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#241 Old 02-02-2015, 07:32 AM
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Thank you go vegan. Kyraizor of course drugs are bad for reasons too obvious to mention
I think its difficult when you group weed in the general class of "drugs." I have seen first hand the benefits of weed in some pretty awful situations. Now cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. is quite the opposite.

So you don't like sex or drugs...how about rock and roll?
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#242 Old 02-02-2015, 08:25 AM
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To start,

Legalizing it is the best way to eliminate dangerous cartels. Gettman, J., & Kennedy, M. (2014). Let it grow--the open market solution to marijuana control. Harm Reduction Journal, 11(1), 1-17. doi:10.1186/1477-7517-11-32

The illegality of marijuana (in the United States) is little more than a tool of a racist penal system that seeks to felonize and lock away African American men. LEVINE, H. (2013). THE SCANDAL OF RACIST MARIJUANA ARRESTS. Nation, 297(20), 18-22.

It can be helpful in the "treatment of glaucoma and head injury inflammatory disorders by Marijuana extracts and impact of Marijuana on function of the brain. It also mentions the significance of the drug in the regulation of mood." Konopka, L. M. (2014). Marijuana use: neuroscience perspective. Croatian Medical Journal, 55(3), 281-283. doi:10.3325/cmj.2014.55.281

"It mentions that the medical properties of marijuana was discovered by the legendary Chinese emperor Shennong in 2700 B.C. It adds that clinical trials have found out that medical marijuana decreases chemotherapy-related nausea and that it increases the appetite of cancer patients. Moreover, it mentions that New York is the 21st state to legalize the use of medical marijuana." Jacobson, R. (2014). THE CASE FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA. Scientific American Mind, 25(3), 15.

No one goes home and beats their wife on pot, not one gets high and starts punching walls and being violent.

It may be addictive to some, but so are cheetohs. Ziauddeen, H., & Fletcher, P. C. (2013). Is food addiction a valid and useful concept?. Obesity Reviews, 14(1), 19-28. doi:10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01046.x

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#243 Old 02-02-2015, 09:06 AM
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The war on drugs is a massive business for the government as they support both sides of the coin. Classifying marijuana as a schedule 1 drug is absurd. For all the people that buy into the fear, try this on for size:

Quote:
'This Is Working': Portugal, 12 Years after Decriminalizing Drugs

By Wiebke Hollersen

Twelve years ago, Portugal eliminated criminal penalties for drug users. Since then, those caught with small amounts of marijuana, cocaine or heroin go unindicted and possession is a misdemeanor on par with illegal parking. Experts are pleased with the results.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-891060.html

^^ That's the first link that popped up, and it's a little dated. But there are lots and lots of articles that support the idea.
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#244 Old 02-02-2015, 09:35 AM
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In the uk it's illegal for the harmful effects on the body, it's very addictive like other recreational drugs. Also better than alcohol doesn't mean good
Which harmful effects exactly? And it is far less physically addictive than alcohol and illegal drugs like cocaine and methamphetamine. I have seen cancer patients undergoing chemo stop hours of intractible vomiting after using cannabis x1. And then they can eat and sleep.
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#245 Old 02-02-2015, 09:45 AM
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"You can get addicted to marijuana, but it's highly unlikely

People who try marijuana are significantly less likely to become dependent on it than users of just about any other drug, including tobacco, heroin, cocaine, alcohol or stimulants: "The life-time risk of developing dependence among those who have ever used cannabis was estimated at 9% in the United States in the early 1990s as against 32% for nicotine, 23% for heroin, 17% for cocaine, 15% for alcohol and 11% for stimulants." More than nine-in-ten people who try marijuana don't get addicted to it."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ive-as-heroin/
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#246 Old 02-02-2015, 09:46 AM
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High fructose corn syrup is more addictive and harmful than marijuana. (!!!)

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#247 Old 02-02-2015, 10:23 AM
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This is what the US government National Institute on Drug Abuse says about marijuana. LINK
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#248 Old 02-02-2015, 10:26 AM
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In my time I've gone through withdrawal of chronic daily use of marijuana, coffee, and cigarettes.
Coffee withdrawals appeared on the second day of no coffee and lasted 5 days, it was mostly headache, constant drowsiness, and mild irritability.
Tobacco withdrawals took a month because the addiction was so strong I had to taper off, it was like a month long cold with constant drug craving.
Marijuana withdrawal produced no physical symptoms at all. It did produce a disturbance, in that it greatly altered my daily routine. Anything that does that will cause some psychological unease. It also resulted in infomercials selling vacuums no longer being hilarious and clever.
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No one goes home and beats their wife on pot
My grandfather was an abusive alcoholic, every day he'd go home drunk and beat his wife. One day my father grabbed him as he came in and made him smoke a joint. My grandfather proceeded to eat all the pie and watch TV laughing hysterically rather than beat his wife. My grandma said "I dont know WHAT you gave him, and I dont want to know, but get more!!"

Of course it has its bad side too. Like being abused for escapism like I did for a decade.
Its mainly the volition of the user that makes it good or bad. By itself its just a plant.
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#249 Old 02-02-2015, 10:27 AM
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Marijuana

I'm all for marijuana, but it IS a drug and needs to be treated with caution and common sense. It's effects do last into the next day or even few days (called a "stone over") and people definitely should not be driving or doing other dangerous or sensitive tasks whilst impaired. I know many very successful and motivated people who smoke a lot of marijuana. I see alcohol destroy far more lives than marijuana, and with far more damage and people hurt in the wreckage.

Marijuana is illegal in the United States as far as the country is concerned, but some states have legalized it medicinally or recreationally. If you buy legally, you are not supporting drug cartels. Really in people who don't have jobs that drug screen, people in the U.S. who want to smoke, do smoke. It is extremely easy to get a hold of marijuana. Therefore, keeping it illegal is only insuring that the cartels continue to profit in stead of Americans who grow and sell. Also, alcohol and tobacco companies shell out huge amounts of money to our law makers to lobby against marijuana.

And its medical benefits have been proven. Besides, as a painkiller alone, it is so much safer than what we give people for pain. I see scores of patients who were given Percocet or dilaudid or oxycodone by their doctors for pain and are now drug- seeking addicts.


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#250 Old 02-02-2015, 10:53 AM
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There is a difference between using it to treat a condition, where side effects might be acceptable, and using it recreationally, where exposure to side effects would be unnecessary...
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#251 Old 02-02-2015, 11:03 AM
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There is a difference between using it to treat a condition, where side effects might be acceptable, and using it recreationally, where exposure to side effects would be unnecessary...
Some would say the side effects are the whole point.

Anecdotally again, like my dad. He has always ran really high on the stress scale and when he was not taking it (because he was raising me) he was much less happy and quit to temper (not to me, he truly was the perfect father, and still is. But I know many an IHOP manager that would disagree). Pot levels him out.

As with any substance, the side effects, or rather the effects, are the point. When I am ordering my coffee in the morning, I am not thinking to myself, "Wait, I should get the decalf because I don't want the added strain on my heart coffee causes." No, I am thinking "IMA GET ME AN EXTRA SHOT BECAUSE HOLY JEEBUS IMA BE FILING OUT FORMS AND WRITING **** FOR EIGHT HOURS TODAY."

Everything we do or try has an effect. If someone likes the effect and are harming no one else, why not let them enjoy it?
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#252 Old 02-02-2015, 01:11 PM
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By side effects I am referring to:

There are associations between excessive cannabis use and conditions like schizophrenia

http://www.uniad.org.br/desenvolvime..._psychosis.pdf

Also, if smoked the hot gases can still harm your lungs and may over time contribute to COPD

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2665954/
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#253 Old 02-02-2015, 01:28 PM
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I don't use it, and it is not entirely due to legal restrictions as I also do not drink alcohol and prefer to avoid even pain narcotics legally prescribed to me after surgery.

In general, I am just not a fan of a substance (natural or not, legal or not) that alters my mental state. That's why I stopped drinking more than one cup of coffee (and I aim to d/c that eventually, too).
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#254 Old 02-02-2015, 01:33 PM
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High fructose corn syrup is more addictive and harmful than marijuana. (!!!)
Don't have sugar either

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#255 Old 02-02-2015, 01:36 PM
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"You can get addicted to marijuana, but it's highly unlikely

People who try marijuana are significantly less likely to become dependent on it than users of just about any other drug, including tobacco, heroin, cocaine, alcohol or stimulants: "The life-time risk of developing dependence among those who have ever used cannabis was estimated at 9% in the United States in the early 1990s as against 32% for nicotine, 23% for heroin, 17% for cocaine, 15% for alcohol and 11% for stimulants." More than nine-in-ten people who try marijuana don't get addicted to it."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ive-as-heroin/
Why do any of that?

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#256 Old 02-02-2015, 01:42 PM
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I think its difficult when you group weed in the general class of "drugs." I have seen first hand the benefits of weed in some pretty awful situations. Now cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. is quite the opposite.

So you don't like sex or drugs...how about rock and roll?
Music can be very therapeutic

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#257 Old 02-02-2015, 01:46 PM
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Why can't people harm their own lungs, though? And that doesn't apply to edibles and concentrations.

As for the schizophrenia, as far as I am aware that only came from one study and hasn't been repeated since.
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#258 Old 02-02-2015, 01:47 PM
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The immediate effects of taking marijuana include rapid heart beat, disorientation, lack of physical coordination, often followed by depression or sleepiness. Some users suffer panic attacks or anxiety.

But the problem does not end there. According to scientific studies, the active ingredient in cannabis, THC, remains in the body for weeks or longer.

Marijuana smoke contains 50% to 70% more cancer-causing substances than tobacco smoke. One major research study reported that a single cannabis joint could cause as much damage to the lungs as up to five regular cigarettes smoked one after another. Long-time joint smokers often suffer from bronchitis, an inflammation of the respiratory tract.

The drug can affect more than your physical health. Studies in Australia in 2008 linked years of heavy marijuana use to brain abnormalities. This is backed up by earlier research on the long-term effects of marijuana, which indicate changes in the brain similar to those caused by long-term abuse of other major drugs. And a number of studies have shown a connection between continued marijuana use and psychosis.


Marijuana changes the structure of sperm cells, deforming them. Thus even small amounts of marijuana can cause temporary sterility in men. Marijuana use can upset a woman’s menstrual cycle.

Studies show that the mental functions of people who have smoked a lot of marijuana tend to be diminished. The THC in cannabis disrupts nerve cells in the brain affecting memory.

Cannabis is one of the few drugs which causes abnormal cell division which leads to severe hereditary defects. A pregnant woman who regularly smokes marijuana or hashish may give birth prematurely to an undersized, underweight baby. Over the last ten years, many children of marijuana users have been born with reduced initiative and lessened abilities to concentrate and pursue life goals. Studies also suggest that prenatal (before birth) use of the drug may result in birth defects, mental abnormalities and increased risk of leukaemia in children.

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#259 Old 02-02-2015, 01:54 PM
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Citations

And again, even so, why are people not allowed to pick their own poison?

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#260 Old 02-02-2015, 02:02 PM
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Indeed this is a free world. ...for humans anyway

So the choice I have made
May seem strange to you
But who asked you anyway?
It's my life to wreck my own way
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#261 Old 02-02-2015, 02:34 PM
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I think if someone has a condition - cancer/ chronic pain etc - then you have to look at the risk: benefit ratio...In those cases, the use of cannabis derivatives could be justified IMO as the patient has symptoms which need controlling...In the case of a completely healthy person, without symptoms, then they would be potentially being subjected to side effects without any therapeutic gain...
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#262 Old 02-02-2015, 02:39 PM
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I think if someone has a condition - cancer/ chronic pain etc - then you have to look at the risk: benefit ratio...In those cases, the use of cannabis derivatives could be justified IMO as the patient has symptoms which need controlling...In the case of a completely healthy person, without symptoms, then they would be potentially being subjected to side effects without any therapeutic gain...
But again, so what?

We are potentially subjected to lots of side effects from lots of different things. Alcohol has worse side effects, both biological and societal, and yet it is legal for everyone. Pregnant women can buy a six pack and chug it legally. There are warnings posted, but no statutory or judicial limitations on pregnant women downing a 40.

Just because something carries a risk does not mean it should be illegal or even discouraged (except pregnant women drinking, that should totally be discouraged).

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#263 Old 02-02-2015, 02:55 PM
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Why add to those side effects unnecessarily? If you can live without it, why harm your body for no reason? I agree excessive drinking shouldn't happen either, but just because it does doesn't mean that it's perfectly ok to take other recreational drugs too...Think of the impact on healthcare system's budgets...The money used to treat the medical problems people develop from chronic weed smoking could be put toward other things, for example the running of an intensive care unit...Or increased opening hours in GP practices etc...
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#264 Old 02-02-2015, 03:01 PM
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Why add to those side effects unnecessarily? If you can live without it, why harm your body for no reason? I agree excessive drinking shouldn't happen either, but just because it does doesn't mean that it's perfectly ok to take other recreational drugs too...Think of the impact on healthcare system's budgets...The money used to treat the medical problems people develop from chronic weed smoking could be put toward other things, for example the running of an intensive care unit...Or increased opening hours in GP practices etc...
Because the freedom to pick your own poison is an important one. I am a fully cognizant woman able to make decisions about what I put in my body. If I am aware of any potentially harmful proven side effects, and will not be harming anyone else, what right has anyone to stop me? The money used to treat anything that ever developed from pot is a fraction of what is spent due to alcoholism related problems, and not even visible from the amount spent on animal product effects like heart disease, obesity, and other cholesterol/fatty food related health problems.

Why pick pot as the one thing that is stigmatized when there are other far worse problems? (this is a very good conversation, by the way. We haven't had many of these on here as of late, and I am very glad to see they're coming back!)

Also
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I am moving this to the Heap, for obvious reasons.
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#265 Old 02-02-2015, 03:02 PM
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Marijuana smoke contains 50% to 70% more cancer-causing substances than tobacco smoke
That is inaccurate and misleading. Marijuana smoke contains 50-70% more polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke. That study lead to concerns over the potential carcinogenicity of marijuana. Subsequent studies not engineered by anti-drug groups failed to find a correlation between marijuana use and lung cancer.
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Studies in Australia in 2008 linked years of heavy marijuana use to brain abnormalities.
When studying drug issues in australia, their high rate of drug adulteration should be considered. I have lots of aussie friends and the contamination of illicit marijuana with "bricking agents" is the bane of their drug culture. Cartels and dirty dealers add things like glue, wood sealant, varnishing chemicals, baby formula, sugar, iron filings, LEAD filings, even broken and crudely powdered glass to marijuana. Its not just marijuana either, their illegal black market tobacco (chop chop) is adulterated with water- that may not sound bad but the tobacco gets filled with cancer causing molds. Their ecstasy gets adulterated with neurotoxic PMA-2. Seriously, aussie street drug side effect reports dont represent the drug itself.
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The immediate effects of taking marijuana include rapid heart beat, disorientation, lack of physical coordination, often followed by depression or sleepiness. Some users suffer panic attacks or anxiety.
The immediate effects of roller coaster rides include rapid heart beat, disorientation, lack of physical coordination, often followed by depression or sleepiness. Some users suffer panic attacks or anxiety.
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According to scientific studies, the active ingredient in cannabis, THC, remains in the body for weeks or longer.
The active ingredient in kale persists in the body for a year.
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#266 Old 02-02-2015, 03:06 PM
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I know a few potheads and heavy drinkers who are so addicted that cannot go to sleep without a spliff or at least 1 bottle of wine; knowing them has made my already very long list of what my next partner should and shouldn't be even longer
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#267 Old 02-02-2015, 03:21 PM
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Who would have thought that so many vegans could be in favour of recreational drugs

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#268 Old 02-02-2015, 04:09 PM
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Because the freedom to pick your own poison is an important one. I am a fully cognizant woman able to make decisions about what I put in my body. If I am aware of any potentially harmful proven side effects, and will not be harming anyone else, what right has anyone to stop me? The money used to treat anything that ever developed from pot is a fraction of what is spent due to alcoholism related problems, and not even visible from the amount spent on animal product effects like heart disease, obesity, and other cholesterol/fatty food related health problems.

Why pick pot as the one thing that is stigmatized when there are other far worse problems? (this is a very good conversation, by the way. We haven't had many of these on here as of late, and I am very glad to see they're coming back!)

Also
Mod Post:
I am moving this to the Heap, for obvious reasons.
I agree that the money spent by health services on animal product related diseases is far more than pot related diseases and so overall the pot issue is minimal compared to the animal product issue...

I would not particularly single out pot as a harmful drug...I would consider excessive alcohol and cigarette usage to be in a similar bracket...There would be money saved by healthcare services if all of these drugs were controlled more carefully, and certainly if things like pot weren't legalised for recreational reasons...Even if only a small amount of money is saved, that money could still be used by healthcare systems for important services...
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#269 Old 02-02-2015, 04:29 PM
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I agree that the money spent by health services on animal product related diseases is far more than pot related diseases and so overall the pot issue is minimal compared to the animal product issue...

I would not particularly single out pot as a harmful drug...I would consider excessive alcohol and cigarette usage to be in a similar bracket...There would be money saved by healthcare services if all of these drugs were controlled more carefully, and certainly if things like pot weren't legalised for recreational reasons...Even if only a small amount of money is saved, that money could still be used by healthcare systems for important services...
I think the healthcare discussion... is a difficult one due to different countries. In the United States, the way out healthcare system works is people who engage in unhealthy behaviors pay more. At my job, they pay 100% of my healthcare because I do not smoke anything.

And I am not sure that is a good justification for preventing people from being the bosses of their bodies.

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#270 Old 02-02-2015, 04:35 PM
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I think the healthcare discussion... is a difficult one due to different countries. In the United States, the way out healthcare system works is people who engage in unhealthy behaviors pay more. At my job, they pay 100% of my healthcare because I do not smoke anything.

And I am not sure that is a good justification for preventing people from being the bosses of their bodies.
I see what you mean...I was coming from the perspective of a healthcare system being provided by the government...If you are completely paying for your own healthcare then that aspect of my argument becomes redundant...
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