for everything,even more than we are now.
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#40 Old 06-10-2015, 01:02 PM
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When I first went vegetarian, it bothered me, but not in a condescending way. It was more the way that, after I quit smoking, the way I'd look at someone smoking and want so badly to switch back. Now, though, I just figure that if they don't mind my not eating meat, then who am I to mind them eating it?
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#41 Old 06-10-2015, 01:22 PM
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When I first went vegetarian, it bothered me, but not in a condescending way. It was more the way that, after I quit smoking, the way I'd look at someone smoking and want so badly to switch back. Now, though, I just figure that if they don't mind my not eating meat, then who am I to mind them eating it?
Because no animals had to be tortured and killed for your meal. If your dinner companions were killing a dog and eating her for dinner, would that be ok because they don't mind what you eat?

I have been vegan over a decade, so obviously sometimes I eat with people who are eating meat. (Not in my home though.) I just ignore the meat, and when the inevitable comments begin about my eating only plants, I say I will not discuss it until after we finish eating. If they get obnoxious and start BUT BACONing! me, I tell them some gross facts about pig "farming."
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#42 Old 06-10-2015, 01:39 PM
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It doesn't 'bother' me in the sense that I don't get outraged by it. I don't feel disgusted. I don't particularly feel like I have to make an issue of it ...

I do feel bemused sometimes. Like with sausages (for example) I just don't understand why people would eat something that is so unhealthy. There's literally nothing good there - they're just little chunks of bad that don't even taste that nice. So, as I do point out the obvious health benefits that come with my diet to my lovely fiance, I suppose I am a bit bothered by it. And sometimes I wax lyrical about how great my diet is ...

However, I'm also a big believer in choosing your battles and winning the war. So far I'm winning on recycling (he's going to build me a recycling station out back). Greener living in the home (more eco friendly choices and fewer chemicals). And I've started on veg*n meals.
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#43 Old 06-10-2015, 01:41 PM
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Because no animals had to be tortured and killed for your meal. If your dinner companions were killing a dog and eating her for dinner, would that be ok because they don't mind what you eat?

I have been vegan over a decade, so obviously sometimes I eat with people who are eating meat. (Not in my home though.) I just ignore the meat, and when the inevitable comments begin about my eating only plants, I say I will not discuss it until after we finish eating. If they get obnoxious and start BUT BACONing! me, I tell them some gross facts about pig "farming."
In our culture, we don't eat dogs. In other cultures,they do.
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#44 Old 06-10-2015, 01:41 PM
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"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."
Agree !!!! It's not always possible to intervene but if you can and don't that's just as bad as doing the act yourself.

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#45 Old 06-10-2015, 01:43 PM
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Agree !!!! It's not always possible to intervene but if you can and don't that's just as bad as doing the act yourself.

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Intervening doesn't always produce self reliance, does it? People need to learn how to deal with their problems, not expect someone to solve their problems for them.

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#46 Old 06-10-2015, 01:54 PM
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Intervening doesn't always produce self reliance, does it?
Not always no but neither does the flip side. It's not black and white, but in general I can't in good concious sit quiet ALL the time when something isn't right to me. Sometimes you have to speak up, take action and try to give a helping hand, enlighten someone. Just maybe then will things get better. We aren't in this world or comunities and so on alone. We are here together and the idea of everyone needing to be self reliant is kind of silly when we have always helped one another.

A big part of me being vegan is being aware of the positive results of my actions, and helping others realize they can be apart of that positivity is always good in my book .

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#47 Old 06-10-2015, 02:06 PM
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Intervening doesn't always produce self reliance, does it? People need to learn how to deal with their problems, not expect someone to solve their problems for them.
Under certain circumstances, it's impossible or extremely difficult for the victim to single-handedly confront the oppressor. A victim who is physically weaker than his bully, or younger and more vulnerable, or in a compromising position, or (as is the case with animals) literally unable to defend themselves-- how could we, in good conscience, ignore that individual's suffering in the name of teaching them a lesson on self-reliance? A person who has been systematically and repeatedly humiliated and harassed won't gain self-confidence without support, and a non-human animal certainly couldn't be expected to handle the situation alone.

Part of being a good and courageous person is standing up to oppression and cruelty even when it's allowed by law. A great many horrific acts were once legal. Wouldn't you have objected to slavery, or would that have been none of your business?
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#48 Old 06-10-2015, 02:09 PM
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Because no animals had to be tortured and killed for your meal. If your dinner companions were killing a dog and eating her for dinner, would that be ok because they don't mind what you eat?
It's not that I don't mind it, it's that I'm just not going to partake. Like someone here said, it's normal to eat dogs in other cultures. I see those animals as equals to pigs, cows et cetera. I wouldn't verbally condemn them unless they insisted that I join them.
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#49 Old 06-10-2015, 02:10 PM
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Part of being a good and courageous person is standing up to oppression and cruelty even when it's allowed by law. A great many horrific acts were once legal. Wouldn't you have objected to slavery, or would that have been none of your business?
I don't know the answer. Was the law being broken? No. Was the law unjust. Probably. So we work to change the law. Slavery exists today. what are you doing about it?
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#50 Old 06-10-2015, 02:16 PM
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A person who has been systematically and repeatedly humiliated and harassed won't gain self-confidence without support, and a non-human animal certainly couldn't be expected to handle the situation alone.

Part of being a good and courageous person is standing up to oppression and cruelty even when it's allowed by law. A great many horrific acts were once legal. Wouldn't you have objected to slavery, or would that have been none of your business?
Animal cruelty is a crime.
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#51 Old 06-10-2015, 02:21 PM
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I don't know the answer. Was the law being broken? No. Was the law unjust. Probably. So we work to change the law. Slavery exists today. what are you doing about it?
What am I doing about it? Exactly what I do about the torture and slaughter of animals: I don't participate in it and I openly object to it. If I ever have the opportunity to convince a slave trader that what he's doing is immoral, then I'll try. If others are engaged in a conversation about how owning slaves is okay because it's convenient/normal/natural/traditional, I'll speak out against it. The fact that slavery is illegal and the torture of farmed animals isn't makes no difference to me. I'm still unclear on the difference it makes to you. Could you clarify?
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#52 Old 06-10-2015, 02:23 PM
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Animal cruelty is a crime.
Certain cruel acts against certain animals, sure. The torture and slaughter of farmed animals isn't against the law.
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#53 Old 06-10-2015, 02:32 PM
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Certain cruel acts against certain animals, sure. The torture and slaughter of farmed animals isn't against the law.
If you feel strongly about it, you should be out trying to get legislation passed. Of course, like everything else, not everyone agrees.

I agree, that there are inhumane conditions. But, for instance, I don't consider getting honey from a beehive abusive in any senses of the word. I don't see milking a cow as abusive. I don't see how eating humane eggs is a problem. To each their own though, but seriously, I would love to understand why getting honey is abusive.
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#54 Old 06-10-2015, 02:32 PM
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In our culture, we don't eat dogs. In other cultures,they do.
Yes, I am aware. Would you be okay with sharing a table with someone eating a dog?
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#55 Old 06-10-2015, 02:36 PM
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Animal cruelty is a crime.
Only if the cruelty is perpetrated against certain animals we have designated as pets. It is perfectly ok to torture and kill cows, pigs, chicken, sheep, ducks, snails, fish, etc though.
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#56 Old 06-10-2015, 02:37 PM
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Often, the queens are killed and replaced with a younger queen when honey production declines.
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#57 Old 06-10-2015, 02:38 PM
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Yes, I am aware. Would you be okay with sharing a table with someone eating a dog?
Here, no. In another culture, I doubt it. Go to South America. Thy eat Guinea Pigs. Here they are pets. If someone was eating rabbit, I would sit at their table, even though I wouldn't eat a rabbit.
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#58 Old 06-10-2015, 02:38 PM
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If you feel strongly about it, you should be out trying to get legislation passed. Of course, like everything else, not everyone agrees.

I agree, that there are inhumane conditions. But, for instance, I don't consider getting honey from a beehive abusive in any senses of the word. I don't see milking a cow as abusive. I don't see how eating humane eggs is a problem. To each their own though, but seriously, I would love to understand why getting honey is abusive.
Where do you find humane eggs? What happens to the chickens when they age and slow egg production? What happens to all the roosters?
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#59 Old 06-10-2015, 02:39 PM
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Often, the queens are killed and replaced with a younger queen when honey production declines.
That's the reason?
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#60 Old 06-10-2015, 02:41 PM
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Where do you find humane eggs? What happens to the chickens when they age and slow egg production? What happens to all the roosters?
The roosters walk around the farm, or get eaten, I suppose. The chickens walk around outside, and people go out every day to collect the eggs in their yard. Some people have chickens as pets that lay eggs, and they eat the eggs. How is that inhumane?
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