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mollycakes 09-22-2011 08:07 AM

This is awful, and for days I haven't stopped tearing up from this story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_974650.html

I went to high school here, and am shocked and saddened that the bullying still goes on. I thought we were moving forward with acceptance- I feel so sad it is still so hopeless for some.

Skylark 09-22-2011 08:27 AM

One thing I can definitely say for my experience being homeschooled in conservative Christian circles was the adult-child ratio in groups was much higher than what I observe in most public schools, and the adults were emphatic that no one be bullied. The only taunting or name-calling I ever witnessed was VERY mild compared to what I hear is so commonplace in larger school settings. A girl named Svetlana was one of several teens bullied to death in Mentor, Ohio, with kids among other things calling her "Slut-lana." That sort of thing would have been immediately handled when I was a kid, and it would have been extremely unlikely to start. Very often, bullies are mimicking the maliciousness they see in their parents. In my childhood, most of the kids were only vaguely aware that LGBTQ people exist. If a child were being teased for "the sin of homosexuality," the parents would likely have removed that child from the rest of the group, and they might have questioned the child, but the child-child bullying would have ended. The adults certainly would not have put up with physical or verbal violence. Spiritual violence is another matter, and they did engage in that.

Fatman 09-22-2011 08:28 AM

would you consider totally ignoring him, not calling him names, no pushing, shoving or beatings, just simply ignoring him and excluding him politely from non school activities bullying?

Fatman 09-22-2011 08:30 AM

Quote:
Spiritual violence is another matter, and they did engage in that

explain please.

Pixie 09-22-2011 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

would you consider totally ignoring him, not calling him names, no pushing, shoving or beatings, just simply ignoring him and excluding him politely from non school activities bullying?

Deliberately ignoring and excluding a child? Yes I would consider that bullying and abusive.

Skylark 09-22-2011 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

would you consider totally ignoring him, not calling him names, no pushing, shoving or beatings, just simply ignoring him and excluding him politely from non school activities bullying?

Is ignoring someone bullying? Are you bullying every person who you choose not to engage with in a large group? When I said a bullied child would likely have been removed from the group, I meant the immediate situation in which the bullying was happening. The bullies would have been punished, too, and they would be watched closely to make sure they treated all the kids decently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

explain please.

Well, there's debate over what constitutes spiritual violence, and if it is always a negative thing. An example of spiritual violence can be praying aloud in a group to loose the demons that make someone sick and perverted with homosexuality, or to release another from the selfish, soulless promiscuity of premarital sex and abortion. This would all be done in the attitude of trying to help another person and fulfill God's will. I appreciate the sincerity and desire to help. I also appreciate the desire to be in line with God. Some of the specific problems they addressed are not actually problems, or not as bad as they portray, IMO.

mollycakes 09-22-2011 08:55 AM

Yes, I if you can't resist the urge to call names, push, shove, or beat- then ignoring is the better alternative.

I feel like we are in another civil rights movement, which is ridiculous, in this day and age.

Fatman 09-22-2011 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post

Well, there's debate over what constitutes spiritual violence, and if it is always a negative thing. An example of spiritual violence can be praying aloud in a group to loose the demons that make someone sick and perverted with homosexuality, or to release another from the selfish, soulless promiscuity of premarital sex and abortion. This would all be done in the attitude of trying to help another person and fulfill God's will. I appreciate the sincerity and desire to help. I also appreciate the desire to be in line with God. Some of the specific problems they addressed are not actually problems, or not as bad as they portray, IMO.

I would put that down as a passive form of bullying.
Those prayers would be just as effective if the group gathered in the privacy of their own home and prayed for the "afflicted" without them around.
I dont recall the Bible telling me I had to do these types of prayers in the actual vincinity of the person being prayed for.

Fatman 09-22-2011 09:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixie View Post

Deliberately ignoring and excluding a child? Yes I would consider that bullying and abusive.

So, lets say that child "A" is an out gay kid.
Lets say that child "B" is having a party at his house on friday night. (parental supervision on premise) Child "B" invites all 20 kids in the class, except for child "A".
Is that bullying?
How about if they all get together on a saturday and head to the mall or to the ball field.
Im talking about excluding him/her outside of the normal realm of school activity.

Fromper 09-22-2011 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

So, lets say that child "A" is an out gay kid.
Lets say that child "B" is having a party at his house on friday night. (parental supervision on premise) Child "B" invites all 20 kids in the class, except for child "A".
Is that bullying?
How about if they all get together on a saturday and head to the mall or to the ball field.
Im talking about excluding him/her outside of the normal realm of school activity.

If the entire class is invited, except for one specific child, then yes, I'd consider it bullying. Relatively passive and not as bad as other forms of bullying, but it still qualifies. But if there's a class of 30 kids, and the kid holding the party invites 20 he likes, and leaves out 10, then that's probably OK. Although even then, it could be bullying in the form of "We're the popular crowd, and you're not good enough for us."

Everyone has their friends, and hanging out with only your own group is normal. But when you're dealing with a large group of people, the smaller the percentage that are excluded, the more it starts to feel like you're just being mean to those you exclude.

But you do have to evaluate each situation individually, as there can often be other factors. For instance, in the case where only one kid is excluded from a class of 20, it could be that the one who was excluded is the one who usually actively bullies the others. In that case, maybe excluding him is still a minor form of bullying. But if it's less severe than the bullying he usually does to others, then it can be seen as justifiable payback, and maybe it'll teach him to be nicer to people. On the other hand, having a non-school sponsored prom, and inviting the entire senior class except for one lesbian (as actually happened not too long ago at a school in the deep South) is definite bullying.

--Fromper

Pixie 09-22-2011 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

So, lets say that child "A" is an out gay kid.
Lets say that child "B" is having a party at his house on friday night. (parental supervision on premise) Child "B" invites all 20 kids in the class, except for child "A".
Is that bullying?
How about if they all get together on a saturday and head to the mall or to the ball field.
Im talking about excluding him/her outside of the normal realm of school activity.

I would say that is bullying. I don't intend to have any kids but I would be so ashamed if I brought up a child and they became a homophobic bully. I would think I had made some very big mistakes as a parent. Are people really still so concerned about what consenting humans do in their personal lives, why don't we evolve?

Fatman 09-22-2011 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixie View Post

I would say that is bullying. I don't intend to have any kids but I would be so ashamed if I brought up a child and they became a homophobic bully. I would think I had made some very big mistakes as a parent. Are people really still so concerned about what consenting humans do in their personal lives, why don't we evolve?

so you think its ok to force the rest of the kids to accept?

Envy 09-22-2011 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

so you think its ok to force the rest of the kids to accept?

I think they want it so that situation never arises in the first place.

Well, and if it occurs, I see no need to force them to take him in, since I myself would rather not go to a party where I'm resented and considered an abomination.

Fromper 09-22-2011 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

so you think its ok to force the rest of the kids to accept?

Learning to accept people for who they are is a part of growing up.

--Fromper

Fatman 09-22-2011 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fromper View Post

Learning to accept people for who they are is a part of growing up.

--Fromper

is forcing equal to learning?

Fromper 09-22-2011 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

is forcing equal to learning?

You make it sound like there will be whips and beatings involved. If it's handled well, a responsible adult should be able to get the others to accept the unwanted kid and turn it into a learning experience. If that's your idea of "forcing", then I suppose that's the answer to your question.

--Fromper

Pixie 09-22-2011 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

so you think its ok to force the rest of the kids to accept?

What exactly are they being forced into doing? Opening their minds and being more tolerant people? Out of a class of 20 kids then statistically there should be more than one gay/lesbian/bi child there anyway.

Fatman 09-22-2011 01:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fromper View Post

You make it sound like there will be whips and beatings involved. If it's handled well, a responsible adult should be able to get the others to accept the unwanted kid and turn it into a learning experience. If that's your idea of "forcing", then I suppose that's the answer to your question.

--Fromper

What are they supposed to learn, and how do they do that? do they call little Timmy up in front of the class and discuss him?
Why is it so hard to accept that there are people that might not accept homosexual lifechoices?

Pixie 09-22-2011 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

Why is it so hard to accept that there are people that might not accept homosexual lifechoices?

Why is it so hard to accept that well adjusted people don't care what you think?


Fatman 09-22-2011 01:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixie View Post

Why is it so hard to accept that well adjusted people don't care what you think?


why is it so hard to accept that well adjusted people dont go after members of their own sex?
And I would be willing to bet that I am more "well Adjusted" than many on here.

Pixie 09-22-2011 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

And I would be willing to bet that I am more "well Adjusted" than many on here.

Hmm.

What exactly is it about homosexuality that frightens you so much?

mollycakes 09-22-2011 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

why is it so hard to accept that well adjusted people dont go after members of their own sex?
And I would be willing to bet that I am more "well Adjusted" than many on here.

Wow. OMG

I must not be well adjusted because of my previous female relationships.

reneeannem 09-22-2011 01:43 PM

Seriously? Homophobic bullying in a thread about a child who ended his own life because of homophobic bullying. That's about as low as it gets.

Envy 09-22-2011 01:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeannem View Post

Seriously? Homophobic bullying in a thread about a child who ended his own life because of homophobic bullying. That's about as low as it gets.

who is being bullied here?

Fromper 09-22-2011 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

What are they supposed to learn, and how do they do that? do they call little Timmy up in front of the class and discuss him?

They should be learning that just because they don't like one detail about a person, they shouldn't be completely dismissive of that person as a human being. It is possible to be civil, even friendly, with someone even if you don't like everything about them. And a good teacher, whether that's a teacher in the classroom, a responsible parent, or some other adult role model, should be able to explain that and convince the students to put aside their prejudices and get to know the kid they're excluding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

Why is it so hard to accept that there are people that might not accept homosexual lifechoices?

I'll ignore the implication that being gay is a choice and move on to my point.

Do you refuse to even talk to somebody if you find out they're gay? What if you met someone who you got along with great, and only later found out that they're gay? Would you refuse to associate with them after that, despite having a lot in common and enjoying their company before you found out about that aspect of their personality?

--Fromper

Fromper 09-22-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

who is being bullied here?

Any LGBT person reading this thread, who Fatman just claimed isn't "well adjusted", without even knowing who they are or anything about them.

--Fromper

karenlovessnow 09-22-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fromper View Post

They should be learning that just because they don't like one detail about a person, they shouldn't be completely dismissive of that person as a human being. It is possible to be civil, even friendly, with someone even if you don't like everything about them. And a good teacher, whether that's a teacher in the classroom, a responsible parent, or some other adult role model, should be able to explain that and convince the students to put aside their prejudices and get to know the kid they're excluding.
--Fromper



I've heard, too often, that the problem lies with the person being bullied...that they need to be tougher, less sensitive. While that might help the situation, to a small degree, I believe the problem would better be alleviated if more parents would teach their children, from a very young age, to be kind, loving compassionate, tolerant human beings.

kazyeeqen 09-22-2011 03:53 PM

That's some sick **** fatman, way to blame the victim. Kid shouldn't have chosen to be gay, right? Or fat, kids certainly shouldn't choose that, and if they do I guess they deserve whatever punishment bullies want to give, gluttony is a sin, after all. While we're at it, better not choose to be poor, or anything else that sets you apart from the masses. Or you're just asking for it. Let's just blame the ones being tormented, that sounds fair, they should've just chosen to be normal and fit in so that normal people would like them.

No.

Exclusion can certainly be bullying. When everybody gave out Valentine's cards in class, you had to give them to everyone, even people you didn't like. If your going to hang out with three of your friends that's fine, do that, but if you're going to want everyone at your party it has to be everyone.

Acceptance isn't about liking someone, it's about treating them like a person even if you don't like them. Parents and teachers cannot make kids like other kids, but they certainly can enforce rules about how kids treat people and attempt to teach them why it's vital that they treat people with decency.

Ira 09-22-2011 04:03 PM

i think people here may exagerate with what bullying is. not wanting to spend time with somebody, for whatever reason isn't bullying. i don't invite everyone i know to my parties and i doubt anyone here does

Fatman 09-22-2011 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeannem View Post

Seriously? Homophobic bullying in a thread about a child who ended his own life because of homophobic bullying. That's about as low as it gets.

Ill tell you what the problem is, the left tries to guilt people into accepting homosexuality.
All I have to say is, I think its a choice, and I don't think its a moral one. My opinon.
now it gets followed with the insults, the accusations, the suggestion that if I don't like homosexuals, I must be one..
but that is all ok right?

I guess my problem is that I don't like the loss of morals in this country, and I refuse to accept the liberal agenda.


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