And more nonsense that US congressmen apparently believe *trigger warning* - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-19-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote from this article

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s-congressman-questions-if-women-can-get-pregnant-from-rape-1.920869

[ Akin(Missouri Congressman Todd Akin), who has said he's Missouri's most conservative congressman, indicated there may be an exception to his stance against abortion. But, when asked if he supported abortions for women who have been raped, Akin said: "It seems to me first of all from what I understand from doctors that's really rare."

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin said of a rape victim's chances of becoming pregnant.]

 

Are you KIDDING ME??!?!?!?!?!?!

 

HOW?

HOW?

HOW did this person get elected and HOW HOW HOW does anyone get this ridiculous IDEA?!?!?!?!



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#2 Old 08-19-2012, 06:45 PM
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I had no idea it was so easy to "shut that whole thing down" whenever we want. I've been wasting a fortune on birth control apparently.

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#3 Old 08-20-2012, 11:59 AM
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The Onion responded to this in their usual hilarious and accurate way, the last quote is gold:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/congressman-pregnancy-rarely-results-from-legitima,29249/

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#4 Old 08-20-2012, 02:18 PM
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"rape not leading to conception" has been actively used by the more extreme anti-choice folks for 25+ years. See: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/a-canard-that-will-not-die-legitimate-rape-doesnt-cause-pregnancy/261303/


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#5 Old 08-20-2012, 04:46 PM
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You may want to label this as a triggering thread please.
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#6 Old 08-20-2012, 04:50 PM
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"rape not leading to conception" has been actively used by the more extreme anti-choice folks for 25+ years. See: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/a-canard-that-will-not-die-legitimate-rape-doesnt-cause-pregnancy/261303/

This seriously explains so much. Suddenly all these attempts to ban birth control and punish women for having miscarriages make sense.

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You may want to label this as a triggering thread please.

Done.

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#7 Old 08-20-2012, 05:11 PM
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The GOP isn't too happy with him: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/20/us-usa-politics-abortion-idINBRE87J04A20120820

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#8 Old 08-20-2012, 05:14 PM
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I have mixed feelings about Obama, but that statement pleases me.

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#9 Old 08-20-2012, 09:55 PM
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So far Akin seems to be resisting calls to drop out of the race for the MO senate seat. He has until 5pm tomorrow (8/21) to drop out without penalty. Best case scenario is that he stubbornly decides to stay in the race, which virtually guarantees a win by his Democratic (and incidentally female) opponent. Before today the seat, currently Democratic, was considered vulnerable.


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#10 Old 08-21-2012, 10:49 AM
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I have mixed feelings about Obama, but that statement pleases me.
Yes me too, but the fact that the President walked into the press room for a very rare impromptu press conference to talk about this smacks of pure politics. Especially since the Democratic opponent in this race is a good friend of Obama's. I really hate politics and politicians more and more each election cycle.
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#11 Old 08-21-2012, 09:51 PM
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The Onion responded to this in their usual hilarious and accurate way, the last quote is gold:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/congressman-pregnancy-rarely-results-from-legitima,29249/


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#12 Old 08-22-2012, 11:51 AM
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It's not that "Congressmen" believe this, that makes it sound like if you get yourself a seat in Congress you believe this.

Doesn't this just reflect the problem of we the people who put someone like that into the political position?

 

I would never defend those ridiculous words of his, but I would rather address the core problem this is coming from: Every corrupt, incompetent, and unwilling politician is an example that we need to do some major house cleaning.

Sound good?


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#13 Old 08-22-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:

Doesn't this just reflect the problem of we the people who put someone like that into the political position?

 

Thing is, he does represent the view of a certain constituency. Not necessarily in the wording he used, but in the general idea that pregnancy rarely results from rape, and even if it does, abortion should not be permissable. The idea that there should be no exception for rape is pretty mainstream in anti-abortion circles, which wasn't so as few as 15-20 years ago, when it was a belief held by a fringe component of those circles. Now it's in the Republican party platform. Actually it's been there before, but I think they'd hope no one noticed. Heck, what Akin said isn't that different from the language put forward in 2011 (with 2012 VP nominee Paul Ryan as a co-sponsor), which sought to limit the rape exception to "forcible" rape.


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#14 Old 08-23-2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in MPLS View Post

Quote:

Doesn't this just reflect the problem of we the people who put someone like that into the political position?

 

Thing is, he does represent the view of a certain constituency. Not necessarily in the wording he used, but in the general idea that pregnancy rarely results from rape, and even if it does, abortion should not be permissable. The idea that there should be no exception for rape is pretty mainstream in anti-abortion circles, which wasn't so as few as 15-20 years ago, when it was a belief held by a fringe component of those circles. Now it's in the Republican party platform. Actually it's been there before, but I think they'd hope no one noticed. Heck, what Akin said isn't that different from the language put forward in 2011 (with 2012 VP nominee Paul Ryan as a co-sponsor), which sought to limit the rape exception to "forcible" rape.

The Republican party platform on abortion has remained unchanged since 1980, when it was first drafted. It does not mention rape, incest, or endangered life of the mother. This is it:

The party's official position, as approved by the committee:

"Faithful to the 'self-evident' truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children."

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#15 Old 08-23-2012, 05:45 AM
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We support a human life amendment to the Constitution

 

Which would make abortion criminal, no exception. That's what "the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children" would result in. All the news coverage I've seen has described the plank this way.


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#16 Old 08-23-2012, 08:17 AM
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To view the changes in the unchanging Republican platform on abortion 1976-1992 vist http://andrsn.stanford.edu/Abortion/Platform_Planks.html

 

Admittedly, most of these changes are matters of wording, not substance. Hmm ... I wonder what that "human life amendment" thing that keeps popping up is all about? Here's a pdf. Oh, often (usually even) it's just another way of saying fertilized eggs are people too. Which it is widely acknowledged prohibits the "rape and incest" exceptions.


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#17 Old 08-23-2012, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in MPLS View Post

To view the changes in the unchanging Republican platform on abortion 1976-1992 vist http://andrsn.stanford.edu/Abortion/Platform_Planks.html

 

Admittedly, most of these changes are matters of wording, not substance. Hmm ... I wonder what that "human life amendment" thing that keeps popping up is all about? Here's a pdf. Oh, often (usually even) it's just another way of saying fertilized eggs are people too. Which it is widely acknowledged prohibits the "rape and incest" exceptions.

I wasn't defending their platform. I remember when they came out with it for Reagan's first election, when the conservative Christians were effectively taking over the Republican party. There was a lot of infighting amongst Repubs. Some less conservative Republicans believe that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape, incest, or risk to the mother's life. This is Romney's position, but not ultra-conservative Ryan's.

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#18 Old 08-23-2012, 09:36 AM
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Apparently even the RNC isn't quite sure. They're now stating (in response to reports in the wake of the Akin controversy) that the plank is neutral on exceptions. But former chair Michael Steele backs up a "no exceptions" interpretation. http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/rnc-abortion-platform-rape-incest.php?ref=fpb


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#19 Old 08-24-2012, 06:14 AM
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I actually think allowing for an exception in case of rape is pretty inconsistent. If you believe a fetus is a human life, why should the circumstances of its conception make it less worthy of protection? Seems to me that it's more about punishing slutty sluts for having consensual sex than about saving lives.

 

Also, it bears mentioning that a rape exception would be completely impossible to administer anyway. Rape is notoriously difficult to prove, and any woman claiming she was raped in order to get an abortion would presumably need to provide evidence and someone would need to decide whether she was telling the truth or not, which could take months, by the end of which it would be too late to get an abortion. Even conservatives who say they support a rape exception are just paying lip service - they know that it would be functionally the same as criminalizing abortion in all circumstances.

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#20 Old 08-24-2012, 10:16 AM
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Also, it bears mentioning that a rape exception would be completely impossible to administer anyway. Rape is notoriously difficult to prove, and any woman claiming she was raped in order to get an abortion would presumably need to provide evidence and someone would need to decide whether she was telling the truth or not, which could take months, by the end of which it would be too late to get an abortion. Even conservatives who say they support a rape exception are just paying lip service - they know that it would be functionally the same as criminalizing abortion in all circumstances.

 

The woman behind the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade actually claimed rape because at the time, Texas allowed abortion in cases of rape.

 

Texas denied the abortion because their was no evidence of a rape.

 

It later turned out that she lied about the rape in order to try to get an abortion.

 

I think that proves the unworkability of a rape exception - people will lie to get it (potentially putting other people at risk of being prosecuted for a crime they didn't do), and the state will deny abortion to anyone who doesn't have evidence for a rape (and considering how many rape victims don't report their crimes, many legitimate rape victims are going to have trouble proving a rape).

 

(More information - the "Roe" behind Roe vs. Wade is now a pro-life Christian who has attempted to limit abortion rights.)

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