Father of 30 wants help... - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
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#61 Old 05-21-2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fadeaway1289 View Post

Unfortunately the ones that suffer the most are the children.

Exactly.

And that's why it's not OK to say:
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Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post

I don't care how many kids people have, as long as I don't have to pay for them. Not my choice and I shouldn't have to chip in.

It's like saying you shouldn't ever have to be responsible for helping anyone out. Remember, the kids are the ones who get hurt in this equation.

An analogy: a landlord is careless and he doesn't maintain his property. 30 of the residents at his apartment building get hurt because of it. They fall down the stairs because the stair railings were loose and they broke their legs. Same day, the landlord gets hit by a car and dies. He has assets but unfortunately he was a bit of a nutter and he buried his gold in the desert and no one can find it. So... would it be OK to just say, "No! My tax dollars don't go to help those people get leg casts and physical therapy. I didn't create the problem so I shouldn't have to fix it!" Probably not. We live together in a society precisely to help each other, to act as a bit of insurance for one another if we're given a raw deal in life. We pay taxes in order to help people who can't help themselves, like needy kids. It's not OK to just turn our backs on the members of our society who need us most.
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#62 Old 05-21-2012, 10:19 PM
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So we should just allow people to breed like rabbits and keep paying for it?

I'll gladly send a donation to neuter this guy and spay all his women.
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#63 Old 05-21-2012, 11:24 PM
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Why hasn't this guy appeared on Maury yet?!
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#64 Old 05-21-2012, 11:43 PM
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He's... umm... a little busy right now.
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#65 Old 05-22-2012, 12:07 AM
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Working a minimum wage job and getting more women pregnant?
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#66 Old 05-22-2012, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Limes View Post

What does the pregnancy have to do with it? Once the kid is out in the world, the parents are both equally responsible. He chose to have unprotected sex with those women multiple times, and yes, they chose to have unprotected sex too. Maybe he's a real charmer, and the women didn't care that he was getting around, but they still only had 2-3 kids each with him. That's a normal amount of pregnancies for a woman to go through. So, why are the women to blame? They're not required to keep tabs on how many other kids he's making, and shut their legs accordingly.

Two things:

1. It is exclusively the choice of the woman if she allows a pregnancy to go full term or not.

2. All other things aside it was exclusively the women who chose to go full term with those pregnancies.

Tie those two things together and, although it is fair to say that the pregnancies were equal man/woman fault, the resultant children were exclusively the choice of the women.

The women in question are thus exclusively to blame.
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#67 Old 05-22-2012, 02:21 AM
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No. That's not how it works. Good try though.
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#68 Old 05-22-2012, 02:26 AM
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Working a minimum wage job and getting more women pregnant?

Are you denying a woman's right to get pregnant and bear children by whomsoever she chooses Dana?

Is this some argument in favour of enforced sterilisation or celibacy on women because women make bad choices or something?

All this poor guy did was allow women who chose him to father their children to have free reproductive choice.
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#69 Old 05-22-2012, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

Are you denying a woman's right to get pregnant and bear children by whomsoever she chooses Dana?

Is this some argument in favour of enforced sterilisation or celibacy on women because women make bad choices or something?

All this poor guy did was allow women who chose him to father their children to have free reproductive choice.

Where did I say I was denying women rights? You pull this stuff out of nowhere. Poor guy?
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#70 Old 05-22-2012, 02:38 AM
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Where did I say I was denying women rights?

So you do support the right of these women to choose this guy as the father of their children?
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#71 Old 05-22-2012, 03:03 AM
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I don't care how many kids people have, as long as I don't have to pay for them. Not my choice and I shouldn't have to chip in. Though I must say 30 is a bit insane even if you are filthy rich.

not if you'r trying to start your own football team.
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#72 Old 05-22-2012, 03:04 AM
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Mebbe they should focus on the fact that he never gave birth once in his whole life then?

aint that the truth, if it weren't he wouldn't need financial help.
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#73 Old 05-22-2012, 03:05 AM
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Oh look at the shameless attempt to turn this thread into the new abortion debate thread. (It's not there yet but it will be soon judging by all the leading questions... )

Anyway, the guy is an idiot and needs to keep it in his pants.
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#74 Old 05-22-2012, 04:34 AM
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Oh look at the shameless attempt to turn this thread into the new abortion debate thread. (It's not there yet but it will be soon judging by all the leading questions... )

Countered by a disingenious attempt to have cake and eat it.

Quote:
Anyway, the guy is an idiot and needs to keep it in his pants.

Why should he deny these women their right to have the children they want with the man they have chosen?
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#75 Old 05-22-2012, 05:15 AM
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Why should he deny these women their right to have the children they want with the man they have chosen?

Children need to eat and wear clothes and go to school and such, kind of hard on a little over a dollar a month.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
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#76 Old 05-22-2012, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

Are you denying a woman's right to get pregnant and bear children by whomsoever she chooses Dana?

Is this some argument in favour of enforced sterilisation or celibacy on women because women make bad choices or something?

All this poor guy did was allow women who chose him to father their children to have free reproductive choice.

As usual, you're wrong.

Nobody has the right to get pregnant and bear children by whomever she chooses. In fact, if she chooses someone who doesn't want her, and who doesn't consent to having unprotected sex with her, that's called rape.

Lots of choices are available to men who don't want to have children: they can get vasectomies, they can be abstinent or only have types of sex that don't lead to pregnancy, they can use a condom every time (and never sleep with anyone who refuses to use a condom, or whom they don't trust to use birth control). If he doesn't take advantage of any of these options, and his partner becomes pregnant, you're right that it's her decision to carry to term. There is no alternative to this because of the biological reality that women carry pregnancies (look it up!).

Also as usual, your argument only functions if we assume that men are, as a rule, total ****ing morons who can't or won't exercise their choice to have safer sex. Somehow this is in opposition to the misogynist feminist argument that men are capable of rational thought and behaving in their own self-interest.
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#77 Old 05-22-2012, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

Exactly.

And that's why it's not OK to say:

It's like saying you shouldn't ever have to be responsible for helping anyone out. Remember, the kids are the ones who get hurt in this equation.

An analogy: a landlord is careless and he doesn't maintain his property. 30 of the residents at his apartment building get hurt because of it. They fall down the stairs because the stair railings were loose and they broke their legs. Same day, the landlord gets hit by a car and dies. He has assets but unfortunately he was a bit of a nutter and he buried his gold in the desert and no one can find it. So... would it be OK to just say, "No! My tax dollars don't go to help those people get leg casts and physical therapy. I didn't create the problem so I shouldn't have to fix it!" Probably not. We live together in a society precisely to help each other, to act as a bit of insurance for one another if we're given a raw deal in life. We pay taxes in order to help people who can't help themselves, like needy kids. It's not OK to just turn our backs on the members of our society who need us most.

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#78 Old 05-22-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post


Two things:

1. It is exclusively the choice of the woman if she allows a pregnancy to go full term or not.

2. All other things aside it was exclusively the women who chose to go full term with those pregnancies.

Tie those two things together and, although it is fair to say that the pregnancies were equal man/woman fault, the resultant children were exclusively the choice of the women.

The women in question are thus exclusively to blame.

 

If the law agreed with you, this wouldn't be a thread, because he wouldn't have to pay child support.  As it is though, he is responsible and so he does have to pay for them.

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#79 Old 05-22-2012, 07:49 PM
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 Can't we just return to social shunning of people like these?

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#80 Old 05-23-2012, 12:47 AM
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So you do support the right of these women to choose this guy as the father of their children?

 

No, I don't support that decision because it's irresponsible. I can't stop them though.

 

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Originally Posted by Annia View Post

Oh look at the shameless attempt to turn this thread into the new abortion debate thread. (It's not there yet but it will be soon judging by all the leading questions... )

Anyway, the guy is an idiot and needs to keep it in his pants.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

 

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Originally Posted by beatricious View Post


As usual, you're wrong.

Nobody has the right to get pregnant and bear children by whomever she chooses. In fact, if she chooses someone who doesn't want her, and who doesn't consent to having unprotected sex with her, that's called rape.

Lots of choices are available to men who don't want to have children: they can get vasectomies, they can be abstinent or only have types of sex that don't lead to pregnancy, they can use a condom every time (and never sleep with anyone who refuses to use a condom, or whom they don't trust to use birth control). If he doesn't take advantage of any of these options, and his partner becomes pregnant, you're right that it's her decision to carry to term. There is no alternative to this because of the biological reality that women carry pregnancies (look it up!).

Also as usual, your argument only functions if we assume that men are, as a rule, total ****ing morons who can't or won't exercise their choice to have safer sex. Somehow this is in opposition to the misogynist feminist argument that men are capable of rational thought and behaving in their own self-interest.

 

That's right, girlfriend! (I originally had :wayne: here, the worshipping smilie, but he doesn't work right now)

 

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Yay, you're posting here too. This is like the abortion thread all over again :p I missed it.

 

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 Can't we just return to social shunning of people like these?

 

Well, I can't say I wouldn't understand those who wanted to shun them....

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#81 Old 05-23-2012, 02:33 AM
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Children need to eat and wear clothes and go to school and such, kind of hard on a little over a dollar a month.

The man in question has an obligation to act responsibly in the light of that fact but the women in question don't?

 

 

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As usual, you're wrong.

Nobody has the right to get pregnant and bear children by whomever she chooses.

They definitely do.

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#82 Old 05-23-2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

 

Quote:

They definitely do.

 

Nope. Only if the person they choose also chooses them back.

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#83 Old 05-23-2012, 11:11 AM
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The man in question has an obligation to act responsibly in the light of that fact but the women in question don't?

 

They do. It sounds like they're the ones with full custody of the kids.

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#84 Old 05-23-2012, 12:30 PM
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I miss the luxury of having massive amounts of time to waste :(

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#85 Old 05-23-2012, 02:33 PM
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Somebody has to raise the kids too, money is not the only thing that matters, seeing as the women can each individually stay with their own kids, and that would be impossible for him, he needs to be the one to come up with the financial part.

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#86 Old 05-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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Well we all agree that the children themselves are the most important issue here but I'm a bit disappointed in some of the comments I've read, both here and elsewhere, with regard to the man. Some folks seem quite eager to castrate the guy but that doesn't address the fact that there would still be eleven open wombs out there seemingly quite eager to produce babies.

 

I'm more than willing to assign blame equally among all parties concerned since both the woman and man are equally responsible for birth control.  I also don't recall reading that any of them were raped.   We are talking about eleven women here who even after taking the man to court three years ago as a group... same courtroom, same day... and after seeing their baby-daddy on the news for his inability to pay child support to them and ten other women... continued to have unprotected sex with him and produced nine more children since.  I'm sorry, but that just doesn't scream accidental or unintentional to me and if anything I would lean toward placing more blame on the women than I do the man.  

 

Regardless, what is more important I think is finding a solution to the problem and I'm not sure education is the key as I'm quite certain these people all know what a condom is.

 

In my opinion we need to take away the incentive for these women to pop out babies or at the very least, the safety net that every one of them knows exists... while still providing care for the children who are produced from irresponsible sex.  It's a tough one and I don't really have an answer myself.

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#87 Old 05-23-2012, 03:31 PM
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I still don't think it's more the women's fault than the man's, he's the one with 30 kids. They're all EQUALLY responsible.

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#88 Old 05-23-2012, 03:33 PM
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I still don't think it's more the women's fault than the man's, he's the one with 30 kids. They're all EQUALLY responsible.

 

Like I said I'm willing to agree with that, but what I'm reading here (which shouldn't surprise me on this forum really) is that it is all the man's fault.

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#89 Old 05-23-2012, 03:35 PM
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Like I said I'm willing to agree with that, but what I'm reading here (which shouldn't surprise me on this forum really) is that it is all the man's fault.

 

But from what I can tell, the women are taking care of their responsibilities (raising the children) while he isn't. That's the problem.

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#90 Old 05-23-2012, 03:39 PM
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I'm not talking about the responsibility of raising the children, I'm talking about the responsibility of producing them to begin with.

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