"Corrective rape" against lesbians in South Africa - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-19-2011, 10:18 AM
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Lesbians in South Africa are often the victims as men seek to "straighten" their sexuality.

Women's groups in South Africa have reported an alarming increase in rape cases.

In 2009, more than 68,000 sexual offenses were reported. Among the victims were many lesbians who were raped by men to "correct their sexuality".

Only a fraction of the cases result in prosecution, let alone conviction, because of prejudice among the police themselves.

In the first of a two-part series on sex crimes in South Africa, Al Jazeera's Jonah Hull looks at so-called corrective rape.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...535550215.html

"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#2 Old 02-19-2011, 10:21 AM
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"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#3 Old 02-19-2011, 10:30 AM
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It's awful. Much of the world still has a long way to go when it comes down to the basic human rights of women, children, homosexuals, etc.
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#4 Old 02-19-2011, 10:50 AM
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****ing monstrous. I don't understand how people can think something so awful is a viable way to fix anything.

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#5 Old 02-19-2011, 10:55 AM
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I've spent all day just feeling like everything is bad. The world is WRONG. Then something comes along and reminds me, it's worse than I think.
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#6 Old 02-19-2011, 10:59 AM
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I've spent all day just feeling like everything is bad. The world is WRONG. Then something comes along and reminds me, it's worse than I think.


The fact that you care shows much hope for humanity. Only when apathy and willful ignorance have free reign will humanity be truly doomed.

Tam! RUGH!
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#7 Old 02-19-2011, 01:00 PM
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The fact that you care shows much hope for humanity. Only when apathy and willful ignorance have free reign will humanity be truly doomed.

No amount of social/political/cultural reform is going to change the fact that humans have an innate, genetic capacity for this kind of aggression and cruelty which is why I'm as strongly for paradise engineering as I am. We should use genetic engineering to create humans who are kind and empathetic and eliminate suffering throughout the animal kingdom.
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#8 Old 02-19-2011, 01:06 PM
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I guess Leviathan is your favorite book?

"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#9 Old 02-19-2011, 01:07 PM
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I guess Leviathan is your favorite book?

I've never read it but I recommend the Hedonistic Imperative by David Pearce
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#10 Old 02-19-2011, 01:11 PM
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I've never read it but I recommend the Hedonistic Imperative by David Pearce

I dunno, I think I have a little more faith in humans than that. I think cruelty is socially-conditioned, not innate. We don't need genetic modification, we just need better communities that create people who at their basic core live life from a orientation of peace, kindness, love, charity and responsibility.

"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#11 Old 02-19-2011, 01:16 PM
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yeah, because rape will make heterosexual sex seem so awesome to lesbians, they will never want anything else again
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#12 Old 02-19-2011, 01:16 PM
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I dunno, I think I have a little more faith in humans than that. I think cruelty is socially-conditioned, not innate. We don't need genetic modification, we just need better communities that create people who at their basic core live life from a orientation of peace, kindness, love, charity and responsibility.

Beautifully stated.
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#13 Old 02-19-2011, 01:18 PM
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I dunno, I think I have a little more faith in humans than that. I think cruelty is socially-conditioned, not innate. We don't need genetic modification, we just need better communities that create people who at their basic core live life from a orientation of peace, kindness, love, charity and responsibility.

I respectfully disagree but I do think there's a strong correlation between poverty/socio-economic inequality and crimes like this.
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#14 Old 02-19-2011, 01:52 PM
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I respectfully disagree but I do think there's a strong correlation between poverty/socio-economic inequality and crimes like this.

I think you hear about it more in the lower class, but the same thing happens middle to upper class as well.

"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#15 Old 02-19-2011, 03:43 PM
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I think you hear about it more in the lower class, but the same thing happens middle to upper class as well.

Yeah, it's a common misconception that crimes like rape, child sex abuse and domestic violence are more prevalent among poorer people, but that's not the case. Middle and upper class individuals just have an easier time getting away with these kinds of crimes.
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#16 Old 02-19-2011, 05:26 PM
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I think you hear about it more in the lower class, but the same thing happens middle to upper class as well.

You're right but a belief that raping someone will correct their sexual orientation has a lot to do with poor education which is related to poverty. I still think there is a correlation between crime in general and poverty/socioeconomic inequality.
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#17 Old 02-19-2011, 05:27 PM
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Even if it were remotely possible to "turn" a lesbian by a man raping her, this would have zero effect on bisexual women, yes?

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#18 Old 02-19-2011, 05:37 PM
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You're right but a belief that raping someone will correct their sexual orientation has a lot to do with poor education which is related to poverty. I still think there is a correlation between crime in general and poverty/socioeconomic inequality.

Oh, I'm sure some frat house somewhere has already thought up that solution about raping lesbians to make them straight. In fact a district judge of Hamilton County, Tennessee, already made the argument, and judges usually aren't poor. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/11/26...male-soldiers/. Sure I think poor education (and cultural homophobia) has something to do with it, especially in the context of South Africa. But education hasn't stopped millionaire televangelists from believing that you can "cure" homosexuality through therapy, a position that the American Psychological and Psychiatric Association condemns as dangerous.

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#19 Old 02-19-2011, 07:11 PM
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Reading it made my stomach woozy, sigh.
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#20 Old 02-19-2011, 09:16 PM
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I do think there's a strong correlation between poverty/socio-economic inequality and crimes like this.

There *is* a correlation. And yes, correlation does not equal causation...

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#21 Old 02-19-2011, 09:17 PM
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Even if it were remotely possible to "turn" a lesbian by a man raping her, this would have zero effect on bisexual women, yes?

Rape has an effect on everyone...even us unholy bisexuals. (I know what you're saying, just taking off on a tangental play of words).

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#22 Old 02-19-2011, 10:06 PM
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#23 Old 02-20-2011, 02:52 AM
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****ing monstrous. I don't understand how people can think something so awful is a viable way to fix anything.

In some cultures, rape is seen as the women's fault... For example, in some parts of Peru, if a woman is raped, she can be forced to marry her rapist by her family... In other parts of the world, a woman can be killed for being raped, just like for having an affair, as again, it's seen as the woman's fault for being a temptress, or unfaithful (possibly having its roots in Abrahamic faith? As women are demonised in the Bible right from genesis imo). There have been cases of underaged girls being raped and the rapist not being convicted because the little girl 'provoked' them.

Probably not so many people know this, as it's a fairly international board, but marital rape was only made illegal in the UK in 1991... So before that, it wasn't seen as a crime because the woman is the property of the man...

I in no way intend to come across as a cultural relativist, as I don't think rape is ever in any way excusable (even though one in four people surveyed in the UK by Amnesty International seem to believe that if a woman is drunk, or wearing revealing clothing, or flirting and ends up raped, it is partially, if not entirely her fault)... But I think that rape is seen in different cultures, as something which isn't so bad... Whether it is a man's right to do what he pleases with his 'property', the woman's fault, or a weapon of war.
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#24 Old 02-21-2011, 10:05 AM
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Rape has an effect on everyone...even us unholy bisexuals. (I know what you're saying, just taking off on a tangental play of words).

I know quite a few holy bisexuals.

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I in no way intend to come across as a cultural relativist, as I don't think rape is ever in any way excusable (even though one in four people surveyed in the UK by Amnesty International seem to believe that if a woman is drunk, or wearing revealing clothing, or flirting and ends up raped, it is partially, if not entirely her fault)... But I think that rape is seen in different cultures, as something which isn't so bad... Whether it is a man's right to do what he pleases with his 'property', the woman's fault, or a weapon of war.

Do you think that being a rape victim is easier or harder to deal with when people around you shrug it off?

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#25 Old 02-26-2011, 01:49 PM
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Do you think that being a rape victim is easier or harder to deal with when people around you shrug it off?

Much harder, I would say.

"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#26 Old 02-26-2011, 06:31 PM
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I dunno, I think I have a little more faith in humans than that. I think cruelty is socially-conditioned, not innate. We don't need genetic modification, we just need better communities that create people who at their basic core live life from a orientation of peace, kindness, love, charity and responsibility.


From different things that I have seen, people are by nature violent, sex-obsessed creatures who would think of nothing to rape and kill anyone (of either gender) just for pleasure. But then with a conscience, and the ability to think, people can control the urges and express the violence and sex-based things into other venues (I even remember reading that sex with animals was apparently very common in the past even--just because it was accessible). Then some people manage to realize that they will only treat people with the same respect they would want, in the hopes that others will do the same (i.e. they don't kill others so others won't kill them or their loved ones), which makes it appear that people are not cruel violent people. Of course, even the terms "cruel" and "violent" is based on social viewpoints.

Really, people just function to protect themselves, and to protect those they care about--and hopefully they extend some protection to others which would prevent them from doing "bad" things. If people could live with themselves, and it wasn't illegal, murder and rape would probably be much higher than it is. for that matter both are way too high now, even in the "civilized" countries.


The whole "corrective rape" and other items to "punish" or otherwise "teach people" things are just people's ways to justify that they are not doing anything wrong.
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#27 Old 02-28-2011, 06:30 PM
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yeah, because rape will make heterosexual sex seem so awesome to lesbians, they will never want anything else again

Yeah, it's the absolutely insane logic behind this that makes it even more sad. Rape is horrific enough without people thinking they're doing a good thing by violently assaulting someone.

But... I mean... HOW do you come to that conclusion? "Duuuuuh, oh she doesn't like having sex with men? I guess I'll just force it on her in the most painful, traumatic and soul destroying way possible then, THAT'LL fix her."

Seriously, what the hell. That combination of stupidity and cruelty is even more horrifying than just plain old cruelty.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
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