More (football) players file concussion lawsuits against the NFL - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-03-2012, 12:39 PM
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Seriously... WTF?

These players were completely unaware that an aggressive contact sport could result in brain injury?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/03/sport/...uit/?hpt=us_c2

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The latest lawsuit, filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Atlanta by attorney Mike McGlamry, states that the NFL "repeatedly refuted the connection between concussions and brain injury."

It goes on to assert that the organization failed "to take reasonable steps necessary to protect players from devastating head injuries. Moreover, the NFL has downplayed and misrepresented the issues and misled players concerning the risks associated with concussions."

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#2 Old 05-03-2012, 01:29 PM
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The New Yorker did a lengthy piece on football players and brain injuries back in 2009. You can read it here.
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#3 Old 05-03-2012, 01:34 PM
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They probably spent all their money on nose candy and want a second helping.

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#4 Old 05-03-2012, 01:37 PM
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Breaking news: People die when they are killed.

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#5 Old 05-03-2012, 02:40 PM
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The NFL has an ethical responsibility to protect the players. Currently, they're failing to live up to that responsibility. The recent suspensions of some players and a Coach helped but didn't go far enough.
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#6 Old 05-03-2012, 02:48 PM
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I think it's pretty tragic, and I think American football should probably not be allowed in schools and clubs for minors because of the head injury risk.

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#7 Old 05-03-2012, 04:24 PM
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It's funny how the risk of maiming and death is what makes it exciting to its fans, but of course the NFL recognizes no relationship between the cause and the effect. Way too much money at stake, and most fans will abandon football if the NFL takes steps to eliminate the risk.

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#8 Old 05-03-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

I think it's pretty tragic, and I think American football should probably not be allowed in schools and clubs for minors because of the head injury risk.

Agreed.
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#9 Old 05-03-2012, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Digger View Post

Seriously... WTF?

These players were completely unaware that an aggressive contact sport could result in brain injury?

No, they knew they were facing some risk, but the league downplayed how serious the risk is. If I'm a smoker, and the tobacco companies tell me that cigarettes are risky, but the most it's going to do to me is give me wrinkles and a cough, am I not allowed to be angry when I get lung cancer? If my team doctor says I'm cleared to play after I've had a concussion, and I'm not fully recovered, is that my fault? These people are medical people, I'm assuming they have my interests in heart, when obviously they don't, because they are pressured from all kinds of people to get me, the star, back on the field, so they'll cut corners, except the corners are my health and safety. I signed up for a contact sport, not to be lied to about something the rest of us take for granted -- that my doctor is telling me the truth about my health.

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The recent suspensions of some players and a Coach helped but didn't go far enough.

The NFL is a socialist organization. To punish one team (my own, in the effort of full disclosure) means you also have to dish out to others. Without dismantling this whole season, what more did you expect them to do? Sean Payton, Will Smith, Jonathan Vilma, Scott Fujita were suspended for up to a season. The Saints have been fined, and lost draft picks. What do you want them to do? Shut down the league for a season? You can't just take a team out of the league without serious problems for the rest of the league. Would you dismantle one of the most popular and money making franchises? What would you rather have happen? What about all the other teams, sports, athletes who admit to participating in the same sort of program? Charles Barkley says he was involved in a bounty program as a NBA player. Do you only care about football players? What kind of punishment would you dish out to them?

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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

I think it's pretty tragic, and I think American football should probably not be allowed in schools and clubs for minors because of the head injury risk.

Probably never going to happen, but schools do limit the number of full contact practices students are allowed to have because of the risk.

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Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

It's funny how the risk of maiming and death is what makes it exciting to its fans, but of course the NFL recognizes no relationship between the cause and the effect. Way too much money at stake, and most fans will abandon football if the NFL takes steps to eliminate the risk.

People said this when the NFL brought up eliminating kick off returns (they compromised, made it the 30 yard line), and fans moaned and then didn't care once the sport came back. We're called "fanatics" for a reason. A change in rule (kick off returns, fines for big hits) doesn't matter to us when it comes to the big game. I think it's rude to assume that fans only watch the game because of bloodthirst or some desire to see death or something. That's not why I watch the game. Sure, a great sack is always nice to see, especially because it's so rare, but that's not what does it for me, that's not why I care to waste a whole sunday afternoon. I want the big plays. I want the athleticism, I want to see epic performances. I want to see an epic catch and then a long lanky guy run the entire length of the field in seconds to score the game winning points. It's only about 3 minutes out of that whole weekend (if you count Saturday for College, Sunday for Pro and sometimes a Monday night game), but it sticks with me. I want big defensive stops! Goal line stands (re: Nick Fairley and the other SEC monsters vs Oregon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3-nw_ua8jI

I like defensive players making big offensive plays! Taking balls, nice screens, all of that! (re: Tyrann Mathieu, The Honey Badger, LSU Heisman Nominee)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4zbJPowJX8

excuse the ****ty music, but you know, when the saints won the superbowl, there were some AMAZING close calls, jumps, pick sixes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLM3o3faXWk

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#10 Old 05-03-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

I think it's rude to assume that fans only watch the game because of bloodthirst or some desire to see death or something.

I'm not assuming. That was the opinion of an overwhelming majority of callers to a radio show that was debating the issue. Many of them were unapologetic about enjoying a violent sport, and most had no qualms about sacrificing a few people each year to disability or death for the sake of entertainment.

If I'd been about to make an assumption about football fans, I would have assumed most would find this unacceptable. I was surprised.

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#11 Old 05-03-2012, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Many of them were unapologetic about enjoying a violent sport, and most had no qualms about sacrificing a few people each year to disability or death for the sake of entertainment.

Your wording here is clearly different from "the risk of maiming and death is what makes it exciting".
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#12 Old 05-04-2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

I'm not assuming. That was the opinion of an overwhelming majority of callers to a radio show that was debating the issue. Many of them were unapologetic about enjoying a violent sport, and most had no qualms about sacrificing a few people each year to disability or death for the sake of entertainment.

If I'd been about to make an assumption about football fans, I would have assumed most would find this unacceptable. I was surprised.

so a call in radio show, a talk show style that extremists of every stripe thrive in, is the basis of your assumptions about football fans?
you don't know anyone, anywhere, at any time ever, who is a football fan who isn't a psychopath? the only football fans you know are ethical cavemen who enjoy orgies of death and destruction and bloodshed? i don't know anyone who revels in the damage to another person. even the most assholish person i can still call my friend doesn't like to see someone hurt and carted away. i don't know anyone who was okay with watching Eric LeGrand on the field, perhaps dying in front of your eyes.

That's crazy! For entertainment? I believe in sport. I like watching sport. Running, jumping, quick thinking, fast plays, strategy. Seamless pass performance, forward thinking ideas and new puzzles. That's what I like football for. I don't watch for purposefully damaging, out there, life risking hits!

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Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

Your wording here is clearly different from "the risk of maiming and death is what makes it exciting".

that too. i believe football can be minimally* risky** and still enjoyable for everyone.






*not clearing people who don't deserve to be on the field or playing or practicing, limiting if not erasing full contact practices, fining players for dangerous hits, not allowing punt returns (one of my favourites, but damn is it damaging and dangerous for players). worth totally eliminating for player safety.


** player helmets have increased tenfold plus some since the inception of the game, and i believe we can do better. not perfect, but better, in designing gear that is protective.

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#13 Old 05-04-2012, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post


The NFL is a socialist organization. To punish one team (my own, in the effort of full disclosure) means you also have to dish out to others. Without dismantling this whole season, what more did you expect them to do? Sean Payton, Will Smith, Jonathan Vilma, Scott Fujita were suspended for up to a season. The Saints have been fined, and lost draft picks. What do you want them to do? Shut down the league for a season? You can't just take a team out of the league without serious problems for the rest of the league. Would you dismantle one of the most popular and money making franchises? What would you rather have happen? What about all the other teams, sports, athletes who admit to participating in the same sort of program? Charles Barkley says he was involved in a bounty program as a NBA player. Do you only care about football players? What kind of punishment would you dish out to them?

Vilma, Fujita, and Gregg Williams should have been perma banned. Vilma and Fujita for offering their own money as bounties and Williams for being the instigator/ringleader. The NFL in the last several years has seen several players harm the league by their actions both on and off the field. They need to say, once and for all, that the standards for being allowed to participate necessitate severe penalties for those who don't meet those standards.
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#14 Old 05-04-2012, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

It's funny how the risk of maiming and death is what makes it exciting to its fans, but of course the NFL recognizes no relationship between the cause and the effect. Way too much money at stake, and most fans will abandon football if the NFL takes steps to eliminate the risk.

Which changes are you assuming would be made for fans to abandon football? If there's any sport that has a loyal following in the United States, it's football.
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#15 Old 05-04-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post

Seriously... WTF?

These players were completely unaware that an aggressive contact sport could result in brain injury?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/03/sport/...uit/?hpt=us_c2


I feel similarly. It seems obvious to me that if a 280 pound dude of mostly muscle is going
to be tackling you to the ground, you're going to be at a high-risk injury level.

You know what I find most disgusting, the fact that this is driven purely by greed as if these
men do not make a high enough salary as is they then have to try to manipulate the profession
in attempts to gain more money. Especially when that money is desired for things like a new
car or a cruise, etc...
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#16 Old 05-04-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

I'm not assuming. That was the opinion of an overwhelming majority of callers to a radio show that was debating the issue. Many of them were unapologetic about enjoying a violent sport, and most had no qualms about sacrificing a few people each year to disability or death for the sake of entertainment.

It's a violent sport, but not a very dangerous sport.

If you want to know about danger in sports, look up cheerleading injuries and deaths.

You'll find stuff like this:

Quote:
There is a wide variety of injuries experienced by cheerleaders, varying also in severity. In an attempt to identify those most likely to experience injury and what type of injury is most common, Jacobson, Redus, & Palmer conducted a study of 30 Division IA schools in 2005. The median age of active cheerleaders responding was just over 20 years, and 78% of all respondents had been injured at some point in their cheerleading career. Most had been injured multiple times, with a median of 3.5 total career injuries and 16.7% reporting 5 or more career injuries. Roughly 87% of the injuries required treatment by a doctor and 40% required surgery. There is definitely a large amount of serious injuries resulting from this once relatively harmless activity.

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#17 Old 05-04-2012, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib View Post

Vilma, Fujita, and Gregg Williams should have been perma banned. Vilma and Fujita for offering their own money as bounties and Williams for being the instigator/ringleader. The NFL in the last several years has seen several players harm the league by their actions both on and off the field. They need to say, once and for all, that the standards for being allowed to participate necessitate severe penalties for those who don't meet those standards.

so, get paid for a big hit - lose your job forever
rape a girl - nothing?

the NFL has problems that i think are more troubling than 'bountygate' and i'd rather see Dear Commi$h deal with those first, and then deal with this.

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You know what I find most disgusting, the fact that this is driven purely by greed as if these
men do not make a high enough salary as is they then have to try to manipulate the profession
in attempts to gain more money. Especially when that money is desired for things like a new
car or a cruise, etc...

because it's got nothing to do with being lied to by people who are responsible for your health and safety doing your job?

the attitude towards football players here in this thread is that they are big dumb hunks of money grubbing meat who aren't capable of feeling the same things the rest of us feel, who are soo stupid to believe the medical people taking care of them are trustworthy, who just want a bunch of new cars, nevermind that these injuries they are sustaining cost money that sometimes their insurance won't pay for, that their union has to fight for.

way to live up to the stereotype of veg*ns being snobby elitist jerks who can't be bothered with such a low class, plebian sport.

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#18 Old 05-04-2012, 07:20 AM
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Your wording here is clearly different from "the risk of maiming and death is what makes it exciting".

Again, that wasn't my wording. I was just relating other people opinions. You want a transcript of the entire interview?

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so a call in radio show, a talk show style that extremists of every stripe thrive in, is the basis of your assumptions about football fans?

Who's assuming now? You don't know any callers to radio shows who aren't extremists?

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Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

That's crazy! For entertainment? I believe in sport. I like watching sport.

Or to put it another way, you are entertained by sport.

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Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

Which changes are you assuming would be made for fans to abandon football? If there's any sport that has a loyal following in the United States, it's football.

Most of the callers were worried that the NFL would be forced by new research showing a relationship between concussion and brain injury to put more safety precautions into place, like a rule about no hits above the chest. Most seemed to have the view that making football less risky would make it less fun to watch.

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#19 Old 05-04-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

so, get paid for a big hit - lose your job forever
rape a girl - nothing?

the NFL has problems that i think are more troubling than 'bountygate' and i'd rather see Dear Commi$h deal with those first, and then deal with this.

Rape? Are we talking about rape? I'm not familiar with a case of an NFL player and rape. Guess I haven't been paying that close of attention. The only high profile criminal case I know of involved Michael Vick and he definitely should have been perma banned.

And Vilma and Fujita weren't suspended for getting paid but for offering to pay others and that should be a bannable offense.
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#20 Old 05-04-2012, 08:42 AM
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Rape? Are we talking about rape? I'm not familiar with a case of an NFL player and rape. Guess I haven't been paying that close of attention. The only high profile criminal case I know of involved Michael Vick and he definitely should have been perma banned.
And Vilma and Fujita weren't suspended for getting paid but for offering to pay others and that should be a bannable offense.

i'm surprised. doesn't everyone know who the pittsburgh steelers are? and that their starting star quarterback Big Ben has been accused of raping/assaulting at least 4 women? or that the Packs defensive line was held for questioning in a gang rape last year? typing in 'nfl player rape' pulls up tons of results, and all of the results are different (not the same story repeating). or try domestic violence. that the NFL gives these players a slap on the wrist and allows these men to continue to play should stir more outrage. that's what bothers me as a fan. and don't even get me started on the NCAA, what a farce!

that's not what this thread is about though, it's about how awful it is that these NFL players are suing the league for more money to fund their car and cruise habits, not because they care about their health.

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Who's assuming now? You don't know any callers to radio shows who aren't extremists?

No, because I don't know anyone who listens to talk radio, much less calls into them. In my experience, people who listen to talk radio and/or calls into them tend to have extremist views that don't jive with my lifestyle. These people who call into sports talk radio are ridiculed and used as a meme by the rest of us. PAWWWWWWL. PAWWWWWWLL. ROOOLL TIDE! Those are the sports fans who poison trees.

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Or to put it another way, you are entertained by sport.

didn't i say that?

Quote:
Most of the callers were worried that the NFL would be forced by new research showing a relationship between concussion and brain injury to put more safety precautions into place, like a rule about no hits above the chest. Most seemed to have the view that making football less risky would make it less fun to watch.

these people are idiots. this rule is already in place. what are they watching? because it's not football. or they know nothing about football.

you are not allowed helmet to helmet hits, horsecollars, face masks, leading with your helmet, or any other hit involving your head/helmet/neck and the other players head/helmet/neck.

AND because some players would risk more injury by continuing the play even if they lost their helmet, the league added another rule saying that as soon as a player loses protective gear (helmet, basically) the play is whistled dead, where as before it wasn't whistled dead until the player's knee hit the ground, so that there is no incentive to continue to play.

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#21 Old 05-04-2012, 09:46 AM
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Part of the problem is that the players keep getting bigger. My dad played Defensive End and on the O line in college in the early 1950's. He weighed about 150 lbs. Granted, Yale isn't a football powerhouse of a school, but today the lineman are likely 100 pounds heavier than that.

From http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...660879,00.html

It doesn't help that today's players are also bigger, faster and stronger, which means that each impact packs more punch. Since 1985, the average weight of NFL players has ballooned 10%, to 248 pounds, according to a recent study by Scripps Howard News Service. The heaviest position, offensive tackle, has gone from 281 pounds two decades ago to 318 pounds today. So, the dozens of high-speed hits that happen every game carry a higher likelihood of potentially hazardous results.
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#22 Old 05-04-2012, 10:09 AM
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We're also learning more about brain injuries, and how they can lead to aggression or depression.
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#23 Old 05-04-2012, 12:08 PM
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We're also learning more about brain injuries, and how they can lead to aggression or depression.

I'm personally glad about that research because my husband had a severe traumatic brain injury decades ago (from a fall). He was left with deficits,mostly physical, but luckily his personality and stuff have remained the same.

I would be curious if anabolic steroids or other supplement may have damaged these athletes' brains as well as the repeated head bashing.
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#24 Old 05-04-2012, 02:15 PM
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I don't know anything about steroids causing brain damage. But I know blows to the forehead can cause psychological changes such as lack of impulse control and long term planning deficits. Others tend to describe it as a major personality change. Anyone who's taken Psych 101 or read Descartes' Error has probably heard of Phineas Gage, who went through these changes as a result of a pipe going through his frontal lobe. The same things can happen as a result of too much blunt force to the front of the head too.
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