The Fat Acceptance Movement - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-08-2011, 07:32 AM
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I was a fat child. Other kids made fun of me. Even my own father humiliated me in a dysfunctional attempt to get me to eat less. I got into fitness and nutrition as a teenager. I've been buff a number of times in my life and due to misadventures I've also been not so attractive. I know what it feels like on all sides.

I really like the root idea of the fat acceptance movement. Separating your self acceptance and your esteem of others from their weight.

Nobody questions the character of smokers or other people with similar bad habits.

It is impossible to control your health 100% over the entire course of your life. Sooner or later everyone may find themselves being overweight.

I hope the fat acceptance movement succeeds so that when people find themselves overweight they will only have to deal with the issue of reducing and not being discriminated against.

I do think the current fat acceptance movement has some core problems in making themselves more effective. If I had to sum it up, I would call it "denial".

Too many of these advocates state, strongly, that being overweight doesn't have an effect on human health if people try to stay active. There is so much solid medical information to the contrary that making this assertion makes them look like they are tilting at windmills. It is like denying the existence of sunshine.

I think their other mistake is not focusing on unconditional self acceptance first. If you don't accept yourself as you are, other people will not accept you as you are.

The other day I was watching a TV show with a group of friends. Someone mentioned that a couple in the story probably would not happen in reality. A tall super buff magazine model type of person hooking up with a short rotund person. This assertion infuriated a person in the room who took it as an insult. Yet, all this person did was state a commonly observed reality. American rarely seek to hookup with significantly overweight people as their first choice. They weren't insulting anyone, just voicing aloud what we all see.

Not being able to accept and speak frankly about reality without created being insulted isn't going to help fat people be accepted based on the content of their character IMO.
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#2 Old 04-08-2011, 07:48 AM
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Random thoughts:

I've been a 'conventionally' attractive model who was thin/fit and also obese.

I have had more consistently excellent blood work and lifestyle habits as a fat person than when I was a personal trainer and more 'conventionally' attractive.

I have not had an issue with people not finding me attractive or desirable as a fat woman; this is due to a number of factors, I am sure, not just my appearance. I am not referencing 'chubby chasers' or those with a fat fetish either.

I say this all to state that fat people can and do have great sex lives, are found attractive by others and yes, *gasp* have excellent blood work and overall health in general.

Some in the fat-positive and size acceptance movement are wisely promoting a healthier lifestyle for all at any size. I support this. Nearly all could eat better, be more physically active and stress less.

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#3 Old 04-08-2011, 07:59 AM
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Well, I think that weight has a critical limit where merely living healthy isn't enough to ward off the the negative consequences.

Not the same for every person though.

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#4 Old 04-08-2011, 08:01 AM
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Well, I think that weight has a critical limit where merely living healthy isn't enough to ward of the the negative consequences.
.

If this is true, science has not determined that number and there are NO studies of overweight vegans. I wish PCRM would do a study of overweight vegans; I'm sure most everyone would be surprised by the results.

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#5 Old 04-08-2011, 08:07 AM
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I wish PCRM would do a study of overweight vegans

Well, that's gonna be hard.

I have never seen an obese vegan in my life.

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#6 Old 04-08-2011, 08:08 AM
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Well, that's gonna be hard.

I have never seen an obese vegan in my life.

Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. This board (and the world) is full of 'em. You're looking at one now.

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#7 Old 04-08-2011, 08:10 AM
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Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. This board (and the world) is full of 'em. You're looking at one now.

Obese, not overweight.

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#8 Old 04-08-2011, 08:13 AM
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Obese, not overweight.

I am technically classed as obese. I spent the best part of a year as a vegan. (Had to downgrade back to lacto-ovo for family reasons but that's not important in this discussion.)
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#9 Old 04-08-2011, 08:13 AM
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Obese, not overweight.

Sweetie, I've worked in healthcare for most of my life. I know the medical definitions by heart and I am here to tell you that they classify me as obese. Don't get me started on how asinine these classifications are and how little they can actually have to do with total overall health.

That said, I do not deny that having extreme excess weight places an undue burden on the body's organs and systems.

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#10 Old 04-08-2011, 08:18 AM
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The BMI project (some pics NSFW)

http://www.slide.com/r/gkDw79Nx3z-U-...t_embedded_url

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#11 Old 04-08-2011, 08:19 AM
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The BMI is bunk.

Link/pic not working, Love.

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#12 Old 04-08-2011, 08:22 AM
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The BMI is bunk.

Link/pic not working, Love.

It works for me

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#13 Old 04-08-2011, 08:23 AM
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It's working now!

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#14 Old 04-08-2011, 08:25 AM
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But yeah, it shows what bunk all of this 'obese' 'normal' 'overweight' bit is. Every body is different, each body has it's own weight that it's comfortable and yes, healthy, at.

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#15 Old 04-08-2011, 08:35 AM
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Every body is different, each body has it's own weight that it's comfortable and yes, healthy, at.

One can be comfortable and healthy at many weights.

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#16 Old 04-08-2011, 08:37 AM
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One can be comfortable and healthy at many weights.

Isn't that what I just said? One does not have to be skinny to be healthy.

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#17 Old 04-08-2011, 08:39 AM
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Too many of these advocates state, strongly, that being overweight doesn't have an effect on human health if people try to stay active. There is so much solid medical information to the contrary that making this assertion makes them look like they are tilting at windmills. It is like denying the existence of sunshine..

Wellllllll, that's not really accurate. Fat acceptance advocates don't argue that being overweight has no effect on human health whatsoever. What they argue is that it's far more productive to keep the focus on being active and eating well than on weight loss. (That's actually more the Health at Every Size movement, which is linked to fat acceptance but not quite the same.) They argue that improved health is possible without losing weight, and that using weight as a major indicator of health is misguided, because many overweight and obese people are perfectly healthy.
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#18 Old 04-08-2011, 08:57 AM
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Isn't that what I just said?

Mostly, just saying that even if you feel comfortable, it might not be the optimal for your body.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbleforlola View Post

One does not have to be skinny to be healthy.

Oh drat, you just gone and turned skinnyphobic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatricious View Post

They argue that improved health is possible without losing weight, and that using weight as a major indicator of health is misguided, because many overweight and obese people are perfectly healthy.

Well, that's kinda badly argued of them.

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#19 Old 04-08-2011, 10:15 AM
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BMI seriously annoys me. According to it I am technically obese and it says a lot that my doctors are surprised when they find out exactly what my BMI is. But thanks to it I can't go on the medication I need to go on because I have to be under a certain BMI for them to give it to me.

(Yes, I am awfully overweight but I have actually got quite a bit of muscle under my layers of fat (especially on my legs... My calves muscles are huge thanks to the insane amount of walking I've done all my life thanks to having dogs all my life ))
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#20 Old 04-08-2011, 10:28 AM
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Obese, not overweight.

"Obese" isn't is fat as you think. I was reading an article once about which celebrities would be classified as obese, according to medical standards and I remember reading that the Fight Club version of Brad Pitt would put him in that category.

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#21 Old 04-08-2011, 10:31 AM
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"Obese" isn't is fat as you think. I was reading an article once about which celebrities would be classified as obese, according to medical standards and I remember reading that the Fight Club version of Brad Pitt would put him in that category.



Don't think so, hell, he's not even that beefed out.

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#22 Old 04-08-2011, 10:33 AM
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Don't think so, hell, he's not even that beefed out.

And that's exactly why it's bunk.

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#23 Old 04-08-2011, 10:35 AM
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I agree with the idea that fat people shouldn't be judged as to their intelligence or character based on their appearance alone, which unfortunately does happen a lot.

I do think the fat acceptance movement has some serious issues in terms of denying/minimizing the risks of excess weight as it relates to long term health.

I also think they downplay, incorrectly, the amount of control that the average fat person has over their weight. Some people might of course have medical challenges that make staying at a healthy weight more difficult, but honestly I think the majority of overweight/obese people in the US are likely that way due to lifestyle factors.
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#24 Old 04-08-2011, 10:37 AM
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"Obese" isn't is fat as you think. I was reading an article once about which celebrities would be classified as obese, according to medical standards and I remember reading that the Fight Club version of Brad Pitt would put him in that category.

I doubt that very seriously. Maybe overweight, but not obese. My husband is classified as in the mid-range of "overweight" and he's bigger than Brad Pitt was in that movie.
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#25 Old 04-08-2011, 10:39 AM
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And that's exactly why it's bunk.

Checked on the Internet too, and he had a BMI of 22, which is far from obese.

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#26 Old 04-08-2011, 10:41 AM
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The BMI project (some pics NSFW)

http://www.slide.com/r/gkDw79Nx3z-U-...t_embedded_url

Very nice! I wish it included more men for comparison (the obese cat was a nice touch, I have one myself).


E.T.A:: Regarding the BMI: (which is kind of a crappy tool for measuring one's mass, but its currently the most accessible one available today) that measurment doesn't take into account body composition at all ((i.e. the distribution and mass of fat tissues versus muscle tissues and organs, etc. making up a person's body)) which is where the heart of its inaccuracy lies.
To get a true, detailed analysis of ones body composition, you would have to have some sort of full-body medical imaging done ((like a CT or MRI scan)). Obviously, its a lot cheaper and safer to look at a chart and find your number than to have expensive scans done to prove how much of your mass is fit and how much is flab!

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#27 Old 04-08-2011, 11:02 AM
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one measure is abdominal girth and belly fat. if you've got a lot of fat around your middle, this portends very poorly for your health. i don't think there's any use in ridiculing the obese or making them feel like they are second class citizens, but to pretend that this can in any way be healthy is a big disservice. rather, obesity needs to be looked at for what it is, a health issue. there is enormous cost to this in terms of healthcare. who will pay for it?

i think there are limits to how much muscle you can have and be healthy. i was around 235 and 5'10" and not "fat", because i worked out constantly in the gym and ate even more constantly to hold that weight. was i healthy? not at all. now i'm at 210. i'm trying to break myself down and get to 180 lbs, maybe even 170 lbs. carrying so much weight is hard on your organs, even if it is mostly muscle. thin people with good health habits are the healthiest, so while i'm not a strictly going by bmi, i think bmi is still an important indicator.
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#28 Old 04-08-2011, 11:09 AM
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I agree with the idea that fat people shouldn't be judged as to their intelligence or character based on their appearance alone, which unfortunately does happen a lot.

I do think the fat acceptance movement has some serious issues in terms of denying/minimizing the risks of excess weight as it relates to long term health.

I also think they downplay, incorrectly, the amount of control that the average fat person has over their weight. Some people might of course have medical challenges that make staying at a healthy weight more difficult, but honestly I think the majority of overweight/obese people in the US are likely that way due to lifestyle factors.

agreed. i do think it's lifestyle. my brother was just in sweden, and he said that you don't see fat people, and if you do, they aren't swedish, they're americans. restaurant portions are smaller. if you order a coke, you get a 6 oz cola in a bottle, warm. i was watching the movie "refer madness", and i was struck by how thin everyone in the film was. fast forward to today, and look at a crowd of people next time you go walmart. the average person is at least 30 lbs heavier.
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#29 Old 04-08-2011, 11:14 AM
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I doubt that very seriously. Maybe overweight, but not obese. My husband is classified as in the mid-range of "overweight" and he's bigger than Brad Pitt was in that movie.

That's just what I read. It stuck out in my mind, because it just seemed so impossible. But according to the article, obese he was. I could be wrong about the movie, but it was def. Brad Pitt. And I've never considered him overweight let alone obese in the slightest.

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#30 Old 04-08-2011, 11:15 AM
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Well, that's gonna be hard.

I have never seen an obese vegan in my life.

*jumping up and down frantically*

OHH PICK ME! PICK ME!

Tam! RUGH!
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