Trayvon Martin Murder - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 03-26-2012, 12:31 AM
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I don't believe that Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon, but he is dead because of Zimmerman's carelessness and stupidity and I will be really surprised if he doesn't get quite a bit of jail time.
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#32 Old 03-26-2012, 02:17 AM
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I don't really think that's the way that most people are talking about it - that black folks are being brutalized by white people. In fact, George Zimmerman's mother is a Latina. I think what they're talking about is that this boy was killed and the killer wasn't arrested and a thorough investigation done before he was released, that his life wasn't worth that. That seems like a miscarriage of justice, however you look at it, no?

This shooting took place about an hour from where I live. Believe me, there has been talk about the racial aspects. http://m.thegrio.com/specials/trayvo...estigation.php

"Last night, 10,000 people gathered in Sanford to demand that Zimmerman be arrested, including Rev. Al Sharpton, Martin's family, and prominent dignitaries such as Martin Luther King, III. Speakers and protesters expressed the belief that Sanford police intentionally corrupted the investigation of Martin's shooting due to racial bias. "

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-is-a-martyr/1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_1377258.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-...-Florida-video
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#33 Old 03-26-2012, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

I've heard he said "f-ing punk".

YMMV. 911 call is online, I'm told.

You were told wrong. He almost certainly said "f-ing coons"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNI5CA5jijw

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#34 Old 03-26-2012, 05:47 AM
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You were told wrong. He almost certainly said "f-ing coons"

That sounds a lot like "coons" in your tape.

Which is odd, since this link to the audio sounds a lot like "punks". There's the hard "k" sound at the end. Similar with this link to the audio.

Considering these are supposed to be the same 9/11 call, why do they sound different?
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#35 Old 03-26-2012, 05:58 AM
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No I don't hear the hard "k" at the end. I've heard all three (as well as tapes from other websites as well) and in all three I can hear the hard "c/k" sound at the beginning. Whether it is a racial slur or not, its not punks.

Also, whoever/whatever does the captions for youtube, needs to be fired.

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#36 Old 03-26-2012, 06:22 AM
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Is there some sort of mental McGurk effect going on?
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#37 Old 03-26-2012, 06:33 AM
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It sounds like he's saying the back entrance.
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#38 Old 03-26-2012, 06:46 AM
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I don't hear coon. It sounds like cold, to me. What was the temperature that night?
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#39 Old 03-26-2012, 06:50 AM
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The first one sounds like "coons" to me. The second one I think could go either way between coons, punks, or maybe ****s (this is probably censored). To be honest though, I don't see why it's such a big deal anyway. The guy sounds pretty obviously pissed off, the kid (and perhaps the "they" who have been getting away with something) is black, and he uses an insult for black people. A dated one, perhaps (or do people still use it there?) but still, it doesn't require racism to use it even if racists are that way inclined. Unless he turns out to have a blog full of racial hatred or something, I don't see this as conclusive.

Hell, if that was true I'd be pretty much against every group I can insult without implicitly being part of (they even have insults for different categories of white people, so you can still insult them too!).

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#40 Old 03-26-2012, 07:05 AM
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Whatever is said there, the rest seems to be rather clear: 1) he was pursuing Trayvon, and Trayvon had begun to run or move quickly--most likely because Zimmerman looked threatening (note that Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that Trayvon told her on his cell that some guy was following him so he was going to walk fast. 2) Zimmerman followed him despite being advised by the 911 operator not to do so; 3) Zimmerman knew the cops had been notified and were on their way, because he was told that directly, and, 4) Zimmerman also muttered that the "a-holes" always get away.

This man was aggressively pursuing Trayvon when there was no need for such an activity, and he was doing so while armed. From what I've read, he had aspired to be a police officer. Seems he was trying to play cop that day and Trayvon's death was the result.

What bugs me is that this guy most likely won't be convicted of anything, unless he makes incriminating statements, because, so far, no eyewitnesses have stepped forward.
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#41 Old 03-26-2012, 07:23 AM
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Eyewitness testimony is unreliable.
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#42 Old 03-26-2012, 07:33 AM
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Eyewitness testimony is unreliable.

Yes, it can be very unreliable. However, without anyone to contradict Zimmerman's self defense claims, it will be very difficult to convict him of a crime.
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#43 Old 03-26-2012, 07:46 AM
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The first one sounds like "coons" to me. The second one I think could go either way between coons, punks, or maybe ****s (this is probably censored). To be honest though, I don't see why it's such a big deal anyway. The guy sounds pretty obviously pissed off, the kid (and perhaps the "they" who have been getting away with something) is black, and he uses an insult for black people. A dated one, perhaps (or do people still use it there?) but still, it doesn't require racism to use it even if racists are that way inclined. Unless he turns out to have a blog full of racial hatred or something, I don't see this as conclusive.
).

Saying a racial slur during or after u assault someone does qualify as a hate crime. So the fact that he did use a racial slur makes this a racially motivated assault. He doesnt need to have a blog full of racist content, simply calling someone a c**n is racist on its own.
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#44 Old 03-26-2012, 07:52 AM
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At least so far, it is not absolutely certain that is what he said. I think he said it, but, we are talking about a whispered comment on a phone call. The audio might be enhanced by investigators at some point. However, proving that there was in fact a crime committed will be quite difficult even if he did say "f-ing coon", because its not a crime to utter those words to yourself. They will need to prove that Zimmerman's version of the events is not true.
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#45 Old 03-26-2012, 08:02 AM
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Whatever is said there, the rest seems to be rather clear: 1) he was pursuing Trayvon, and Trayvon had begun to run or move quickly--most likely because Zimmerman looked threatening (note that Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that Trayvon told her on his cell that some guy was following him so he was going to walk fast. 2) Zimmerman followed him despite being advised by the 911 operator not to do so; 3) Zimmerman knew the cops had been notified and were on their way, because he was told that directly, and, 4) Zimmerman also muttered that the "a-holes" always get away.

Yes. Seems to me that Zimmerman targetted an innocent person walking, and the actions Zimmerman took lead to that person's death.

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Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

Saying a racial slur during or after u assault someone does qualify as a hate crime. So the fact that he did use a racial slur makes this a racially motivated assault. He doesnt need to have a blog full of racist content, simply calling someone a c**n is racist on its own.

Hypothetically speaking, if it was possible to know that Zimmerman wasn't racist, and that he only targeted Martin due to Martin's young age and for wearing a hoodie, would that make Zimmerman less dangerous?
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#46 Old 03-26-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

Saying a racial slur during or after u assault someone does qualify as a hate crime. So the fact that he did use a racial slur makes this a racially motivated assault. He doesnt need to have a blog full of racist content, simply calling someone a c**n is racist on its own.

I'm not referring to what the law assumes his views are.

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#47 Old 03-26-2012, 08:12 AM
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From what I've read, he had aspired to be a police officer. Seems he was trying to play cop that day and Trayvon's death was the result.

Wouldn't surprise me. The sort of people who seek out power are about the last ones I'd want to have any.

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#48 Old 03-26-2012, 08:52 AM
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"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.
" - Orlando Sentinel.
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#49 Old 03-26-2012, 08:56 AM
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Eyewitness testimony is unreliable.
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#50 Old 03-26-2012, 09:13 AM
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Eyewitness testimony is unreliable.

Yep.
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#51 Old 03-26-2012, 09:30 AM
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The Orlando Sentinel article includes a lot of info. It might have happened like that, and there might be a credible witness that corroborates Zimmerman's story completely. Or, the witness might have only seen some aspects of what happened. In any event, we will know more as investigations continue.

However, even if Trayvon threw the first punch. if Zimmerman had not tried to play cop and didn't go after Trayvon toting his gun, and had let the police that were on the way investigate, most likely this 17 year-old would still be alive. Whatever his defense might be, it will never erase the fact his stupidity brought about a death.
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#52 Old 03-26-2012, 09:54 AM
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Whatever his defense might be, it will never erase the fact his stupidity brought about a death.

You misspelled "bigotry".
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#53 Old 03-26-2012, 10:06 AM
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This is a terrible tragedy and I am on the side of the family. If Zimmerman did not have a gun, then this would not have happened period. I also believe this guy was too busy trying to play cop. One thing about this case that does bother me is how the media is putting their slant on it. They are playing the 911 recordings and saying they hear a racial slur. I have no idea if he made one, but you sure as heck can't hear it on the tape. I also find it interesting that every time they show pictures of the young man, it is always when he was a little kid. He was 6'3" and it is possible he was intimidating to Zimmerman. This is just another example of how having a gun can cause terrible things when if they did not have one, it may have been a small scuffle. I definitely am not on Zimmerman's side at all, but it does bother me how the media has turned this into a hate crime, when we really don't know. Zimmerman made all of the wrong choices and because of that a kid is dead. It is a terrible tragedy no matter how you interpret the facts. Even if the young man was being aggressive, Zimmerman should have stayed away and let the cops deal with it.
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#54 Old 03-26-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

Saying a racial slur during or after u assault someone does qualify as a hate crime. So the fact that he did use a racial slur makes this a racially motivated assault. He doesnt need to have a blog full of racist content, simply calling someone a c**n is racist on its own.

And that couldn't that open Zimmerman up to federal charges for a hate crime? That could bypass Florida's self-defense statutes.
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#55 Old 03-26-2012, 10:10 AM
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What bugs me is that this guy most likely won't be convicted of anything, unless he makes incriminating statements, because, so far, no eyewitnesses have stepped forward.

This would mean that all one would have to do is find time to be alone with the person they intend to kill and get them to come at them, then say they were attacked. How many women - victims of domestic violence, have gone to jail after finally blowing away their abusers in self defense? Witnesses are not necessary for a conviction.
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#56 Old 03-26-2012, 12:01 PM
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I was listening to NPR, and several experts voiced the opinion that the "stand your ground" law may not shield Zimmerman.

There was another case (also in Florida, I think) where someone who was the aggressor is being charged with manslaughter.
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#57 Old 03-26-2012, 12:02 PM
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Hypothetically speaking, if it was possible to know that Zimmerman wasn't racist, and that he only targeted Martin due to Martin's young age and for wearing a hoodie, would that make Zimmerman less dangerous?

My husband wore his hoodie as he went into work to start his night shift and he had someone call the police on him because he looked "suspicious".

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I also find it interesting that every time they show pictures of the young man, it is always when he was a little kid. He was 6'3" and it is possible he was intimidating to Zimmerman.

Wiki states that the boy only weighed 140lbs so even at that height he would be thin I would think. (ETA - According to Wiki Zimmerman is 5 foot 9 and weighs 250lbs.)
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#58 Old 03-26-2012, 12:30 PM
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The troubling part is that even if the kid was aggressive or in the wrong, the shooting just should not have happened. It is possible Zimmerman is not a bad person and that he was not looking for trouble, but unfortunately he had a gun and used it.
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#59 Old 03-26-2012, 12:40 PM
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When the police fill someone with lead with multiple weapons and the guy ends up being unarmed and holding a soda or a cell phone, it generally is a black male who has been blown to bits. I don't know when the last time it was that i heard of an artillery barrage against an unarmed white guy by some policemen.

It is always sad when such events occur, and those responsible for such events deserve the harshest penalties the law allows; however, the fact remains that the vast majority of black victims of violent crime self-identified their assailant as black, 78.3%, in fact. Considering that non-Hispanic whites make up 63.7% of the population, and only 12.2% of the assailants, this would mean whites are vastly under-represented. link
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#60 Old 03-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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I was listening to NPR, and several experts voiced the opinion that the "stand your ground" law may not shield Zimmerman.

There was another case (also in Florida, I think) where someone who was the aggressor is being charged with manslaughter.

I have also heard some experts discuss this controversial law, one lady said that since it has been proven from the 911 call and the girlfriends phone conversation with Trayvon right before he was shot, that Zimmerman was actively pursuing him. pursuing someone disqualifies "stand your ground", if anything Trayvon could have used "stand your ground" to justify if he did assault Zimmerman since the evidence so far points to Zimmerman being the main agressor.

a teen sees someone following/chasing him carrying a gun, he has every right to run or try to defend himself according to stand your ground. so even if Trayvon punched or pushed or touched Zimmerman aggressively in anyway Trayvon is supposed to be protected by stand your ground, not Zimmerman.
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