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#61 Old 05-17-2015, 07:18 AM
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I can't really say that I'm a part of any religion in particular because I have never been christened or taken to church. But I do believe in God, and the God I believe in is probably closest to the general God that Christians believe in. I realise others may find it silly to hear, but I just feel really certain that there is a higher existence. Of course I can't be 100% certain, after all it is just faith with no cold hard proof.. but it's still something I very strongly believe.

Because I'm not really a part of any religion, there's no list of things I believe or rules I follow that are expected from a person of a particular faith. I pretty much just believe in things that just make sense to me while still being open to other possibilities. I never kid myself that I have all the answers. For example, I don't believe that God has control over everything. I like to believe he has influence over some things, but his power is not that great that he can prevent anything bad from ever happening on Earth. Maybe there are so many more catastrophes and natural disasters that may have occurred but they didn't because he somehow prevented them? I don't know. These are just things I ponder over from time to time.

And as for the theme that this thread started with, about giving God credit for the achievements of people.. I don't think he can always take the credit, but then again I never presume to know exactly what his input is. For example, if I achieve something in my life, when I pray to God next I will thank him just in case he has helped in any way.. And when I pray for help, I won't say 'Lord, let me pass this exam tomorrow', I'll say 'Lord, please help me to stay calm tomorrow, help me find the confidence within myself so that I am able to perform at my best', blah blah blah [I can get bad performance anxiety with uni stuff, so those things are actually super important to me, fyi] Anyway, it's almost like speaking to my conscience. Maybe I see God as my conscience..? I don't know.

Also, can I just say that obnoxious atheists piss me off soooo much. Thank goodness there are none here.. But I'm talking about the ones that always try to piss off Christians/Catholics by telling them their beliefs are based on a 'book of fairytales'. Like, if you believe that, fair enough. If you want to challenge their beliefs in a friendly debate (that they welcome), sure, go ahead.. But since when was it ok to say blatantly offensive things in regards to another person's religion? I personally also hate seeing people wear the cross and other religious symbols as a fashion accessory and nothing more..

This post was so rambly! I doubt anyone will read it all through, but just thought I would post my own thoughts on God, seeing as I'm not an atheist or a person who has grown up around a church/strongly religious people.
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#62 Old 05-17-2015, 07:59 AM
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Custardpie (sorry, I don't know your name), your beliefs are probably very close to what my dad believes in.

It's probably the most rational approach to a belief in a supreme deity.

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#63 Old 05-17-2015, 08:32 AM
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Custardpie (sorry, I don't know your name), your beliefs are probably very close to what my dad believes in.

It's probably the most rational approach to a belief in a supreme deity.
Hahah, it's Suzi, but if you ever forget it then custardpie will do just fine (and it sounds way more delicious).

And I really appreciate you saying that. I always try to be rational and keep an open mind for everything. I feel it's the best way to approach things.
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#64 Old 05-17-2015, 12:24 PM
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Btw, Leedsveg, I think you attributed something I posted to Capstan.
I didn't in fact attribute it to Capstan but it was certainly your post I quoted and I'm sorry for the omission. I've now corrected this.

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#65 Old 05-17-2015, 12:26 PM
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I, for one, am genuinely interested in the ways in which religious people rationalize the contradiction between free will and God's will.
I noticed, in your response to my post #16, you completely failed to address the middle section of my comments, where I tried to answer this for you. You edited it out of my statements, when you quoted me. Is there some reason you don't want to share your thoughts on what I said?

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#66 Old 05-17-2015, 12:36 PM
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"The dominion of God is easier to bear than the tyranny of men."

I'm sorry, I don't know who said it, but I sincerely believe, without submission to the Creator's will- that is, left to his own devices- the human race would long ago have driven itself into extinction or de-evolution.
Sorry, Capstan. I didn't purposely disregard this bit-- I just don't understand how it relates to the topic, exactly. Could you elaborate so I can form a better response?
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#67 Old 05-17-2015, 03:52 PM
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Sorry, Capstan. I didn't purposely disregard this bit-- I just don't understand how it relates to the topic, exactly. Could you elaborate so I can form a better response?
Apology accepted. The topic is God's will v. human will. While humans have free-will, too often their will is corrupt and tyrannical. People will slit your throat to steal your shoes, your wallet, your husband, and your eyes. The Great Spirit has no need to; therefore, the Creator's will is freer; hence, easier to take on than the will of mortal humans. The Great Spirit's will, as chronicled in ancient texts, credited to no human being, "imposes" injunctions on us, against committing such criminal acts, but in the final analysis, God imposes nothing on us. The human race has accepted Divine Law voluntarily, because it knows, in its heart, they are the right ideas. But I don't think the human race invented all the good ideas, alone. I think we've had guidance along the way. This does not, BTW, presuppose that all religions- and their laws- are the same or correct.

Do you still fail to understand how this relates to your question? Let me know.
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"The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time." -Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels -Michael Shaara
"Anyone who doesn't believe in miracles isn't a realist." -Billy Wilder

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#68 Old 05-18-2015, 12:57 AM
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Apology accepted. The topic is God's will v. human will. While humans have free-will, too often their will is corrupt and tyrannical. People will slit your throat to steal your shoes, your wallet, your husband, and your eyes. The Great Spirit has no need to; therefore, the Creator's will is freer; hence, easier to take on than the will of mortal humans. The Great Spirit's will, as chronicled in ancient texts, credited to no human being, "imposes" injunctions on us, against committing such criminal acts, but in the final analysis, God imposes nothing on us. The human race has accepted Divine Law voluntarily, because it knows, in its heart, they are the right ideas. But I don't think the human race invented all the good ideas, alone. I think we've had guidance along the way. This does not, BTW, presuppose that all religions- and their laws- are the same or correct.

Do you still fail to understand how this relates to your question? Let me know.
Thanks for the clarification. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that God has the power to impose his will on human beings-- to override our own free will-- but chooses not to do so in most situations. Instead, he lets his desires be known via ancient texts or other means of communication and hopes we'll act accordingly. Is that right?

Could you explain what you mean by the terms "Great Spirit" and "God"? Being familiar primarily with Christianity, I've not heard that first one-- which religion do you follow?

Is your concept of God one of an omniscient and all-powerful deity who determines the course of mankind's history, or more of a creator who then steps back and observes? At what point do you believe that God steps in? He currently allows us to slaughter millions, wage war, abuse children, and destroy our planet. What do you believe is the criteria for Him to exert His power, since you believe that we would have already died out otherwise?

Also, what of his creations that have gone extinct: the various animals, the dinosaurs, the Neanderthals? Were they not saved because they weren't favoured by God, while our brand of humans are?

I'm also interested to hear you say that not all religions' edicts are true. How does one discern which of the many religions is the "true" religion?

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#69 Old 05-18-2015, 08:10 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that God has the power to impose his will on human beings-- to override our own free will-- but chooses not to do so in most situations. Instead, he lets his desires be known via ancient texts or other means of communication and hopes we'll act accordingly. Is that right?
Sort of, except that part about God having power to impose his will and override our own. I can't say what power the Great Spirit has, but I know of no examples of His will overriding our own. (I'll use the pronouns, He/Him/His, as you have done, for the sake of brevity. I believe the Great Spirit to be multi-gendered, but I also think sexuality to be essentially irrelevant to a discussion about spirituality.) As I said in an earlier post, the Great Spirit's primary concern for us is that we be free. He is a teacher, not a master.

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Could you explain what you mean by the terms "Great Spirit" and "God"? Being familiar primarily with Christianity, I've not heard that first one-- which religion do you follow?
I use these terms to refer to an entity of pure spirit, along with terms like, Supreme Being and All Highest. As @varun pointed out in post #6, "God" is a muchly overworked term. I prefer to deviate from it, because it has become so charged, emotionally, and means so many different things to different people. "Great Spirit" is the "One," who has attained to complete independence from the physical universe, yet remains fully conscious, self-aware, and capable of interacting with the physical.

If your main exposure to religion has been through Christianity, you have my sympathies. I can well understand any frustration or skepticism you might feel. I was raised Christian, but when I matured and began to think for myself, was obliged to reject Christianity as being a false, dangerous religion, but did not give up my privilege to have a spiritual life of my own. I hope Christianity has not soured you on the idea of your own spiritual value.

I can't say that I "follow" any religion. Most of the ideas I have about religion were given to me by a modern text (less than 150-years old) that teaches spiritual enlightenment is given in an approximate 3000-year cycle. 9000-years ago, the prophet Zarathustra appeared, and gave the ten commandments to his followers. 6000-years ago were raised up the prophets Hiawatha, Brahma, Abram (Abraham) and Po. (Note- there have been two Brahmas- the original, and a later "false" Brahma, who took for himself a revered name for wicked purpose.) 3000-years ago, appeared Capilya, Moses, and Chine. But it also teaches that a new age is upon us, and acknowledges that the human race has matured to a point beyond the need for prophets, Popes, or Imams. It is an age of individuality, where it is up to each person to find her or his own way to a relationship with the All Highest, assuming they want to have one, at all.

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Is your concept of God one of an omniscient and all-powerful deity who determines the course of mankind's history, or more of a creator who then steps back and observes? At what point do you believe that God steps in? He currently allows us to slaughter millions, wage war, abuse children, and destroy our planet. What do you believe is the criteria for Him to exert His power, since you believe that we would have already died out otherwise?
I think spiritual growth is required for us to survive as "humans." If we grow only physically, we will descend back into animalism. Turning toward religion as an answer to all our problems I believe to be foolishness in the extreme. Life is rough. It is both physical and spiritual. The body grows by taking away from others, but the spirit can only grow by doing the opposite, by giving to others. The purpose of religion is to nurture the spirit, not the body. We already have logic to help us with our physical needs, and I see no reason why the scientifically 'proven' and "mysticism" cannot coexist, and work together toward a common, beneficial future.

The short answer to your question is, I believe the Supreme Being to be like an older, more experienced sibling, who respects us enough to let us live our own lives, yet cares enough about us to occasionally offer some friendly advice.

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Also, what of his creations that have gone extinct: the various animals, the dinosaurs, the Neanderthals? Were they not saved because they weren't favoured by God, while our brand of humans are?
I believe today's "current" human race is actually a hybrid between some of those older races and angels, who took on physical bodies and mated with those more primitive people, which makes us today half of the earth and half of heaven. We also have the constant choice of which direction to go- backward, or forward.

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I'm also interested to hear you say that not all religions' edicts are true. How does one discern which of the many religions is the "true" religion?
Trust your heart. No good doctrine will ever cause you pain. If it hurts your heart, it is false doctrine.
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#70 Old 05-18-2015, 09:19 AM
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Thanks for the thorough response! This is all very interesting. I'll keep using the term "God" and capitalized male pronouns for convenience's sake only; I agree that it's irrelevant to assign a gender to a supernatural entity.

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Sort of, except that part about God having power to impose his will and override our own. I can't say what power the Great Spirit has, but I know of no examples of His will overriding our own.
It seems that your understanding of God doesn't pose the same problems River highlighted in her original post: that He "opens doors" for those fortunate enough to be born into privilege but not for others, and that we're essentially biding our time while waiting for him to open doors for us rather than making our own way in the world. I suspect that River's friend who posted the image in the OP is referring to the Christian God, since that's the sort of sentiment you often hear from Christians. Your concept of spirituality seems much looser and more flexible than Christianity, at least when it comes to the concept of free will.

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If your main exposure to religion has been through Christianity, you have my sympathies. I can well understand any frustration or skepticism you might feel. I was raised Christian, but when I matured and began to think for myself, was obliged to reject Christianity as being a false, dangerous religion, but did not give up my privilege to have a spiritual life of my own. I hope Christianity has not soured you on the idea of your own spiritual value.
I wouldn't say that I was raised Christian, because my parents were never particularly devout, but they sent me to Catholic school and then Christian evening classes and summer camps regardless, so my first and most immersive exposure to religion was Christianity. I'm a critical thinker and curious by nature, so I was sceptical from the start, and I asked a lot of questions that were never properly answered. There is too much in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, that I find too horrible and disturbing to even want to believe: divinely condoned rape and infanticide, slavery, war. I still don't understand how the gentle, kind Christians I know can reconcile that kind of violence to their loving and just God.

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Turning toward religion as an answer to all our problems I believe to be foolishness in the extreme. Life is rough. It is both physical and spiritual. The body grows by taking away from others, but the spirit can only grow by doing the opposite, by giving to others. The purpose of religion is to nurture the spirit, not the body. We already have logic to help us with our physical needs, and I see no reason why the scientifically 'proven' and "mysticism" cannot coexist, and work together toward a common, beneficial future.
I'm particularly glad to hear you say that, because aside from my moral objections to the Bible, my biggest issue with religion is the unwillingness to accept our modern growing understanding of the universe. If religious people yearn for the ultimate truths about humanity and the space we inhabit, one would think that they would embrace the amazing discoveries we're making in the fields of astrophysics and quantum physics. In our study of things both unfathomably large and unimaginably small, we're getting remarkably close to understanding how the universe works-- and it's beautiful all on its own, it's more fantastic than anything I've seen in a religious text-- plus, it's real and measurable and rooted in fact. It doesn't even require faith beyond the faith that all the world's scientists aren't pulling our collective leg-- which is, unfortunately, what many religious people believe. There are Christian museums and theme parks dedicated to painting the whole of modern science as a conspiracy, to teaching children that fossil records are hoaxes fabricated by heathens and that evolution is just some crazy man's fantasy. I can't get behind that, and I can't choose to believe in something that has no basis in reality.

It would be lovely to believe in Heaven, for instance. It would bring me a great amount of comfort to "know" that when I die I'll be happy for eternity, reunited with my loved ones, floating on a cloud... But I don't possess the strength of self-delusion to make myself believe that on the basis of wanting. I like your story about angels mating with prehistoric man, I find it poetic and pretty, but there's no evidence to suggest that that's even a possibility, so it's not something I could believe in unless we were to discover something new about the origins of man.

Anyway, thanks for engaging. You have interesting ideas.
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#71 Old 05-18-2015, 09:24 AM
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Sort of, except that part about God having power to impose his will and override our own. I can't say what power the Great Spirit has, but I know of no examples of His will overriding our own. (I'll use the pronouns, He/Him/His, as you have done, for the sake of brevity. I believe the Great Spirit to be multi-gendered, but I also think sexuality to be essentially irrelevant to a discussion about spirituality.) As I said in an earlier post, the Great Spirit's primary concern for us is that we be free. He is a teacher, not a master.

I use these terms to refer to an entity of pure spirit, along with terms like, Supreme Being and All Highest. As @varun pointed out in post #6, "God" is a muchly overworked term. I prefer to deviate from it, because it has become so charged, emotionally, and means so many different things to different people. "Great Spirit" is the "One," who has attained to complete independence from the physical universe, yet remains fully conscious, self-aware, and capable of interacting with the physical.

If your main exposure to religion has been through Christianity, you have my sympathies. I can well understand any frustration or skepticism you might feel. I was raised Christian, but when I matured and began to think for myself, was obliged to reject Christianity as being a false, dangerous religion, but did not give up my privilege to have a spiritual life of my own. I hope Christianity has not soured you on the idea of your own spiritual value.

I can't say that I "follow" any religion. Most of the ideas I have about religion were given to me by a modern text (less than 150-years old) that teaches spiritual enlightenment is given in an approximate 3000-year cycle. 9000-years ago, the prophet Zarathustra appeared, and gave the ten commandments to his followers. 6000-years ago were raised up the prophets Hiawatha, Brahma, Abram (Abraham) and Po. (Note- there have been two Brahmas- the original, and a later "false" Brahma, who took for himself a revered name for wicked purpose.) 3000-years ago, appeared Capilya, Moses, and Chine. But it also teaches that a new age is upon us, and acknowledges that the human race has matured to a point beyond the need for prophets, Popes, or Imams. It is an age of individuality, where it is up to each person to find her or his own way to a relationship with the All Highest, assuming they want to have one, at all.

I think spiritual growth is required for us to survive as "humans." If we grow only physically, we will descend back into animalism. Turning toward religion as an answer to all our problems I believe to be foolishness in the extreme. Life is rough. It is both physical and spiritual. The body grows by taking away from others, but the spirit can only grow by doing the opposite, by giving to others. The purpose of religion is to nurture the spirit, not the body. We already have logic to help us with our physical needs, and I see no reason why the scientifically 'proven' and "mysticism" cannot coexist, and work together toward a common, beneficial future.

The short answer to your question is, I believe the Supreme Being to be like an older, more experienced sibling, who respects us enough to let us live our own lives, yet cares enough about us to occasionally offer some friendly advice.

I believe today's "current" human race is actually a hybrid between some of those older races and angels, who took on physical bodies and mated with those more primitive people, which makes us today half of the earth and half of heaven. We also have the constant choice of which direction to go- backward, or forward.

Trust your heart. No good doctrine will ever cause you pain. If it hurts your heart, it is false doctrine.
I love this post and this idea of a supreme deity.
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#72 Old 05-18-2015, 08:56 PM
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9000-years ago, the prophet Zarathustra appeared, and gave the ten commandments to his followers. 6000-years ago were raised up the prophets Hiawatha, Brahma, Abram (Abraham) and Po.
As per Judaism, I consider Enoch ben Yared (not Enoch son of Cain) the very first prophet/mashiach. Subsequently came his son Methuselah > Noah> Abram> Yitzkhak> Moshe> Dawid. The reason why there is so much confusion today between the 3 religions is how the Greek Septuagint managed to blunder oops translate old Hebrew names/meanings into Greek. It was a recipe for a disaster from the start. Hebrew had no vowels, only consonants whereas ancient Greek made extensive use of vowels to explain pronunciations, it wasn't entirely their fault as a certain Anglo language with the use of J (jay) instead of ancient J (yay) further mistranslated everything. One simple example would be Hebrew Yahshua (pronounced Y'eshu)> Greek I'esous > English Jesus. This is why I keep taking names from the original point of reference for a stronger understanding of its foundations. God in the Tanach/O.T never had a name, it was only a tetragrammaton denoting he is nameless & shall remain so. How that became a certain 7 letter name I'm still not understanding

The Persians/Farisees had another God named Ahura Mazda/H'ormazd meaning (Light-Wisdom), his rival being Angra Mainyu aka darkness. Basically just an interplay of what we already know. Its borrowed from Iraqi scriptures, the prophet Zathurastra just put it in poetic form.

Now Brahmanism, there weren't 2 Brahma from what I know, because Brahma is a first born creator entity, the father of first man Manu (Noah) as per Indian texts (yes Hinduism & Judaism share an eerily similar flood story). Sure there are some differences because according to Judaism Adam is the first man but if we all throw out the thousand languages we have today and look for direct untainted translations we'd see that every religion came from the same source, only to be split by mere opinions.
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#73 Old 05-18-2015, 10:26 PM
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As a non-young person, an agnostic atheist since roughly age eight, and as someone who was raised in a strict Christian denomination until my confirmation at age sixteen (and therefore having a better than fair knowledge of various Christian denominations), I have to say that I find people's religious beliefs interesting from a cultural anthropological and psychological point of view.

I have held the view for some time that any given religion reflects the core values of the individual adherents of the particular religion, rather than the religion shaping those core values. (There's some of the latter going on too, of course, to the extent that people fail entirely to question the belief system into which they are born.) Therefore, I don't blame religion as such for the wars, etc., which have centered on religion; I blame human nature.

I think that there are some of us who are unable to believe - it's just not in us. I suspect that that is a minority though, since so many atheists and agnostics I've encountered tend to believe in other things, like ghosts and/or other supernatural phenomenon.

I think that pretty much every belief system and pretty much every cause has slogans (for want of a better word) which most of its adherents don't bother to examine closely or at all, and certainly not with their critical thinking skills turned fully on. (This is also the case for such trite old sayings such as "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger", "Every cloud has a silver lining", etc.) I think that what is described in the OP falls into this category.
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#74 Old 05-20-2015, 03:32 PM
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Just when this thread has settled down and members are having good, respectful debates about religion, somebody comes along and pokes a stick in it to stir things up. So that the people who want to carry on debating religion can do so, without being distracted by off-topic comments, I'll almost certainly be deleting any furture posts to do with "attacks", "personal attacks" and other posts of a similar nature. I've now done this from post #63, if members are wondering where those posts have gone.

Just two other points: River has clarified the words she used in the opening post so if you're still not happy with them, please take it up with her by private message. Also can I remind everyone that among other things, we do not discriminate against members because of their age. A person's age may be no reflection of their wisdom and common sense.

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#75 Old 05-21-2015, 04:58 PM
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The maker of the poster above is actually in violation of Commandment 3 - You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. Jokes apart there is substantial new-age philosophy in the current religions. God itself is an over-used term, its short for the term Godan used in the Roman region to denote a force from beyond. Because English itself borrowed largely from Roman, Greek & German words, God became universally known. The term is partly of Sanskrit-Paganic origin (something hated by Semitic religions).

Knowing both the Old Testament & New, I feel there's a huge difference between them in terms of logic & commandments. The O.T focusses more on creation & rules on how to live whereas N.T goes into deeper & deeper into the unknowns, i.e stuff like God is with you always & is in control as long as you reach out to him. This is funny because of a particularly large loophole - freewill. Freewill or the power to define your own destiny has been described several times in N.T and then they also say God will decide to interfere in the destiny and undo anything as long as one prays to him. Basically if you can find a right balance of doing anything via freewill and praying hard enough then the 2 cancel each other out.

When facing difficulties, religion helps people to :
- Call the situation as God's will
- Console themselves thinking that they are being tested
- Thinking that the test will end soon and they shall be awarded if they pass it
- Assume God has the best in mind for them so they must accept the new situation

When people are happy religion helps them to :
- Show modesty by crediting God
- Praising & hoping that this feeling never ends
- Praying to reach newer heights

Ancient philosophy was far more sorted & practical with poems/odes being sung in the form of prayer to the elements like earth, fire, rain etc but ever since the modern bible religions have become a joke because of too much dilution. I'm not saying any religion ever made sense, none of them did but today its become worse with most people tweaking the ancient scriptures to their own convenience and printing them as facts. "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx

Source : Plenty of research to expose the mistranslated lies of religions.
Do you have a source on the etymology of the word God? Because my own experience with Germanic vs Latinate languages indicates that "God" is Germanic in origin, while Latinates tend toward variations of Deus. I hadn't heard the Godan claim before.
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#76 Old 05-21-2015, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by David3 View Post
This is an interesting topic, and I tend to agree with River.


However, aren't you worried that these types of posts may alienate some of our members from the vegetarian diet? If we really want to save animals and improve health, then EVERYONE needs to adopt a plant-based diet, not just agnostics and atheists. Maybe we should remind ourselves that one of the largest, (mostly) vegetarian communities in the West are the 7th Day Adventist Christians. The Adventist Health Study is one of the largest mixed-population vegetarian/omnivore health studies ever done, and vegan health proponents (like Dr. Michael Greger) cite this study.
I assure you, Christians will never be oppressed by the minority of people who describe themselves as atheist.

I really don't appreciate how every atheist discussion gets passive-aggressively invaded by non-atheists who want to keep atheists in check for our supposed judgmentalness/arrogance/stand-offishness. Perhaps that wasn't the intent of your post, but nevertheless it is a common theme.

I think it is OK to give atheists a space to vent once in awhile, even if it is just an occasional thread topic.
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#77 Old 05-21-2015, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erilol View Post
I assure you, Christians will never be oppressed by the minority of people who describe themselves as atheist.

I really don't appreciate how every atheist discussion gets passive-aggressively invaded by non-atheists who want to keep atheists in check for our supposed judgmentalness/arrogance/stand-offishness. Perhaps that wasn't the intent of your post, but nevertheless it is a common theme.

I think it is OK to give atheists a space to vent once in awhile, even if it is just an occasional thread topic.
I don't think this was a venting thread for atheists. I got the impression that River, the OP, wanted to spark a discussion after seeing this image on social media.
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#78 Old 05-21-2015, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by erilol View Post
Do you have a source on the etymology of the word God? Because my own experience with Germanic vs Latinate languages indicates that "God" is Germanic in origin, while Latinates tend toward variations of Deus. I hadn't heard the Godan claim before.
I never claimed Godan is the root word leading to the name God. I merely wrote that "God is short for the term Godan" which is the most popular term to refer to a supernatural unknown today. Now I'm no language expert, I just go by what I read but I'll try my best to elaborate on how the word God came to be.

There's no doubt that Hebrew writings are the oldest of the organized religions, but they never had a term for referring to the supreme entity as it was considered blasphemy. The only 2 references they commonly make are Adonai (father) & (HaShem) the name. However, the unorganized sector of pagan worship existed outside of Middle East/South Asia. Countries such as Rome, Greece, Germany, England, Sweden etc believed in idol worship, worship of elements & seasons. Like you said, though its not mentioned anywhere, that the word God should have its roots in Germanic Gott. Since ancient German language borrowed almost entirely from Sanskrit, apparently the Sanskrit meaning of the same word is "to one libation/sacrifices are offered". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_(word)

Its no secret that at a time when Greeks & Romans were still trying to perfectly translate the Torah that the Gothic people of Germany invaded Rome, this is probably how the word Godan entered the Old Testament the first time. Anything that isn't the Hebraic Torah has a taint of bad translation, pagan terms and other superstitions injected into it. Deus is taken from the Sumerian term Dingir. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingir

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#79 Old 05-21-2015, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erilol View Post
I assure you, Christians will never be oppressed by the minority of people who describe themselves as atheist.

I really don't appreciate how every atheist discussion gets passive-aggressively invaded by non-atheists who want to keep atheists in check for our supposed judgmentalness/arrogance/stand-offishness. Perhaps that wasn't the intent of your post, but nevertheless it is a common theme.

I think it is OK to give atheists a space to vent once in awhile, even if it is just an occasional thread topic.

I am actually am an atheist. I'm not trying to suppress anyone. In order to make this forum welcoming for all vegetarians, it's better not to focus too much on criticisms of other people's faiths. The name of this website is VeggieBoards, not AtheistBoards.


I have seen at least one instance where a person of faith joined VeggieBoards, showing great enthusiasm for vegetarian living. When a religious criticism post appeared on the "Recent Discussions" list, this person posted their disappointment regarding the post. A few days later, this person stopped posting - it was obvious what happened. In response, I contacted this person directly and referred them to the Dr. John McDougall forums, where the focus is strictly on plant-based diets, without the side topics.
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_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#80 Old 05-22-2015, 07:39 AM
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I am glad you helped them find a more neutral place to discuss vegetarianism. From what I've seen, possibly contentious topics here are confined to specific areas of the board. One with wavering faith could avoid those areas.

That said, I don't think anything should get a free pass and be free from scrutiny. We need to question things to better understand them.

Faith is basically belief without evidence- and some people can justify their faith. That's great for them. But if one's beliefs are so weak that they cannot deal with criticism or conflicting ideals, perhaps they should learn to question.

As long as non-veggie, possibly contentious topics (religion, politics, etc.) are kept off the vegan/vegetarian boards, it shouldn't be an issue.
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#81 Old 05-23-2015, 07:05 PM
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Can an atheist understand that belief in God gets people thinking about greater things (such as the powers involved in the creation - creative process) and has good purpose? Religion is a program to help people think (often people who are in a phase of needing such help) . The common alternative is money worship - competitive greed or one of the many forms of intoxication. So an atheist can believe in the purpose that religion or belief is (at least) intending or trying or should be standing for.
If a person truly develops a clearer understanding of how creation works they would understand that the state of understanding of others is only in need of tactical improvement help.
There is no proof or facts of the existence of a God, making it a concept... But a great tool to utilize when such need arises. (People tend to call God that which they don't understand).
This thread shows some good insight. It does appear that vegetarianism is on a naturally progressive path of understanding that helps manifests more harmony to learning processes.
No need to believe in God but gotta love people who practice true adherence to the principals and qualities that God can be and sometimes is representative of.
A problem exists in the outdated mode of most major religions. And the lack of insight of some of its followers.
The laws of Karma can be translated as the will of God even though they are an intricate aspect of natural occurrence.
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