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#1 Old 03-20-2015, 07:29 AM
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possibly a controversial opinion

I feel that people who call themselves vegetarians but still eat fish shouldn't be ridiculed. We should appreciate their efforts to cut down meat, possibly ask them to identify themselves as pescatarians rather than vegetarians. Maybe later they will even turn actually vegetarian.
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#2 Old 03-20-2015, 08:04 AM
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I agree about the ridicule, but I definitely think they should use the term "pescatarian." There's a persistent myth among omnivores that vegetarians eat fish, and it does no one any good perpetuating it.
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#3 Old 03-20-2015, 09:18 AM
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I agree, Rasitha.
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#4 Old 03-20-2015, 09:26 AM
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I do not agree but do not think ridicule or cruelty is ok but lets stick to being honest here.

Fish is not a vegetable and its still flesh so if you eat it you are eating flesh. Even the term Pescatarian makes no sense to me. Who decides exactly which beings matter and which do not?

I think this comes from a real want to be compassionate and that is always a good thing but to pretend fish do not feel is just not the truth and does not help anyone especially the fish.

All steps are good I think...but we should stay honest.

Grace
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#5 Old 03-20-2015, 09:34 AM
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Grace, I don't think anyone is suggesting that fish don't feel, or that fish aren't animals.

What is being suggested is that it doesn't do any good to ridicule people who are reducing their consumption of animals, that it's better to encourage them along the path than to ridicule them for not being far enough along it already.
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#6 Old 03-20-2015, 09:51 AM
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Yes, as long as they don't call themselves "vegetarians" or "pescavegetarians" (!) I am glad they are redu ing their consumption of animals. As long as they're not eating fish 10x a week.
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#7 Old 03-20-2015, 10:26 AM
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"Beautiful Joe" I believe I was very clear on that point.
Grace

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#8 Old 03-20-2015, 11:28 AM
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It's never bothered me what they call themselves. People where I live still think vegetarians eat chicken, so fish makes little difference.


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#9 Old 03-20-2015, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
I agree about the ridicule, but I definitely think they should use the term "pescatarian." There's a persistent myth among omnivores that vegetarians eat fish, and it does no one any good perpetuating it.
I agree^^. (I got served fish once cuz it was 'vegetarian' .-.)
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#10 Old 03-20-2015, 01:31 PM
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a question of empathy

If those people eat fish and no other animals, and if they do it because they care about animal well-being, it might be because they have more empathy for mammals and birds, which are genetically closer to humans.
http://tolweb.org/Gnathostomata/14843

I guess they shouldn't call themselves vegetarians but if we bully them for this, they'll be bullied twice : by vegs AND by meat-eaters. Wouldn't this kill all their hopes ?
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#11 Old 03-20-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
I agree about the ridicule, but I definitely think they should use the term "pescatarian." There's a persistent myth among omnivores that vegetarians eat fish, and it does no one any good perpetuating it.
I agree with this. I think we should just politely let them know that the term is pescetarian. Maybe they themselves don't even know.

A teen girl I know is a pescetarian (actually went pescetarian before I went vegetarian), and for a long time she called herself vegetarian. I never said anything to her because I don't feel like I had enough of a relationship with her to correct her (plus, I've seen her get a temper tantrum very easily), but her older meat-eating brother called her out on it, and not in the nicest way, quite a bit. She has now learned to call herself pescetarian.
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#12 Old 03-20-2015, 05:43 PM
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It does bother me that people feel they're doing something better by just eating fish/seafood. If it's a health perspective, I fully understand, but ethically it's terrible
Of course no one should be bullied, and to be real, I'd never put them down for it, but fishing is not only wrecking havoc on a world we don't even quite understand, but the suffering is horrific.

I really am quite okay with the use of "almost", or mostly vegetarian, when people eat meat like once a week or so.

To play devils advocate, eating pastuered beef is the most ethical decision an omnivore can do.
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#13 Old 03-20-2015, 06:58 PM
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Many grow up believing vegetarians eat fish, or even birds.
I was taught that as a child.
It's the same disconnect meat eaters have, but at least pescatarians have taken a step in the right dierction.
Everyone I've informed about the subject immediately understood. Most knew it all along, they just never stopped to think about it.
"Fish and birds are animals, too. You eat their flesh. Eating flesh is not vegetarian. "
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#14 Old 03-20-2015, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by silva View Post
It does bother me that people feel they're doing something better by just eating fish/seafood.

Aren't they? I mean fish possibly die a painful death by the bucket loads but still pescatarians avoid the horrible factory farmed deaths of cows and pigs.
Also even milk and eggs contribute to factory farming.

I don't think anyone of us is as ethical as we could be. Most of us(I think) sacrifice some amount of ethics for our convenience.
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#15 Old 03-20-2015, 08:36 PM
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I was a pescetarian before I became full vegetarian, and honestly I have to say sometimes I had to say, "like a vegetarian - but I eat fish." People have no idea what a pescetarian is, and that's really hard when, you know, you're trying to get a meal without beef or chicken or pork. I tried to use the word "pescetarian," (how else will people learn?) but much of the time people thought I was telling them my religion. Not an exaggeration!
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#16 Old 03-21-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by natty6 View Post
It's never bothered me what they call themselves. People where I live still think vegetarians eat chicken, so fish makes little difference.


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I suppose the proper term for them would be "pollovegetarian"... (Is there a smiley for someone stifling the overpowering urge to scream?)

My two cents: I'm glad the term "pescetarian" exists, because it didn't when I was one. Fish apparently have somewhat simpler nervous systems than mammals or birds, but thinking back... I believe the reason I ate fish for almost 4 years after I stopped eating meat was because my family fished, but didn't hunt. And I have come to believe that fish may be sentient, even though some scientists argue that they are not.

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#17 Old 03-21-2015, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasitha.wijesekera View Post
Aren't they? I mean fish possibly die a painful death by the bucket loads but still pescatarians avoid the horrible factory farmed deaths of cows and pigs.
Also even milk and eggs contribute to factory farming.

I don't think anyone of us is as ethical as we could be. Most of us(I think) sacrifice some amount of ethics for our convenience.
Well, if Mr X orders a steak, he is eating a small part of one killed animal. If he eats a shrimp dinner, he is eating dozens of killed animals.

And fish are indeed factory farmed, especially salmon and catfish.

"While some believe that fish farming is the solution to overfishing, they do not take into account the inherent inefficiency of animal agriculture. Just as it takes 12 pounds of grain to produce a pound of beef, it takes 70 wild-caught feeder fish to produce one salmon on a fish farm. Time magazine reports that it takes 4.5 kg of ocean-caught fish to produce 1 kg of fishmeal that is fed to a fish." http://animalrights.about.com/od/ani...ishFarming.htm
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Last edited by LedBoots; 03-21-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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#18 Old 03-22-2015, 08:10 AM
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true, but I feel that at least most fish lead a natural life, and possibly less developed neurally so cows possibly should take precedence? In the end we should avoid both anyway. I feel the first step can be not killing the cows.
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#19 Old 03-22-2015, 10:31 AM
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Fish eaters may not be aware that 80% of the fish consumed in the U.S. is from China, Indonesia, and Asia and grown under filthy conditions, such as pig manure. I think they think they are eating fish from the high seas caught in open clean water. They are not ideal conditions and I don't see it as a natural way of living before becoming their lunch.

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/0...eafood-supply/
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#20 Old 03-23-2015, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by no whey jose View Post
I agree about the ridicule, but I definitely think they should use the term "pescatarian." There's a persistent myth among omnivores that vegetarians eat fish, and it does no one any good perpetuating it.
^This.^
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#21 Old 03-23-2015, 10:00 AM
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I have never met or heard of a "pescatarian" that did not also eat eggs and milk. Has anyone here???

I think the first thing that should be given up would be dairy and eggs actually. Ethically anyway.

The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men. ~ Alice Walker
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#22 Old 03-23-2015, 12:06 PM
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Natty, the iphone has an emoticon doing "The Scream" from the famous painting. Perhaps this answers your question.
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#23 Old 03-23-2015, 12:12 PM
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Agreed, Rasitha! Thanks for going out "on a limb" to raise this topic. Ridicule is counter-productive especially for a compassionate cause like vegan/vegetarianism. Much better to build community by reaching out courteously than to build barriers or hostility by "coralling" behavior with ridicule.
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#24 Old 03-23-2015, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace Steps View Post
I have never met or heard of a "pescatarian" that did not also eat eggs and milk. Has anyone here???

I think the first thing that should be given up would be dairy and eggs actually. Ethically anyway.
I think there are pescetarians who avoid egg and milk, but they're quite uncommon, and I don't know if there's a term for them (pescovegan, maybe?... which would make absolutely no sense, since vegans strictly avoid ALL animal products. I think they might be called "pescans"). I don't know if most people drop meat first, then fish, and finally eggs/milk, but that's been my route.

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Natty, the iphone has an emoticon doing "The Scream" from the famous painting. Perhaps this answers your question.
If this was for me... thanks! I don't have an iphone though...
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Last edited by Tom; 03-23-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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#25 Old 03-23-2015, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Grace Steps View Post
I have never met or heard of a "pescatarian" that did not also eat eggs and milk. Has anyone here???

I think the first thing that should be given up would be dairy and eggs actually. Ethically anyway.

yes, but it's the hardest to avoid because it's in everygoddamn thing
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#26 Old 03-24-2015, 06:34 AM
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yes, but it's the hardest to avoid because it's in everygoddamn thing
hmmm not really you read the ingredients and do not eat if you are unsure. Its kind of a vegan must and also people that are allergic to eggs and dairy do it also.

I was talking more about Pescetarian that just eat eggs and dairy as a part of the diet.

Yes its work to not eat them but as you can see on this forum many vegans are pretty good at it


Grace
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Last edited by Grace Steps; 03-24-2015 at 06:39 AM.
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#27 Old 03-24-2015, 06:45 AM
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This seems more about looking for the A ok to eat fish and just No come on we all know thats not cool...but its also the way many people transition so its progress I think and giving compassion is good. I have not called names etc and will not.

This reminds me of meatless mondays or what if i said I only will kill people on Wed..the rest of the week everyone is safe. Uhh no lol

Instead of looking for the ok I agree that Pescatarians should tell people no they are not vegetarian or vegan to help the rest of us out and them in the the future and just get over that since we see fish as beings that matter we will not be cool with it. Which in the end since most talk here is that its a way to get to vegetarianism or veganism we all agree on anyway right?

Grace

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Last edited by Grace Steps; 03-24-2015 at 06:45 AM. Reason: forgot a Not
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#28 Old 03-24-2015, 08:45 AM
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Yes its work to not eat them but as you can see on this forum many vegans are pretty good at it
What can also be seen from this forum is that people complain endlessly about how hard it is to be vegan (or vegetarian).
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#29 Old 03-24-2015, 09:32 AM
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What can also be seen from this forum is that people complain endlessly about how hard it is to be vegan (or vegetarian).
Really? Am I the only one who finds it really easy? It's not like I have great willpower or anything. I sit around and eat junk food all day. Yesterday I had a chocolate chip muffin and a peanut butter brownie in one sitting!
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#30 Old 03-24-2015, 09:53 AM
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This seems more about looking for the A ok to eat fish and just No come on we all know thats not cool...but its also the way many people transition so its progress I think and giving compassion is good. I have not called names etc and will not.

This reminds me of meatless mondays or what if i said I only will kill people on Wed..the rest of the week everyone is safe. Uhh no lol

Instead of looking for the ok I agree that Pescatarians should tell people no they are not vegetarian or vegan to help the rest of us out and them in the the future and just get over that since we see fish as beings that matter we will not be cool with it. Which in the end since most talk here is that its a way to get to vegetarianism or veganism we all agree on anyway right?

Grace

I understand where you are coming from, I'd love everybody to turn vegan overnight. But the truth is some people won't have enough motivation(at least in the beginning) to turn vegan. They might stop at pescatarian or vegetarian or even just doing meatless Mondays. But something is better than nothing yes? And hopefully they will progress towards veganism later as well.
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