Are you opposed to eating oysters? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 06-22-2012, 04:19 AM
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Based on personal experience I'm not sure if they feel pain the same way as we do but I think they do know when they're being attacked.

This this this.
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#32 Old 06-22-2012, 09:58 AM
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They are cute aren't they :)

 

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Starfish!!!?? Please don't eat them!!
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#33 Old 06-22-2012, 10:08 AM
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I have been vegan for four years and recently discovered that oysters do not have a central nervous system. This seems to imply beyond a reasonable doubt that they cannot feel pain and have no consciousness.

 

Oysters are animals. Veg*ns do not eat animals.  Regardless of their awareness or lack thereof. 

 

If you eat animals, you are not veg*n.

 

Very simple. You must be a veg*n to post on this board. If you are eating oysters, you are not veg*n, and therefore should not be a member here.

 

Did I mention that veg*n don't eat animals?....


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#34 Old 06-22-2012, 10:12 AM
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Thanks everyone for your replies. The main reason provided for not eating them seems to be dogmatic. Yes I know it feels weird I feel the same way. However given that scientists can guarantee that they are as likely as plants to feel pain and be conscious (which is pretty unlikely) I think we would be irrational to avoid eating them (except perhaps out of preference). I do not think such avoidance would be based on reason or our principles it would based on unreasonable feelings (and I have them too). If the scientists gave me such info I would be very likely to start eating them despite those unreliable feelings. I suppose you don't have to follow me in such a case but you should realize that such a diet would be ethically equivalent to yours/ours!

 

As has been stated before I don't think reacting to your environment can be said to entail ability to suffer or consciousness. I believe some plants do that and even the door at the supermarket "knows" when I am in front of it. Thanks again.

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#35 Old 06-22-2012, 10:13 AM
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I am not understanding why "non-sentience" is somehow associated with not eating for a vegan. An oyster is an animal. Vegans do not eat animals. Just because science states that they do not have central nervous systems, that just makes them an "unusual" animal.

 

If a person who claims to be a vegan is so enthusiastic about finding an animal to consume, I postulate that that person might as well be an omivore, and eat anything alive.

 

For that matter, why not eat worms? Why not? They are far more plentiful, and probably just as tasty.

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#36 Old 06-22-2012, 10:24 AM
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well, what your opinion of dogmatic or dogma is, i call my attempt at living a life causing the least harm possible (and i am a fruitarian, lol).

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#37 Old 06-22-2012, 10:27 AM
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LOL

If this board bans people for asking questions on eating animals that feel no pain, have no desire to live, have no awareness (i.e. are like plants for all ethical purposes) then the sooner I am banned the less time I would waste (and I am not saying it is)! I am asking for ethical reasons to avoid eating animals that feel no pain and have no consciousness. If someone prefers to ban me rather than give me reasons I seek then the forum would be either hypocritical or a cult. You might as well make a forum for people who are only allowed to take showers at 1-2pm on Monday, 2-3pm on Tuesday,..., 7-8pm on Sunday and ban all violators. And I am not saying that the forum is those things I am merely telling you what it would be if your suggested reaction was true.

 

 

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Oysters are animals. Veg*ns do not eat animals.  regarless of there awareness or lack thereof. 

 

If you eat animals, you are not veg*n.

 

Very simple. You must be a veg*n to post on this board. If you are eating oysters, you are not veg*n, and therefore should not be a member here.

 

Did I mention that veg*n don't eat animals?....

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#38 Old 06-22-2012, 10:29 AM
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well, what your opinion of dogmatic or dogma is, i call my attempt at living a life causing the least harm possible (and i am a fruitarian, lol).


:O Really a frutarian? Is that like a certain percentage wise? Cuz I know some fruitarians only eat about 50-90% fruits and seeds and such....o_o


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#39 Old 06-22-2012, 10:33 AM
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Again, I avoid eating animals because I do not wish to cause suffering whether physical or psychological. However, if there are animals that are incapable of suffering, having desires, and being aware then I see no reason to avoid eating them. If I ate animals with a brain on the other hand I would be causing suffering and killing someone who wants to live. That goes against my principles! Do you see the difference? If not account for eating plants!

 

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I am not understanding why "non-sentience" is somehow associated with not eating for a vegan. An oyster is an animal. Vegans do not eat animals. Just because science states that they do not have central nervous systems, that just makes them an "unusual" animal.

 

If a person who claims to be a vegan is so enthusiastic about finding an animal to consume, I postulate that that person might as well be an omivore, and eat anything alive.

 

For that matter, why not eat worms? Why not? They are far more plentiful, and probably just as tasty.

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#40 Old 06-22-2012, 10:36 AM
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If the scientists gave me such info I would be very likely to start eating them despite those unreliable feelings.

I don't get it. Why would you want to eat oysters? Do you feel you're missing something nutritionally that they might provide? Is it because you heard they taste good? Some other reason?

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#41 Old 06-22-2012, 10:37 AM
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:O Really a frutarian? Is that like a certain percentage wise? Cuz I know some fruitarians only eat about 50-90% fruits and seeds and such....o_o

Yeah, fruitarians eat 75%+ fruit-based diet.  I eat lot of greens, too.  :)

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#42 Old 06-22-2012, 10:37 AM
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LOL

If this board bans people for asking questions on eating animals that feel no pain, have no desire to live, have no awareness (i.e. are like plants for all ethical purposes) then the sooner I am banned the less time I would waste (and I am not saying it is)! I am asking for ethical reasons to avoid eating animals that feel no pain and have no consciousness. If someone prefers to ban me rather than give me reasons I seek then the forum would be either hypocritical or a cult. You might as well make a forum for people who are only allowed to take showers at 1-2pm on Monday, 2-3pm on Tuesday,..., 7-8pm on Sunday and ban all violators. And I am not saying that the forum is those things I am merely telling you what it would be if your suggested reaction was true.

 

 

There is a valid reason why this board only allows vegetarians. in short, we've had onmis join in the past just for the sole purpose of causing trouble.

 

Usually they start out claiming to be vegetarians, and then make some statement questioning some aspect of vegetarianism.

 

Your post seems to follow that pattern.


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#43 Old 06-22-2012, 10:37 AM
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well, what your opinion of dogmatic or dogma is, i call my attempt at living a life causing the least harm possible (and i am a fruitarian, lol).

 

I do respect your beliefs but I don't think I would consider it harm to use non-sentient things/beings as we see fit. But my point about the dogma was eating non-sentient plants while avoiding non-sentient animals.

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#44 Old 06-22-2012, 10:42 AM
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I have a question for everyone. A while back there was an article about scientists producing meat in a lab (I believe only muscle cells). Such meat causes harm to no one in my view. Do you agree? Would you eat such meat if it was affordable?

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#45 Old 06-22-2012, 10:43 AM
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They seem to be quite nutritious and they may taste good (I have never actually eaten them). So my reason is that they can add a healthy dense nutrition source to my diet that might taste good without hurting anyone.

 

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I don't get it. Why would you want to eat oysters? Do you feel you're missing something nutritionally that they might provide? Is it because you heard they taste good? Some other reason?

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#46 Old 06-22-2012, 10:44 AM
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I have a question for everyone. A while back there was an article about scientists producing meat in a lab (I believe only muscle cells). Such meat causes harm to no one in my view. Do you agree? Would you eat such meat if it was affordable?

Would you? I wouldn't.

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#47 Old 06-22-2012, 10:47 AM
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I have no problem with questioning so long as it is done respectfully. Debate is the means to progress. I am not afraid to defend my views and I will not stick my head in the sand. If that gets me banned so be it!

 

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There is a valid reason why this board only allows vegetarians. in short, we've had onmis join in the past just for the sole purpose of causing trouble.

 

Usually they start out claiming to be vegetarians, and then make some statement questioning some aspect of vegetarianism.

 

Your post seems to follow that pattern.

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#48 Old 06-22-2012, 10:48 AM
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They seem to be quite nutritious and they may taste good (I have never actually eaten them). So my reason is that they can add a healthy dense nutrition source to my diet that might taste good without hurting anyone.

What is it they would add nutritionally that you're lacking on your current vegan diet? Really, it just seems you just want to eat an animal for whatever reason or you're making this whole thing up.

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#49 Old 06-22-2012, 10:48 AM
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I have a question for everyone. A while back there was an article about scientists producing meat in a lab (I believe only muscle cells). Such meat causes harm to no one in my view. Do you agree? Would you eat such meat if it was affordable?


I personally wouldn't. Don't forget, that it in order to get those cells they may have had to kill an animal. So while it may spare thousands of other animals, 1 still may have had to die. If they could collect the cells firsthand without harming an animal, then I would see less ethical objection with eating it...but it still sounds kinda lurid and almost like a sci fi movie and all I can see is the meat mutating into something crazy and then that will be the start of the real zombie apocalypse. thinking.gif


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#50 Old 06-22-2012, 10:49 AM
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I most definitely would. I am vegan for ethical reasons not to join a cult. If eating meat (as in this case) was ethically equivalent to veganism then I would most certainly do it!

 

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Would you? I wouldn't.

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#51 Old 06-22-2012, 10:51 AM
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If eating meat (as in this case) was ethically equivalent to veganism then I would most certainly do it!

 

But why? I'm not understanding why you would want to.

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#52 Old 06-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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I assumed the cells would be collected in non cruel ways from free animals (perhaps an animal that died of natural causes). So no animals were killed and no cruelty was done to anyone. Let's assume there are no ethical issues in collecting the initial cells!

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I personally wouldn't. Don't forget, that it in order to get those cells they may have had to kill an animal. So while it may spare thousands of other animals, 1 still may have had to die. If they could collect the cells firsthand without harming an animal, then I would see less ethical objection with eating it...but it still sounds kinda lurid and almost like a sci fi movie and all I can see is the meat mutating into something crazy and then that will be the start of the real zombie apocalypse. thinking.gif

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#53 Old 06-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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Building on my last comment that I'm pretty sure that they know when they're in trouble, basically I was in the virgin islands when I was like 9 or 10 years old and I collected a few digging mussels in a cup of sea water, I left it on my beach chair in the sun and forgot about it, then when I came back the water had become extremely hot and I immediately ran and dumped them into the water. Now normally these things dig themselves into the sand at a snails pace, but when I put them back in the ocean they disappeared under the sand in seconds. Purely anecdotal I know but that told me that they at least know when they're in trouble. 

 

And again, oysters,muscles,clams are all animals. Veg*ns don't eat animals, it's pretty straightforward. 

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#54 Old 06-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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But why? I'm not understanding why you would want to.


Probably because veganism is based upon not harming and if it doesn't harm an animal (though I put out there that it may have to in the first place) it would be no different than eating vegetables.

 

Some people still have a craving for meat and would love to go back to it if it didn't harm an animal....but like i said...lol sounds kinda creepy. lab meat....


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#55 Old 06-22-2012, 10:55 AM
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Variety is always good! I might as well ask you to stop eating potatoes as you can get everything from other sources.

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What is it they would add nutritionally that you're lacking on your current vegan diet? Really, it just seems you just want to eat an animal for whatever reason or you're making this whole thing up.

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#56 Old 06-22-2012, 10:55 AM
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Some of my replies did not get through and will probably be posted later (being held for moderation as I am a new member).

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#57 Old 06-22-2012, 10:56 AM
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Building on my last comment that I'm pretty sure that they know when they're in trouble, basically I was in the virgin islands when I was like 9 or 10 years old and I collected a few digging mussels in a cup of sea water, I left it on my beach chair in the sun and forgot about it, then when I came back the water had become extremely hot and I immediately ran and dumped them into the water. Now normally these things dig themselves into the sand at a snails pace, but when I put them back in the ocean they disappeared under the sand in seconds. So that's basically how I came to the conclusion that they are a lot more aware than we'd like to think. 


But wouldn't that be simply a reaction to their environment? Sort of like how plants react to their environment by bending toward the light or a venus fly trap closing it's mouth? In my honest thought, they are not aware and simply possess nerves and mechanisms that, given the right circumstances, react to their environment. Another example, it's like how our skin tans when it gets a lot of sun, and I'm pretty sure, and hope that my skin isn't aware. :)


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#58 Old 06-22-2012, 10:57 AM
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Some of my posts did not get through.

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#59 Old 06-22-2012, 10:59 AM
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Variety is always good! I might as well ask you to stop eating potatoes as you can get everything from other sources.


I agree Cato xD

 

Plant, you are more so taking a dogmatic approach to veganism. While I respect it, there has to be a "WHY" can't we eat this or that. It is a rule that vegans don't eat animals or their products. Why do we not eat animals or their products? Because it harms the animals. So what if an organism classified as an animal could not feel pain and suffering and was not aware? The question is WHY should we not eat them, and many of us have already given our answers as to why we shouldn't.


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#60 Old 06-22-2012, 11:11 AM
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Not saying I'm opposed to it, but it will never fit into the definition of veg*nism. 

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