AZ Congresswoman and over a dozen others shot - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
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#61 Old 01-08-2011, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Anyone who didn't bring an axe to grind is going to conclude that this guy is crazy.

It has a lot in common with the guy that flew his plane into the IRS a while back. In the first 10 posts on the first page, only one person even managed to sneak in some concern about the victims.

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Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

That "hitlist" was put out prior to the November elections. It was meant to show those that voted for the Health Care bill and to have them voted out of office.
Im pretty sure it had nothing to do with a desire to see anyone killed.
Sadly, I do think that charts like this could cause an unstable person to act in a less than honorable fashion.

My prayers for everyone that was involved this morning (except for the shooter)

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#62 Old 01-08-2011, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by greenhumanist View Post

It's all in his name "Havoc John"

Why do you hate his dog?
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#63 Old 01-08-2011, 09:33 PM
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It's all in his name "Havoc Jon" He never has much to offer just the right wing talking points and gets pleasure in irritating us. I think we should just ignore him, never respond.

actually it's not just in the name, if you look at the picture in my avatar the hair one on the right who is being disciplined for being a bad boy is Havoc, and (only crazy people cant spell John) the guy sitting on the log doing the talking is John; hence the name havocjohn short for Havoc and John...... but anyone that has been around for a little while would have known that, the ignorance of some is apparent.
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#64 Old 01-08-2011, 09:34 PM
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Why do you hate his dog?

friggin dog haters.... bet she hangs out with Vick on the weekends.
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#65 Old 01-08-2011, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

friggin dog haters.... bet she hangs out with Vick on the weekends.

Has this poster denounced Vick?

If not, they must endorse him!
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#66 Old 01-08-2011, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Has this poster denounced Vick?

If not, they must endorse him!

I can't say if they have or haven't, but according to eleven's clone; yes, that would be an endorsement if she hasn't; maybe she too fights dogs.
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#67 Old 01-09-2011, 01:23 AM
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I don't know if and why the congresswoman was specifically targeted, but there are many similar forms of violence and contempt that seem to be the extreme culmination of general over-the-top and aggressive anti-government views.

I don't really know where all the paranoid anti-government attitudes are ultimately coming from. They are present in left-wing conspiracy theories and especially in anarchism, which I think is usually a radically leftist movement. But they also seem to be inherent to the American conservative worldview as such, and can be seen in all the talk about how "the government is gonna take your money" and how you need to get them (the politicians and everyone representing the federal government) out of your life. And how you need to prepare yourself and form a one-man militia for when they're gonna come and take your freedoms away. Those kind of views are present even here on VB.

This anti-government sentiment is so strong that even mainstream politicians themselves use it -- and they succeed in using it, so much so that people who view themselves as distrustful of governmental power still vote in the same type of power-hungry opportunistic politicians again and again. Curiously, this anti-government paranoia also seems to be inconsistently coupled with strong patriotism (and here is the difference between right and left in anti-government views).

It seems like these extreme and sentimental forms a distrust of government can take -- which go way beyond a healthy mistrust of authority -- are the dark side of how much individuals and individual freedoms are emphasized in American culture, and/or how so many issues get politicized through the dichotomy of the individual vs. the government.

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#68 Old 01-09-2011, 08:13 AM
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Poor taste to... or follow the hit list with an invitation to shoot a fully automatic m16, without bothering to put a period at the end of the previous sentence.
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#69 Old 01-09-2011, 08:21 AM
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Jeez Louise, simply listing Mein Kampf among a list of "favorite books" you have read, is not an indication of anything. This is the US. We are allowed to read anything we want, and shouldn't be criticized because we read something that is politically unpopular. It does not indicate, one way or another, anything about the man being balanced or unbalanced. It just means he is relatively well-read.
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#70 Old 01-09-2011, 08:27 AM
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This is what happens when people start labeling their political opponents and neighbors as "the enemy". I posted months ago that people are playing with fire and it's going to come back to bite them.
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#71 Old 01-09-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

the name havocjohn short for Havoc and John...... but anyone that has been around for a little while would have known that, the ignorance of some is apparent.

Yikes...I did not know that!

Havoc is so handsome.
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#72 Old 01-09-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by julz View Post

Havoc is so handsome.

RIP Havoc

person of interest sought by Pima county



looks like every other 50 year old desert rat i've seen

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#73 Old 01-09-2011, 01:23 PM
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RIP Havoc

I did not know that either. My apologies if I was insensitive.
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#74 Old 01-09-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

That's good, after the fact, but in general, it's just in poor taste to put a gun sight target on people.

Poor taste? How about Poor intelligence? That woman is an idiot, plain and simple.

Hopefully this tragedy will keep her out of any future elected political positions.

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#75 Old 01-09-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by julz View Post

I did not know that either. My apologies if I was insensitive.

actually, maybe i should apologize, perhaps he hasn't mentioned it on the boards yet, i didn't mean to invade john's privacy if i did.

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#76 Old 01-09-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post

Poor taste? How about Poor intelligence? That woman is an idiot, plain and simple.

Hopefully this tragedy will keep her out of any future elected political positions.

interesting, so it is in poor intelligence when Palin does it, but you seem to have no problem with it when as Red demonstrated earlier in this thread it was done by Democrats.

Why do you find it acceptable and not considered in poor intelligence when it is done by a Democratic party/canidate?
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#77 Old 01-09-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by julz View Post

I did not know that either. My apologies if I was insensitive.

You have nothing to apologize for, Havoc was a handsome dog.

You weren't insensitive (IMO), you expressed an opinion I have held for almost 13 yrs. His death doesn't change that he was handsome, your not knowing either what my screen name stood for or about his death doesn't make your observations wrong or insensitive; he was a great dog who's time had come.

Attachment 14171
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#78 Old 01-09-2011, 02:00 PM
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actually, maybe i should apologize, perhaps he hasn't mentioned it on the boards yet, i didn't mean to invade john's privacy if i did.

nothing to apologize for, I did post about his passing on the boards back when it happened.... it's kool.
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#79 Old 01-09-2011, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

interesting, so it is in poor intelligence when Palin does it, but you seem to have no problem with it when as Red demonstrated earlier in this thread it was done by Democrats.

Why do you find it acceptable and not considered in poor intelligence when it is done by a Democratic party/canidate?

That's not the only unintelligent move she has made. But it is true that news outlets did highlight that her 'target' campaign when reporting this story, which is somewhat relevant seeing it WAS a shooting and people DID die.

Either way, Palin was not the one responsible for the shooting. Though it was most likely an individual who aligned himself with her party.

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#80 Old 01-09-2011, 02:09 PM
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From what I've read from legitimate news sources, the motivations of the attack are not yet clear. Luckily, the shooter did not off himself in the process, so I'm sure we'll learn lots more about him in the near future. However, since the target was a Congresswoman, it's sensible to think that politics is probably involved. Violence has no place in our political process.

I am very sad for all of the victims and their families. Hopefully the shooter and his alleged accomplice will spend the rest of their miserable lives in prison.
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#81 Old 01-09-2011, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I don't know if and why the congresswoman was specifically targeted, but there are many similar forms of violence and contempt that seem to be the extreme culmination of general over-the-top and aggressive anti-government views.

I don't really know where all the paranoid anti-government attitudes are ultimately coming from. They are present in left-wing conspiracy theories and especially in anarchism, which I think is usually a radically leftist movement. But they also seem to be inherent to the American conservative worldview as such, and can be seen in all the talk about how "the government is gonna take your money" and how you need to get them (the politicians and everyone representing the federal government) out of your life. And how you need to prepare yourself and form a one-man militia for when they're gonna come and take your freedoms away. Those kind of views are present even here on VB.

This anti-government sentiment is so strong that even mainstream politicians themselves use it -- and they succeed in using it, so much so that people who view themselves as distrustful of governmental power still vote in the same type of power-hungry opportunistic politicians again and again. Curiously, this anti-government paranoia also seems to be inconsistently coupled with strong patriotism (and here is the difference between right and left in anti-government views).

It seems like these extreme and sentimental forms a distrust of government can take -- which go way beyond a healthy mistrust of authority -- are the dark side of how much individuals and individual freedoms are emphasized in American culture, and/or how so many issues get politicized through the dichotomy of the individual vs. the government.

At this time I don't believe anyone is sure why this particular congresswomen, the judge or any of the other people killed and wounded were targeted by the individual in question. Sometimes we never know what makes an individual respond/act in certain ways; this is just one more example of that.

Anti gov't sentiment comes from many places. Some of us that believe in the limited role of gov't at both the federal and state levels recognize the abuse of power that always follows when the gov't is given too much power. Though I recognize that there is a place for gov't and there is a role for gov't agencies to play I believe that role should be limited and when they fail even in the areas they should be involved I question why we should grant them more authority when they cant even do the things they are already supposedly doing; ie the economic meltdown in 2008.

We have regulatory agencies in place who's job it was to ensure that the economy didn't collapse. Yet they failed to do their job that we the tax payer were paying them to do; why exactly would we give them more authority over our lives when they couldn't do what they were already charged with doing?

As to the mistrust of gov't power: history is full of examples of what happens when the central govt has to much power and authority to enact policies without the consent of the governed. You may trust the gov't, but I don't.
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#82 Old 01-09-2011, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post

That's not the only unintelligent move she has made. But it is true that news outlets did highlight that her 'target' campaign when reporting this story, which is somewhat relevant seeing it WAS a shooting and people DID die.

Either way, Palin was not the one responsible for the shooting. Though it was most likely an individual who aligned himself with her party.

Really, two of his favorite reading material were Mein Kamph and the Communist Manifesto, exactly how does that align with Palin's party? Maybe instead of speculating and saying things that are unfounded since no one seems to know what was going through this clowns head, we should quit the partsian bs.....

As for unintelligent things Palin has done in the past: are you suggesting they are on par with a Senator running for office who thought there were 60 states in the union?
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#83 Old 01-09-2011, 04:14 PM
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friggin dog haters.... bet she hangs out with Vick on the weekends.

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#84 Old 01-09-2011, 04:58 PM
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#85 Old 01-09-2011, 05:05 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwB3o5L5XY0

what a joke; maybe it was something Obama said when he was trying to help dems get elected in Nov..... and maybe the guy just woke up on the wrong side of the bed that morning and wanted to be famous or infamous.

Personally I think it was Pelos's fault.
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#86 Old 01-09-2011, 05:28 PM
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Every time something like this happens, the media talks about what a loser the perpetrator is. Hey, maybe that had something to do with his unhappiness and desire to kill. And maybe instead of talking about him and what he did non-stop, for days on end, they might want to investigate ways to prevent such things from happening again in the future. An ounce of prevention perhaps?
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#87 Old 01-09-2011, 05:37 PM
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After careful consideration, I'm blaming Palin.

Her rants about how we shouldn't have the word "God" on her money, and her recommendation to read Karl Marx obviously aligns with this guy's interests.

Also, Palin liked the video that shows the burning of the American flag, same as this guy.
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#88 Old 01-09-2011, 05:47 PM
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After careful consideration, I'm blaming Palin.

Her rants about how we shouldn't have the word "God" on her money, and her recommendation to read Karl Marx obviously aligns with this guy's interests.

Also, Palin liked the video that shows the burning of the American flag, same as this guy.

As well as her belief that police are unconstitutional and all college education should be free.
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#89 Old 01-09-2011, 06:45 PM
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However, since the target was a Congresswoman, it's sensible to think that politics is probably involved.

Given that the shooter appeared to be suffering from dementia, and wrote in a manner that was completely incoherent, it makes more sense to conclude that nothing more complicated than random senseless violence was involved.
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#90 Old 01-09-2011, 06:47 PM
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Given that the shooter appeared to be suffering from dementia, and wrote in a manner that was completely incoherent, it makes more sense to conclude that nothing more complicated than random senseless violence was involved.

+1
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