Pointless Additives - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-30-2014, 08:12 PM
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Pointless Additives

Wow. Y'know what I just saw at the store for the first time? Almond milk containing honey. OMG, WTF?! Is there a market for honey flavored almond milk, seriously? Or are crazy insane industry executives just trying to create one? I mean, really -- I was already wondering what is wrong with people that they think that have to sell a honey-roasted version of everything else that can be eaten, washed with, or just set on a shelf. SMH!
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#2 Old 05-31-2014, 01:12 PM
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I hate seeing honey in ingredients, seems so pointless. I wish they'd just use sugar

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#3 Old 06-02-2014, 06:59 PM
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Almond milk containing honey. OMG, WTF?! Is there a market for honey flavored almond milk, seriously?
Honey and almonds taste good together so I reckon there may be a market for it.

I don't think honey would count as a "pointless addictive" since it imparts a very particular taste.
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#4 Old 06-02-2014, 07:31 PM
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MOD POST- Since this thread is morphing into another debate about the merits of honey, it has no place in the Vegan Support forum, so is being moved to the Compost Heap. Carry on.

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#5 Old 06-02-2014, 08:52 PM
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The ingredients I see as most pointless are the non-nutritive ones.
For instance I saw my mom had a loaf of bread with an odd name, like Whole Seed Bread rather than whole grain so I looked at the ingredients. Bleached white flour, bread dough bleach to further bleach it, and... brown food dye to make it look whole grain. It had a few sesame seeds glued on to the crust to allow them to use the word 'whole' in the name.
Seriously? Bleaching bleached bread and dyeing it brown just to be THAT exact in the shade of brown in the fake bread. Corporations are strange.
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#6 Old 06-03-2014, 11:49 AM
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The ingredients I see as most pointless are the non-nutritive ones.
For instance I saw my mom had a loaf of bread with an odd name, like Whole Seed Bread rather than whole grain so I looked at the ingredients. Bleached white flour, bread dough bleach to further bleach it, and... brown food dye to make it look whole grain. It had a few sesame seeds glued on to the crust to allow them to use the word 'whole' in the name.
Seriously? Bleaching bleached bread and dyeing it brown just to be THAT exact in the shade of brown in the fake bread. Corporations are strange.
WTF?!?? It's a crazy world we live in.
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#7 Old 06-03-2014, 08:01 PM
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The ingredients I see as most pointless are the non-nutritive ones.
For instance I saw my mom had a loaf of bread with an odd name, like Whole Seed Bread rather than whole grain so I looked at the ingredients. Bleached white flour, bread dough bleach to further bleach it, and... brown food dye to make it look whole grain. It had a few sesame seeds glued on to the crust to allow them to use the word 'whole' in the name.
Seriously? Bleaching bleached bread and dyeing it brown just to be THAT exact in the shade of brown in the fake bread. Corporations are strange.
You're finding this out now?? On the bright side, I'm glad I'm not the only one who looks at the ingredient list on bread, too.

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WTF?!?? It's a crazy world we live in.
It certainly is.:P

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#8 Old 06-05-2014, 10:44 AM
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If they weren't using honey they'd be using sugar. On another thread someone is unhappy to learn Kikkoman breadcrumbs contain sugar (two percent or less of total ingredients) that might or might not have been filtered using bone char. No matter what they do, the formulators will be turning off some customers to try and attract others.
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#9 Old 06-07-2014, 07:29 PM
 
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I think agave nectar or molasses would be a good choice. Even before I was a vegan I didn't care for honey, but agave nectar is awesome, IMO. It is also very flavorful, and they wouldn't have alienated their vegan consumers. I know not everyone who drinks non dairy milk is vegan, but many are so it seems like biting the hand that feeds...
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#10 Old 06-07-2014, 08:18 PM
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Corporations arent fools... well, ok, perhaps thats going too far...
Corporations arent bad at math! I expect they expect that the increase in non-vegan sales due to the honey will make up for loss of vegans.
In profit driven economies dont expect loyalty, magnanimity, or respect toward the customers. Expect the pursuit of profit.
And sadly, dont expect them to make it easy to tell when ingredients change! Once in a while read the labels even on products that have been safe for years. I've made the mistake of ignoring that guideline before, lol
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#11 Old 06-07-2014, 10:44 PM
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Vegans make up a small share of the total demand for plant-based "milks" so they certainly aren't going to worry much about whether their products are strictly vegan.

But, as someone else mentioned, if they aren't using honey they will be using cane sugar for a sweetener and the cane sugar may or may not be filtered with bone char so its not that they are, with the exception of the unsweetened versions, "vegan" in the strict sense in the first place.

But since honey has a very unique taste, I'm not sure in what sense it would be a "pointless" addictive. Almond + honey is a common combination, for example honey nut cheerios.
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#12 Old 06-09-2014, 06:38 AM
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Well, frankly, I've never personally grasped eating something just for flavor, anyway.

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#13 Old 06-10-2014, 06:26 AM
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I'm well aware that not all consumers are vegan. They're probably not fully motivated. But the reasons to not choose dairy are the same, I believe, save perhaps lactose. If you're buying for health, that's the point that matters to you. Do you want ingredients that don't?

I don't know, if you take as your baseline existing processed food sales, I guess a lot of things appear normal. That's one of the questions I began with, though - to what extent are popular expectations conditioned by what has been made available?

Like a Dairy Council commercial I saw while back. The ad's whole argument was "My mother gave me milk, so I want to give my daughter milk." No repeat of how it supposedly does a body good, just emotion. You know, if you want to talk about the irrational side.

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#14 Old 06-10-2014, 06:45 AM
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MOD POST- Since this thread is morphing into another debate about the merits of honey, it has no place in the Vegan Support forum, so is being moved to the Compost Heap. Carry on.
I guess you reach a level of commitment where people don't take it seriously when you say that you're unnerved by animal products everywhere. Otherwise it'd be hard to decide whether arguments added after the fact change the definition of a thread. But sure, in my case, staying vegan anyway.

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#15 Old 06-10-2014, 07:41 AM
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I don't know, if you take as your baseline existing processed food sales, I guess a lot of things appear normal. That's one of the questions I began with, though - to what extent are popular expectations conditioned by what has been made available?
Today the food industry has a big impact on western food culture, but much of what we eat today is still rooted in long traditions that predate modern industry. Honey has been part of the human diet since humans have been around.

I was just responding to the idea that its "pointless" to add honey. I could understand that if honey had no flavor and was just another sweetener, but that isn't the case. Many plant-based milks contain vanilla, would you consider that pointless as well?
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#16 Old 06-10-2014, 12:17 PM
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Well, if the idea is almond milk is not as creamy as the taste of cream, vanilla would seem to make a bit more sense. What does honey have to do with it? Do they sell honey mixed into cow's milk? Would that be weird? The way things "work" in supermarkets, I wouldn't be surprised if they started selling salt and pepper in a single canister. Not surprised, but I'd still ask "Who needs it?" and I'd still be curious how it is supposed to make more money.

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#17 Old 06-10-2014, 02:08 PM
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They probably tested versions using different sweeteners on focus groups, and then went by what they learned from the group. Also, that some sweeteners would be more expensive to use than others and probably would not have been under consideration.
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#18 Old 06-11-2014, 01:50 AM
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They probably tested versions using different sweeteners on focus groups, and then went by what they learned from the group. Also, that some sweeteners would be more expensive to use than others and probably would not have been under consideration.
Also that the word "honey" has more cachet with many consumers than the word "sugar", even though the difference in taste between a minute quantity of each in a product, may not be discernible.

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#19 Old 06-11-2014, 06:58 AM
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The way companies decide to add honey in any product is not much different from the way they decide to use milk or beef fat. Anybody who asks "Why put dairy in this granola bar?!" yet greets honey granola with "Eh, why not?" isn't being real consistent. Not to say they're just the same in substance; only that we need to think for ourselves. The long roots of honey (and meat) in people's diets doesn't prove that what's on the shelf in the world of the present is sustainable.

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#20 Old 06-11-2014, 11:55 PM
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The way companies decide to add honey in any product is not much different from the way they decide to use milk or beef fat.
Beef fat doesn't have much of a flavor so I don't think that is a comparison, but milk would be. I'm sure companies add milk to products for much the same reason they add honey, namely, people enjoy them and they think it will help them sale their products. I don't think either case would be pointless since the addition of milk or honey imparts a particular flavor that is difficult to mimic with other ingredients.

Also, if adding honey to almond milk is pointless I don't see why adding sugar, vanilla, or chocolate wouldn't be as well. The vast majority of commercial almond milks have added sugar, vanilla, or some other flavoring added.

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The long roots of honey (and meat) in people's diets doesn't prove that what's on the shelf in the world of the present is sustainable.
There are many practices in the west that aren't sustainable, but people seem to pick a few to care about and ignore all the others. But honey production is a sustainable practice, in fact, its one of the more sustainable sweeteners and can usually be produced locally.
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#21 Old 06-24-2014, 02:48 PM
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I'm at the store again and now I see they're selling honey roasted nuts cheaper than dry roasted. Why would they do that?

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#22 Old 06-24-2014, 06:55 PM
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I'm at the store again and now I see they're selling honey roasted nuts cheaper than dry roasted. Why would they do that?
Were the weights of the packages the same? Usually the plain and the flavored nuts are the same price though.
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#23 Old 06-27-2014, 08:41 PM
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Here... hopefully the picture is simply viewable to everyone.

But why would they be the same price anyway? Doesn't make much sense unless somebody's making deals. Marketing decisions are complicated, of course...
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#24 Old 06-28-2014, 11:56 AM
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The production costs for the two products are likely to be so close that you wouldn't expect to see any difference in the retail price but who knows why they priced the dry roasted ones higher than the honey. Perhaps its an evil conspiracy to get vegans to eat honey?
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#25 Old 06-28-2014, 05:19 PM
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Evil is relative.

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#26 Old 06-28-2014, 10:23 PM
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They prolly just produced too much of the honey kind... better to take a reduction in profits than be left with expired product.

But for those of you of the lizardmen shadow government type, perhaps the dastardly fiends are trying to get innocent young minds addicted to honey so they can jack the price up later. They could even be behind the colony collapse disorder, increasing world honey prices, and importing illegal imitation honey at low cost.
Their ignoble deviousness clearly knows no bounds.
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