Are slaughter-house workers bad people? - Page 4 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 166Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#91 Old 02-16-2015, 12:15 AM
Lovable misanthrope
 
MozIsMyShepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,398
My 5 year old son still eats chicken at school are you saying he is just as cruel than the low lives who kill for a living and torture defenceless creature for fun?

it takes guts to be gentle and kind
MozIsMyShepherd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#92 Old 02-16-2015, 01:12 AM
Impeach the gangster
 
Capstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by MozIsMyShepherd View Post
My 5 year old son still eats chicken at school are you saying he is just as cruel than the low lives who kill for a living and torture defenceless creature for fun?
I would need more information about your boy's behavior to make such a call. I would say anyone, including 5-year old children, have the potential to be cruel. Do you think the widow, with three kids to feed, who couldn't get a job at Sears or Baskin-Robbins, because she doesn't speak English, so works the line, packaging pork chops, is more cruel than the 5-year old little girl, who squishes a bug under her foot, as a demonstration of power to her friends?

The original question was, what motivates people to work in Slaughterhouses? Now it's been turned into a crusade against a few documented cases of factory abuse, which is actually off-topic.

I posed a question earlier-

Quote:
I have to wonder if meat-packers take some sort of special pride in what they do? There is a widespread, erroneous belief that eating meat is necessary. Do they think themselves heroic, for taking on a job most others will not, within the context of this false belief? I suppose some may and others may not.
Thoughts?

"There is more wisdom in the song of a bird, than in the speech of a philosopher...." -Oahspe
"The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time." -Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels -Michael Shaara
"Anyone who doesn't believe in miracles isn't a realist." -Billy Wilder
Capstan is offline  
#93 Old 02-16-2015, 04:54 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 88
You'd have to be desensitized to a large extent to work in such a place. It is scary to consider just how desensitized they might be,
veggiestez is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#94 Old 02-16-2015, 06:57 AM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,949
The irony of demonizing workers with so little condemnation of owners, or government subsidary, not to mention the sarcasm of job choice going over heads!
When I've spoken with people who've had knowledge of animal farms they've had no problems dismissing what I consider fact based arguments. No different than arguing abortion with a hard core christian, or climate change with a right wing conservative. People who eat meat know full well that

Why is this the job they get when it's the worse conditions with little protection and low pay? Think maybe because if the meat industry upheld proper standards consumers would have to pay? Consumers fight higher meat prices probably more than any other food. Still feel consumers are more innocent?
To me it's like demonizing soldiers in times of war, calling them killers while reveling in peaceful communities with all it's freedoms.
When Ohio had standards for increased cage size for chickens, and gestation crates for pigs on the ballot I petitioned at many different venues. Very few people were shocked by the current standards, and while most said they cared, few wanted them changed. Why? Most felt better conditions for the animals would cost more money, and no, they didn't care enough to simply not eat meat, or even eat less. It did surprise me how many people felt that by initiating better animal welfare laws would lead to demands of animal rights. I only shared my vegetarianism with other vegetarians. Yes, people know full well where their meat comes from, they just don't want it pointed out.
I can't think of how many times I've seen public displays, news shows, books, been in conversations about where meat comes from. I have since childhood, we all have. To say that those who still eat meat are less guilty is like demonizing prostitutes while exonerating the ones that pay them.

I do believe factory farm workers feel a heightened sense of reality, a weird kind of pride. I can't blame them.
I'm sure someone will say what about the abuse? Well, there is abuse found in day cares, nursing homes and everywhere else. Human trafficking exists in the best neighborhoods. Even vegans are guilty of buying things made from them, as well as products made from children in sweat shops.

To say that many comments here are from those who don't understand privilege is like saying that racism doesn't exist, or that there is no problem with sexual equality.
I don't have a secular way of saying this but--
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Tiger Lilly and Beautiful Joe like this.
silva is offline  
#95 Old 02-16-2015, 06:59 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Individuals who work in slaughter houses are not evil human beings, but rather human beings who have fallen victim to the inhumane system of corruption. Just as serial killers are not evils human beings, but rather human beings that have become victims of abuse and violence, and have learned through observational learning that it is acceptable, it is a mental illness, a disease. Psychologically, the human mind is a very fragile instrument because our bodies are not physiologically designed to kill. We are creating a world that does not suit our needs, but feeds the misguided ego.
veggiestez likes this.
abs.couture is offline  
#96 Old 02-16-2015, 07:02 AM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,949
Honestly, the number response to when I talk about the meat industry is " I know, I don't want to hear it". For them, slaughterhouse workers are heroes.
And I've heard the response to "if slaughterhouses had glass walls everyone would be vegetarian" as, "nope, I know, but that's where meat comes from, and it doesn't stop me from eating it"
Raskolnikova likes this.
silva is offline  
#97 Old 02-16-2015, 07:36 AM
Veggie Regular
 
rasitha.wijesekera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
When Ohio had standards for increased cage size for chickens, and gestation crates for pigs on the ballot I petitioned at many different venues. Very few people were shocked by the current standards, and while most said they cared, few wanted them changed. Why? Most felt better conditions for the animals would cost more money, and no, they didn't care enough to simply not eat meat, or even eat less. It did surprise me how many people felt that by initiating better animal welfare laws would lead to demands of animal rights. I only shared my vegetarianism with other vegetarians. Yes, people know full well where their meat comes from, they just don't want it pointed out.
This is where most people's opinions lie. Does that make them evil? To me yes. To them, they are just normal human beings just trying to get by without having to pay extra to goddarn animals who are there for humans to eat anyway.
rasitha.wijesekera is offline  
#98 Old 02-16-2015, 07:44 AM
Veggie Regular
 
rasitha.wijesekera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by MozIsMyShepherd View Post
My 5 year old son still eats chicken at school are you saying he is just as cruel than the low lives who kill for a living and torture defenceless creature for fun?
I think the problem is you are talking about the workers who actively seek out to torture animals. They are probably on the side of evil by their nature. But I assume they are far outnumbered by people who treat it just like a job and takes no real pressure in killing animals.
rasitha.wijesekera is offline  
#99 Old 02-16-2015, 08:09 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Joan Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lovettsville, VA and Portland, OR
Posts: 1,982
I can't say I was really ignorant of where meat came from when I was a meat-eater. I knew the poverty behind meat-packing and the hazardous conditions, and would have agreed that within the vast industry there was some animal abuse and some gratuitous cruelty, because that's how so many humans behave: Many abused people abuse anyone or anything they have power over, and it happens, but not to most animals there. To relatively few of them, in the big picture. I would have argued that the slaughter of livestock, when the system works the way it was designed to, looks worse to the viewer than it feels to the animal. I knew that millions of male chicks were culled on the egg side of poultry raising, and that milllions of male and female chicks were culled on the meat side, but was satisfied that their deaths were rapid, and that their shortened lifespans gave them a break from living in the miserable food-producing cycle. I would have argued that life in a feedlot or a chicken house, grim as it seems to us, has it over life in the wild in some ways: that if you're a prey animal you have to keep looking around and keep bolting every time the grass rustles, and that you have to sleep with one eye open, and that you will likely die quite young, of predation or starvation, or dehydration or the elements. The animal-keeping conditions under standard practice turned out to be worse than I thought. I didn't know about all the ammonia in the air, and people having to bring their own oxygen supply into the chicken houses with them. It was suffering, not the killings, that really turned me off meat for good. But as vegetarians and vegans we don't lobby for better stockyard conditions. We don't have the credibility to lobby for that, because everyone knows nothing they change will satisfy us. We lobby for people to stop eating those products whether they are produced horribly or relatively humanely. As far as I'm concerned, it's not the slaughterhouse where it's so horrible to be an animal. The hell is where they're born, how they're treated, how they're kept from being able to engage in their instinctive animal behaviors. The slaughterhouse is where they are released from their suffering. They're not euthanized, it's rougher than that, but then again they're not pets and euthanasia uses drugs that people wouldn't want to be eating with their meat.

So a lot of people don't know how bad the standard animal-keeping conditions really are. But it comes down less to suffering than to whether one species has the right to own the life of another, even under idyllic conditions. After all, if you don't eat meat for ethical reasons you don't eat meat even from an animal that lived on a hunting preserve or a nice farm with fresh clean straw and spent their days happily with all their barnyard buddies. It's the death that bothers most vegans and vegetarians, but I have to own up that for me it's more the life. I can honestly say that I'd rather be slaughtered in a slaughterhouse than to work in one, even as a human being who knew exactly what I was in for, because the animals there are leaving their misery behind, while the workers are awash in their own misery.
silva, Shallot, leedsveg and 3 others like this.

Last edited by Joan Kennedy; 02-16-2015 at 08:15 AM.
Joan Kennedy is offline  
#100 Old 02-16-2015, 10:18 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Tiger Lilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
I don't have a secular way of saying this but--
"there but for the grace of god go I"
I've had that in my head throughout this entire discussion....
Joan Kennedy likes this.
Tiger Lilly is offline  
#101 Old 02-16-2015, 11:29 PM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by MozIsMyShepherd View Post
My 5 year old son still eats chicken at school are you saying he is just as cruel than the low lives who kill for a living and torture defenceless creature for fun?
No, because he is a little kid whose parents are still making his food decisions and purchases.
LedBoots is offline  
#102 Old 02-17-2015, 09:51 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
No, because he is a little kid whose parents are still making his food decisions and purchases.
Also, children have to be taught compassion, either by their family, friends or community at large, or through life experiences.
Beautiful Joe is offline  
#103 Old 02-17-2015, 02:07 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Tiger Lilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan View Post

I posed a question earlier-

I have to wonder if meat-packers take some sort of special pride in what they do? There is a widespread, erroneous belief that eating meat is necessary. Do they think themselves heroic, for taking on a job most others will not, within the context of this false belief? I suppose some may and others may not.

Thoughts?
I think I tried to answer that question before, maybe it got lost somewhere :P

From actually speaking with slaughterhouse workers (from those on the kill floor to the ones cutting up the animals, to the ones packing the meat.... Because not all of us grow up and work in cities. Some of us work in the country), there isn't a sense of pride. At best there's about as much 'pride' in the job as there is for people who work the checkout at the supermarket, at worst it's a sense of shame which I've seen perpetuated by the people around them. Very few people I've known in the area that have slaughterhouses, think kindly of the people who work in those slaughterhouses. Oh, they'll still eat the animals, but will in the same breath say things like "Slaughterhouse workers stink of death".

I think the only time the workers feel righteous in what they do, is when they're attacked for being monsters who perpetuate the violence. That's when they say "I'm doing this so YOU can eat animals!". More often than not, when I've heard them respond that way, it hasn't sounded so much angry as anguished.
Tiger Lilly is offline  
#104 Old 02-17-2015, 02:14 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: B.F.E but I like it ;)
Posts: 1,028
So the question is, are slaughterhouse workers bad people? I think it depends on the employee. just like any other job. But trust me, its the corporations that hire the workers, mistreat the workers, and kill the animals that are the real villians in all this.

However, I am biased. My husband used to pack meat as a job. He did it for 3 years, because there was not job opportunity in our rural area. (we live in a small midwestern town)

When an opportunity opened up (at a BIG cut in pay) doing something else, he jumped at the chance.

He never worked kill floor. I dont think he'd have lasted long there at all.
Tom, Capstan, Tiger Lilly and 2 others like this.
melimomTARDIS is offline  
#105 Old 02-18-2015, 03:15 AM
Vegan as f**k
 
Go Vegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worthing, England
Posts: 2,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan View Post
You shouldn't doubt my sincerity, Go Vegan. Seriously.

I'm not interested in being an amateur sociologist or in picking strangers' brains, then passing arbitrary, superficial judgements on their motives. I'll leave that to the magicians among us. As I've said elsewhere, in a civilized society, we judge people, not for what they think (or for what we think they think,) but for what they do, and if they commit crimes, we prosecute them, without prejudice, and without stigmatizing labels. In short, we do not seek revenge against them, which frankly I think is what this thread is all about- a witch hunt- an attempt to brand a few with a proverbial Scarlet Letter. You'll pardon me, if I don't join in the torch parade.

I disagree with you, in that the public bear far more than a "significant" responsibility for what happens, for, without their contributions, none of it would be happening.

Credit where it's due. If you want to prosecute the sadistic slaughterhouse worker, you have more than my blessing, but don't fool yourself into the idea that anyone who ever smacked their lips on a chicken wing is less cruel than the man who sadistically wrung its neck, because they are the ones who put him into the position to do so. And they know it. Pleading ignorance is a lot of BS. I think the public is far more aware than you seem to think. In the final analysis, all of the brainwashing is of their own making. They willingly choose to play the denial game, some of them, just for the "fun" of it. So you see, your average insurance salesman can be just as sadistic as the man on the killing floor.
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts...

I completely agree that some people do actively BS/ lie about animal suffering and this is something I am very keen to address!

I am also keen to help educate those who are delusional/ in a fantasy world about what goes on...
Go Vegan is offline  
#106 Old 02-18-2015, 03:22 AM
Vegan as f**k
 
Go Vegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worthing, England
Posts: 2,228
@ Capstan:

"I have to wonder if meat-packers take some sort of special pride in what they do? There is a widespread, erroneous belief that eating meat is necessary. Do they think themselves heroic, for taking on a job most others will not, within the context of this false belief? I suppose some may and others may not."

I think some of them may wrongly think that they are doing an essential service for their country...Others may have no thoughts either way...
Go Vegan is offline  
#107 Old 02-18-2015, 03:29 AM
Vegan as f**k
 
Go Vegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worthing, England
Posts: 2,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
The irony of demonizing workers with so little condemnation of owners, or government subsidary, not to mention the sarcasm of job choice going over heads!
When I've spoken with people who've had knowledge of animal farms they've had no problems dismissing what I consider fact based arguments. No different than arguing abortion with a hard core christian, or climate change with a right wing conservative. People who eat meat know full well that

Why is this the job they get when it's the worse conditions with little protection and low pay? Think maybe because if the meat industry upheld proper standards consumers would have to pay? Consumers fight higher meat prices probably more than any other food. Still feel consumers are more innocent?
To me it's like demonizing soldiers in times of war, calling them killers while reveling in peaceful communities with all it's freedoms.
When Ohio had standards for increased cage size for chickens, and gestation crates for pigs on the ballot I petitioned at many different venues. Very few people were shocked by the current standards, and while most said they cared, few wanted them changed. Why? Most felt better conditions for the animals would cost more money, and no, they didn't care enough to simply not eat meat, or even eat less. It did surprise me how many people felt that by initiating better animal welfare laws would lead to demands of animal rights. I only shared my vegetarianism with other vegetarians. Yes, people know full well where their meat comes from, they just don't want it pointed out.
I can't think of how many times I've seen public displays, news shows, books, been in conversations about where meat comes from. I have since childhood, we all have. To say that those who still eat meat are less guilty is like demonizing prostitutes while exonerating the ones that pay them.

I do believe factory farm workers feel a heightened sense of reality, a weird kind of pride. I can't blame them.
I'm sure someone will say what about the abuse? Well, there is abuse found in day cares, nursing homes and everywhere else. Human trafficking exists in the best neighborhoods. Even vegans are guilty of buying things made from them, as well as products made from children in sweat shops.

To say that many comments here are from those who don't understand privilege is like saying that racism doesn't exist, or that there is no problem with sexual equality.
I don't have a secular way of saying this but--
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Consumers who do not agree to pay slightly higher prices so that animals can have a better quality of life are extremely cruel and beyond selfish...

Last edited by Go Vegan; 02-18-2015 at 03:31 AM.
Go Vegan is offline  
#108 Old 02-18-2015, 01:00 PM
Lovable misanthrope
 
MozIsMyShepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Vegan View Post
Consumers who do not agree to pay slightly higher prices so that animals can have a better quality of life are extremely cruel and beyond selfish...
Or very indifferent, thinking animals are not worth extending their sympathy to

it takes guts to be gentle and kind
MozIsMyShepherd is offline  
#109 Old 02-26-2015, 03:59 PM
Tom
Veggie Regular
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Vegan View Post
I can imagine that they do get used to (butchering animals in a slaughterhouse) and become even more callous over time...
I very strongly believe this. I also think that mere exposure to or witnessing the killing of animals will also tend to make someone increasingly callous to the death of animals.

That's why, when I hear someone say that they respect a meat eater more if they can at least do the killing themselves, or say that if slaughterhouses had glass walls everyone would be vegetarian... I can sort of see why they're saying that, but I couldn't disagree more.

That said... I agree strongly with Capstan and others who have pointed out that those who consume products of the meat industry are primarily responsible for whatever that industry does to animals.

Peasant (1963-1972) and Fluffy (1970s?-1982- I think of you as 'Ambrose' now)- Your spirits outshone some humans I have known. Be happy forever.

Last edited by Tom; 02-26-2015 at 04:22 PM.
Tom is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off