Termination Debate - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 Old 11-22-2012, 12:44 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:
No, it isn't.  Ireland is a constitutional democracy.  The notion that the Irish are still being brainwashed by the Catholic Church is nonsense.  Irish people have access to the same global media and understand all the same issues that the rest of us do.

 



So why do you think we still carry on voting the way the Church tells us then? ( I am a dual national Irish/British) we still had the feckin' Magdalene sisters running their labour camps during my lifetime. Divorce was banned until 1996. The place was a feckin' theocracy under Dev and Haughey.

 

 

Quote:
There is an inconsistency, but if vegetarians care more about animal or aquatic life than about human life then so be it.  Vegans who support abortion, making disparaging comments about "pro-lifers" in the same way than omnivores do about vegans, really are hypocrites of the highest order.  You cannot be vegan on the grounds that you oppose the killing of sentient beings and then support the killing of unborn children.

 

 


Humans are Animals for a start.
 

And they aren't children they are fetuses. I certainly do not support late term abortion. I don't consider termination at 10 weeks, where the vast majority of terminations happen, that the fetus is sentient. I'd rather we didn;t have to have abortions at all and have vastly more advanced sex education and encouragement of contraception ,but then you can blame the idiots in the church for that.

 

Houndulation is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 Old 11-22-2012, 01:15 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:

Not attacking. Perceiving.

 

 

You have no idea of my life at all apart from me stating a bit about my own background.
 

 

Quote:

 

Your opinion, not mine.

 



No its sarcasm. I think you are a bit hard of thinking.


 

 

Quote:
Defined by yourself. Don't blame others for what you are.

 


So you are telling me how I define myself? I define myself in many ways, what I do is just one of them.

 

Quote:

Through deprivation. Get it?

 



No I don't 'get it'. If I am deprived of something then either I suffer because I am physically deprived (eg of food or shelter) or Mentally deprived ( eg)of social contact. How else can I suffer from deprivation?
 

 

Quote:
I think your posts are designed specifically to induce mental distress.

 

 

Then you would be wrong. I endeavour to be rational, rigourous and precise. If the side effect of that is your mental distress them I apologise but then I suggest an open forum is not for you just as my advanced years mean the boxing ring is no longer for me.

 

 

Quote:
You find it easy to laugh at and be sarcastic about the death of others.

 


Where have I done this?

 

 

Quote:
There is no problem with this.

 


Other than it being nonsense.


 

 

Quote:
But when you openly advocate the killing of others.

 


By 'others' you are referring to fetuses or to people who torture animals?

 

 

Quote:
I think you should be stopped,

 

Stopped doing what? Talking or doing. If its talking then tough because this is a forum. If its performing abortions then I don;t actually perform abortions, not being a doctor, nor have I ever procured one or cause one to be procured. I have also never killed an animal torturer although I have used violence on them.
 

 

Quote:
butt-cold.

 



Whatever that means.






 

Houndulation is offline  
#33 Old 11-22-2012, 04:25 AM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904

To everyone in the thread commenting on the pro-life perspective, I'd like to know what you think should be done to reduce abortion rates.

beatricious is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#34 Old 11-22-2012, 05:35 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
One recent study showed that long-term contraception, such as implantables or iuds, was pretty successful in reducing the unwanted pregnancy rate, especially in teens.
LedBoots is offline  
#35 Old 11-22-2012, 06:39 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

One recent study showed that long-term contraception, such as implantables or iuds, was pretty successful in reducing the unwanted pregnancy rate, especially in teens.

This would not only massively reduce unwanted pregnancy but also annoy religious fundamentalists.

Houndulation is offline  
#36 Old 11-22-2012, 06:54 AM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

One recent study showed that long-term contraception, such as implantables or iuds, was pretty successful in reducing the unwanted pregnancy rate, especially in teens.

I've heard that too. I wish there was more information about/access to the IUD. It seems like birth control pills are always the default method, which is fine, but an IUD is definitely less to think about.

beatricious is offline  
#37 Old 11-22-2012, 08:12 AM
Impeach the gangster
 
Capstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,052
Quote:

Originally Posted by Houndulation View Post

 

You have no idea of my life at all apart from me stating a bit about my own background. 

 

Your statements are more revealing than you know. You're not dealing with fools, friend.

 

 

Quote:

 No its sarcasm. I think you are a bit hard of thinking.

 

Your lack of respect for yourself is apparent even through your adolescent witicisms. You needn't be so blunt.

 

 

Quote:
 So you are telling me how I define myself? I define myself in many ways, what I do is just one of them.

 

No, you are  telling the world-at-large how you have defined yourself, thus far. Personally, I think you should redefine yourself.

 

 

Quote:
 No I don't 'get it'. If I am deprived of something then either I suffer because I am physically deprived (eg of food or shelter) or Mentally deprived ( eg)of social contact. How else can I suffer from deprivation? (Underscore mine.)

 

By being deprived of your life, your time, creativity, friends, etc. In other words, so that even you may understand, by being dead. Your assertion that life has no value is utterly meaningless. Maybe your life has no value to yourself, in which case, I pity you, but I find it inconceivable that any normal, speaking person could say it. As a philosophy, it can only lead to destruction. Life requires no validation from you nor anyone else. Too bad there are those who haven't yet realized it. Or perhaps I should say, remembered it.

 

 

Quote:
 Then you would be wrong. I endeavour to be rational, rigourous and precise. If the side effect of that is your mental distress them I apologise but then I suggest an open forum is not for you just as my advanced years mean the boxing ring is no longer for me.

 

You began this thread with an allusion to 'lively debate,'  then said you saw no reason to oppose abortion. Your error is the assumption that some forms of killing are acceptable as a solution to a problem that can be resolved in other ways. You are wise to not climb into a boxing ring, for surely you would be KOd, before the 1st-round bell could be rung.

 

I'll accept your apology, only if you'll take mine in return.

 

 

Quote:
Where have I done this?

 

In your previous reply to my previous post. Abortion is not a joking matter, for the simple reason that life DOES matter. There is nothing funny about it. I could have easily responded to your jibes in kind, but I think your misguided attempts at humor cause you to lose sight of the real issue.

 

 

Quote:
 Other than it being nonsense.

 

 Pardon me, but the nonsense is yours.

 

 

Quote:

By 'others' you are referring to fetuses or to people who torture animals?

 

Have you forgotten the topic, already?

 

Quote:

 Stopped doing what? Talking or doing. If its talking then tough because this is a forum. If its performing abortions then I don;t actually perform abortions, not being a doctor, nor have I ever procured one or cause one to be procured.

 

You may never have procured an abortion, but your advocasy of it may well have caused one to be procured, even since you began this thread.

 

 

Quote:

  I have also never killed an animal torturer although I have used violence on them.
 

 

I've never been in a situation like that, so I don't know. I may agree with your motivation, but I seriously question your action. Are you sure you didn't kill them?

 

 

Quote:

Whatever that means.
 

 

It's an Americanism. It means, unequivocally.

 

Pardon me, if I don't congratulate you on the judicious choices you have made, about who may live and who must die. And if you drag out the argument that the unborn are not people, I'll know for a certainty that you're a raving lunatic.

 

I notice you failed to addess some of the other points I raised. I hope they weren't too difficult for you, Houndulation.


"There is more wisdom in the song of a bird, than in the speech of a philosopher...." -Oahspe
"The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time." -Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels -Michael Shaara
"Anyone who doesn't believe in miracles isn't a realist." -Billy Wilder
Capstan is offline  
#38 Old 11-22-2012, 09:28 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ElaineV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,026

I am pro-choice because:

- I think legally it's the most practical and ethical way to ensure that women have personal bodily automomy; I understand and agree with the famous violinist thought experiement

- My experience with fostercare has made me well aware of what happens to children who are brought into this world into families who don't have the desire, means, or education necessary to care for them properly... I will support virtually anything to prevent this, including refraining from bringing these children into existence

- Statistics show that when abortion is legal, it's safer. Illegal back-alley abortions are dangerous for women.

 

 

However, I sympathyze with pro-lifers because:

- My experience with adoption has taught me there is an overabundance of people wanting to adopt healthy newborn babies

- I don't think I could get an abortion myself

 

 

Which leads me to conclude that:

- We ought to keep abortion legal. That means pro-choicers ought to do things like: voting in ways that support legalized abortion, contacting our representatives and letting them know how we feel, supporting abortion clinics and doctors who perform abortions, etc.

- We ought to work harder to prevent abortions. That means that pro-lifers ought to do things like: promote adoption, support needy families so they don't feel compelled to abort, teach sex education so there are fewer unplanned pregnancies, etc. 

ElaineV is offline  
#39 Old 11-22-2012, 12:46 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatricious View Post

To everyone in the thread commenting on the pro-life perspective, I'd like to know what you think should be done to reduce abortion rates.

 

Well, contraception is already available to anyone who is responsible enough to bother using it, including to teenagers who are below legal age.  The trouble is that a lot of girls and women don't bother because they know that they can get an abortion free of charge on the NHS; and again and again as often as they want, hence many women have multiple abortions without the slightest twinge of conscience.

 

The only way to instill responsibility and hence reduce the number of abortions carried out is to tighten the legislation back to what it was intended for the in first place in 1967.  An abortion should only be carried out where the mother's health is at risk.  Contraception should continue to be freely available but "social" abortions for reasons of lifestyle, eugenics etc should be illegal and children should be educated as such that abortion is not a "lifestyle choice".  Teenage girls should also be taught that there are better role models to aspire to in life than being a professional slut, like so many female "entertainers" are nowadays.

 

An abortion should always be referred to as just that not as a "termination", which is as much a clinical term of killing as is "collateral damage".

 

Now can you abortionists please explain how your views are consistent with your vegetarian ethics, assuming on the basis of what this website is called that you have any.

CovOx is offline  
#40 Old 11-22-2012, 12:52 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Wolfie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,850

I'd like to retroactively abort anyone who thinks a rape or incest victim should be forced to stay pregnant.

Werewolf Girl likes this.
Wolfie is offline  
#41 Old 11-22-2012, 12:53 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Wolfie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houndulation View Post

This would not only massively reduce unwanted pregnancy but also annoy religious fundamentalists.

 

It's a win-win then. :D

 

Some OB/GYNs think birth control pills should be available without a prescription. I'm all for that too.

Wolfie is offline  
#42 Old 11-22-2012, 01:08 PM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by CovOx View Post

 

Well, contraception is already available to anyone who is responsible enough to bother using it, including to teenagers who are below legal age.  The trouble is that a lot of girls and women don't bother because they know that they can get an abortion free of charge on the NHS; and again and again as often as they want, hence many women have multiple abortions without the slightest twinge of conscience.

 

Thanks in advance for providing peer-reviewed studies that document this phenomenon.

beatricious is offline  
#43 Old 11-22-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatricious View Post

 

Thanks in advance for providing peer-reviewed studies that document this phenomenon.

 

So sayeth the smug abortionist who closes her eyes to what is going on around her.

 

You still haven't explained how abortion is compatible with vegetarian ethics.

CovOx is offline  
#44 Old 11-22-2012, 01:25 PM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by CovOx View Post

 

So sayeth the smug abortionist who closes her eyes to what is going on around her.

 

I also live in a country where abortion is covered by the government, but I don't know any women who behave in the way you describe, so clearly it isn't "going around me." However, if I'm just being wilfully blind, surely it would be relatively easy to provide documented proof. 

 

 

 

Quote:
You still haven't explained how abortion is compatible with vegetarian ethics.

I'm not really interested in whether abortion is compatible with vegetarian ethics. I'm a vegetarian because I think it's wrong to kill sentient, independent beings for gustatory pleasure and because I think it's better for the environment. Abortion is compatible with both of those values; whether those values constitute "vegetarian ethics" is not really something I particularly care about.

beatricious is offline  
#45 Old 11-22-2012, 01:31 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Irizary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by CovOx View Post
Now can you abortionists please explain how your views are consistent with your vegetarian ethics, assuming on the basis of what this website is called that you have any.

 

I'm an animal rescuer and I would not hesitate to abort kitten fetuses, even late term, if you're somehow imagining that supporting abortion of unwanted fetuses only applies to the human animal.

 

And if you have a problem with that, then you know not one damn thing about what happens to unwanted cats here. 

 

It's about preventing suffering.  It has been said to you already that many vegans don't worship "life" just for the sake of being life.  Compassion dictates that you care about the quality of that life, not just that it exists.

 

I consider your words the words of someone who has not seen the tragedy of being born truly unwanted into the world.


"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Irizary is offline  
#46 Old 11-22-2012, 02:34 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Alibabble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 524

Argh, I can't believe I'm letting myself comment on this but here goes some of my thoughts.

 

I believe that there are many things worse than death. Therefor, life is not all important and necessary to conserve for me.

 

Initially, I became a vegetarian because I couldn't support the cruelty inherent in producing meat. As I assessed things I've expanded that to the egg and dairy industries. Admittedly, right now I'm a lacto-veg because my ED went crazy but I'll soon be working back to being vegan. So, for me, I'm interested in reducing suffering and caring about the quality of life not just the existence of life.

 

Abortion makes sense to me in terms of preserving the quality of life for the woman involved. Also, an unwanted fetus being brought to term isn't likely to experience a good quality of life. There are many unwanted children in the world already, we don't need to add more. 

 

Additionally, some people are acting like contraceptives have a 100% success rate and that pregnancy is easy. Neither of those are true statements. Contraceptives fail and pregnancy takes a toll on a woman's body. I can't imagine what those impacts would feel like if you were forced into a pregnancy, I'm in awe of what my SIL went through with her very desired pregnancy. Hell, pregnancy/labour can KILL you. That's not something anyone should be forced into.

Alibabble is offline  
#47 Old 11-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Jezebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vegan hell (aka France)
Posts: 235

I'd like to state that the burden of contraception shouldn't fall on the woman's shoulders, contrary to what so many people are wont to assign. It takes 2 to have sex and become pregnant. Men are woefully uneducated when it comes to contraception and totally don't care, from my experience. Just because it's woman birth control we're talking about doesn't mean men don't have to be actively involved.

 

I'm tired of reading about the hackneyed fact of "lifestyle abortions". This one is just so plain stupid, that well, I can't even.

And let's not breech the subject of slut-shaming either.

Jezebel is offline  
#48 Old 11-22-2012, 06:08 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:
Your statements are more revealing than you know. You're not dealing with fools, friend.

 

 

I beg to differ.
 

 

Quote:

 

Your lack of respect for yourself is apparent even through your adolescent witicisms. You needn't be so blunt.

 

I have no idea what absurd cod psychology you are into but you are clearly in some other realm here.
 

 

Quote:
By being deprived of your life, your time, creativity, friends, etc. In other words, so that even you may understand, by being dead.

 



Dead people can't suffer. Try again.
 

 

Quote:
Too bad there are those who haven't yet realized it. Or perhaps I should say, remembered it.

 

 



What do you mean 'remembered it'


 

 

Quote:
You may never have procured an abortion, but your advocasy of it may well have caused one to be procured, even since you began this thread.

 



Rather unlikley. But if a woman has been helped to make her own choice then Ill be delighted. I do not advocate abortion I advocate arming women with as many choices as possible.
 

 

Quote:
ou are wise to not climb into a boxing ring, for surely you would be KOd, before the 1st-round bell could be rung.

 

 

 

at 45, yes I don;t box anymore but if this some allusion to your own opinion of your debating skills then think again.

 

 

Quote:

In your previous reply to my previous post. Abortion is not a joking matter, for the simple reason that life DOES matter. There is nothing funny about it. I could have easily responded to your jibes in kind, but I think your misguided attempts at humor cause you to lose sight of the real issue.

 


Where is the joke. I am presuming you can't actually find one and that life does matter is merely your assertion.


 

Quote:

 

Have you forgotten the topic, already?

 


NO

 

 

Quote:
I've never been in a situation like that, so I don't know. I may agree with your motivation, but I seriously question your action. Are you sure you didn't kill them?

 



I really don't care if you question my action.  I saw two men hanging a dog by its neck beating it to death to eat it. That they weren't more seriously injured is only a testimony to their faster speed. They probably escaped with a couple of fractures. If they died I don't care.
 

 

Quote:
It's an Americanism. It means, unequivocally.

 



I see you were unable to comment any further on what you would stop me doing and how you are going to stop me.



 

 

 

Houndulation is offline  
#49 Old 11-22-2012, 06:44 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:
Well, contraception is already available to anyone who is responsible enough to bother using it, including to teenagers who are below legal age.  The trouble is that a lot of girls and women don't bother because they know that they can get an abortion free of charge on the NHS; and again and again as often as they want, hence many women have multiple abortions without the slightest twinge of conscience.

 



In the UK, yes, along with other responsible European countries. I would suggest in the UK that those who don't use don't use it because they think that they can just get an abortion (although I concede that this might account for some) but they are just irresponsible people. I think that we need a cultural change so that using an iud or getting depoprovera injections is considered the utter norm and that one should actually make a conscious decision that one wants to get pregnant and be temporarily removed from it. Obviously(and unfortunately) we can't actually make it compulsory but a large amount of 'soft power' can be brought to bear and the only people who seriously object are likeley to be religious types who don't have extra marital sex anyway.


 

Quote:

 

The only way to instill responsibility and hence reduce the number of abortions carried out is to tighten the legislation back to what it was intended for the in first place in 1967.  An abortion should only be carried out where the mother's health is at risk.  Contraception should continue to be freely available but "social" abortions for reasons of lifestyle, eugenics etc should be illegal and children should be educated as such that abortion is not a "lifestyle choice".  Teenage girls should also be taught that there are better role models to aspire to in life than being a professional slut, like so many female "entertainers" are nowadays.

 

Wow. I thought I was getting on in years. Yes its that bang bang rock and roll music, all those african rythmns and gyrating hips.......hump.gif
joking aside. Taught by whom? The girls I grew up with from  middle class families never had unwanted pregnancies but they had knowledgable concerned parents. Its the marginalised kids who have the problems, they are the children, often, of unprotected sex themselves, growing up in the benefits system with incompetent parenting.

 

Quote:

 

An abortion should always be referred to as just that not as a "termination", which is as much a clinical term of killing as is "collateral damage".

 


They are both clinical terms one is the latio for 'not born' and the other is the latin for 'a stopping'. One clinical term moved so much into the norm of conversation that another was brought in.Remember when people didn't want to say 'crippled' so they brought in 'Spastic' then that became politically incorrect so they brought in a plethora of replacements? I agree in that I don't use 'termination' because I don't like euphamisms
 

 

Quote:
Now can you abortionists please explain how your views are consistent with your vegetarian ethics, assuming on the basis of what this website is called that you have any.



Oh dear! another who beleives that anyone who's ethics are different just don't have any.

Anyway. I don't have 'vegetarian ethics' I have ethics which lead me to become a vegetarian. My ethics are stated at the start of this thread but ill restate.

Firstly I am against suffering (except in those who deliberately cause suffering to animals or innocent people in which case I am very pro suffering). I am veg*n because I object to the incredible suffering inherrant in the whole business of meat eating. It is not the killing I object to. It is the suffering involved in the whole process.

Houndulation is offline  
#50 Old 11-22-2012, 07:48 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ElaineV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,026

In regards to ethical consistency regarding being both pro-choice and vegan, I have these thoughts:

 

- It is possible to think that something should be legal while also believing that thing is unethical. There are different standards for "should be legal/ should not be illegal" and for "I won't do it/ that is immoral to do."

 

- Veganism is about preventing unecessary pain and death to existing sentient beings as much as practical and possible. It is not about forcing some sentient beings (pregnant women) to endure pain and potentially death in order to prevent other possibly/ debatably/ probably not sentient beings (fetuses) pain and death.

 

- Analogy: unwanted pregnancy for a woman who wants an abortion likely feels at least a little similar to how living in a gestation crate might feel to a sow. Forcing either to endure this type of pregnancy is cruel.

Werewolf Girl likes this.
ElaineV is offline  
#51 Old 11-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738

The important issue is whether the suffering of the fetus is outweighed by the suffering of the mother.

I agree with the above that morality and legality shouldn't always be the same thing. If a women is pregnant through her own recklessness, though I support her right to abort there is suffering entailed but the moral fault was in the reckless behaviour not the action that had to be taken afterwards.

By reckless behaviour I mean failure to adequately protect against pregnancy in a situation where a pregnancy would cause undue suffering.

Houndulation is offline  
#52 Old 11-22-2012, 10:47 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 144

The last thing that I am going to say on this thread is that defending the abortion industry is just as morally reprehensible as defending the meat industry.  Both make a living out of killing and both like portray their opponents as fanatics.  I have to go to work - some of in this country have to - adios.

CovOx is offline  
#53 Old 11-22-2012, 10:54 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jezebel View Post

I'd like to state that the burden of contraception shouldn't fall on the woman's shoulders, contrary to what so many people are wont to assign. It takes 2 to have sex and become pregnant. Men are woefully uneducated when it comes to contraception and totally don't care, from my experience. Just because it's woman birth control we're talking about doesn't mean men don't have to be actively involved.

 


     It takes two to become pregnant but only one has to carry it. Any woman who relies on any extent whatsoever for her partner to ensure contraception is incredibly naive or reckless to the extreme in the name of political correctness. It isn't going to happen.


 

 

Quote:

 

And let's not breech the subject of slut-shaming either.

 


Actually yes lets.  I think the term, so used, is an offence against an individuals right to engage in whatever consensual sexual activity they wish. Women have every right to their own expressions of sexuality and using slut to describe women who have  a sexual behaviour inconsistent with the conservative ideal is just not acceptable.



 

Houndulation is offline  
#54 Old 11-23-2012, 04:35 AM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by CovOx View Post

The last thing that I am going to say on this thread is that defending the abortion industry is just as morally reprehensible as defending the meat industry.  Both make a living out of killing and both like portray their opponents as fanatics.  I have to go to work - some of in this country have to - adios.


A+ flounce.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houndulation View Post


     It takes two to become pregnant but only one has to carry it. Any woman who relies on any extent whatsoever for her partner to ensure contraception is incredibly naive or reckless to the extreme in the name of political correctness. It isn't going to happen.
 

 

I don't know - I think to a certain extent this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It depends on your partner and the relationship you have. I know, for instance, that there are new developments in male birth control that are extremely effective and relatively symptomless, and I know a lot of guys who would be more than willing to use some of them. My boyfriend has a child from a previous relationship. He's probably more anxious than I am to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

 

I also think there should be more of a cultural expectation for men to share the cost of birth control.

 

Quote:

Actually yes lets.  I think the term, so used, is an offence against an individuals right to engage in whatever consensual sexual activity they wish. Women have every right to their own expressions of sexuality and using slut to describe women who have  a sexual behaviour inconsistent with the conservative ideal is just not acceptable

 

Just so it's clear, Jezebel agrees with you. She's not calling women who have a sex life "sluts," she's saying that people who criticize women for having a sex life are "slut shamers," which is a sort of snarky term that came out of the online feminist community. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming

beatricious is offline  
#55 Old 11-23-2012, 05:05 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Jezebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vegan hell (aka France)
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatricious View Post

Just so it's clear, Jezebel agrees with you. She's not calling women who have a sex life "sluts," she's saying that people who criticize women for having a sex life are "slut shamers," which is a sort of snarky term that came out of the online feminist community. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming

Exactly! yes.gif Thanks for the clarification, beatricious.

Jezebel is offline  
#56 Old 11-23-2012, 10:41 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Quote:
Just so it's clear, Jezebel agrees with you

 


I realised that. It was OVcox I was actually replying to even though it was set off by Jezabels not wanting to discuss it but thanks anyway.

 

Quote:
I don't know - I think to a certain extent this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It depends on your partner and the relationship you have. I know, for instance, that there are new developments in male birth control that are extremely effective and relatively symptomless, and I know a lot of guys who would be more than willing to use some of them. My boyfriend has a child from a previous relationship. He's probably more anxious than I am to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

 



If you have a serious monogamous long term relationship then by all means work out between you whatever is best. If you haven't then you would incredibly stupid to expect a temporary partner to take care of things.

 

Quote:

I also think there should be more of a cultural expectation for men to share the cost of birth control.

 



What cost? Oh sorry you must be in the USA. There is no cost in the UK for birth control. IUD, Pill, minipill, IUD, cervical cap condoms... all free. In Thailand it is heavily subsidised so Depoprovera for a year costs about 10 US dollars.

What do they make you pay in the US ofA

Houndulation is offline  
#57 Old 11-23-2012, 11:47 AM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904

 

Quote:
If you have a serious monogamous long term relationship then by all means work out between you whatever is best. If you haven't then you would incredibly stupid to expect a temporary partner to take care of things.

 

Well, definitely I agree with you there.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houndulation View Post

What cost? Oh sorry you must be in the USA. There is no cost in the UK for birth control. IUD, Pill, minipill, IUD, cervical cap condoms... all free. In Thailand it is heavily subsidised so Depoprovera for a year costs about 10 US dollars.

What do they make you pay in the US ofA

 

I'm Canadian. I have insurance and I get my BC at Planned Parenthood so it ends up being only $4/month for me ($10/month without insurance). But if you go to a "regular" pharmacy it can be quite a bit more expensive, especially if you aren't covered. Once I had to get my BC at Shoppers because they were sold out at PP and it was maybe $30 without insurance? I've always found it a bit weird that abortion is free but we have to pay for birth control... 

beatricious is offline  
#58 Old 11-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738

So you want your partner to be responsible for some of  the 4 dollars a month you pay?
 

Houndulation is offline  
#59 Old 11-24-2012, 04:51 AM
Veggie Regular
 
beatricious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houndulation View Post

So you want your partner to be responsible for some of  the 4 dollars a month you pay?

 

Why shouldn't he be? People in committed relationships should split the cost of birth control just like they share the cost of rent and dinners out. They both benefit. I'm not so rich that I'll turn my nose up at an extra $24 a year.

In any case, I wasn't necessarily talking about myself - obviously my birth control is very cheap - but for women who have to pay $30 or more a month, that's a significant cost and their partners should absolutely help pay for it.
beatricious is offline  
#60 Old 11-24-2012, 10:00 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 738

If you are part of a relationship where you pool your money the obviously you costs will be jointly met.

If you are not living together then you have no chance. Just as men don't get their girlfriends to jointly meet the costs of running his car.

24 Dollars a year? If you were my partner and you needed the money I would just give you 24 dollars, not because I owed it to you but because its a trifling amount, vastly less than a decent meal for two.

Houndulation is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off