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-   -   AZ Congresswoman and over a dozen others shot (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/120715-az-congresswoman-over-dozen-others-shot.html)

havocjohn 01-08-2011 08:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

I'm not making any rules. Just offering observations based on recent posts made on these boards.

Have you denounced the shootings after attributing them to an ALF or ELF member? And to you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

And thanks for answering the roll call.

where did I announce they were an alf or elf member? I think you need to take reading comprehension classes if that is what you think I wrote.

Answering the roll call? You need to quit ass/u/ming things about me. You have no idea what you are talking about. Did I presume you were talking about Red and I earlier; oh yeah. I do know that Red is a founding member of this board, and I am unsure if he is a veg#n or not; nor do I care, that his business. However, I know there are a few who continue to post ill informed allegations about me, in some twisted effort to prove their superiority in some manner. It is obvious you are among the ranks of the twisted legion.

I do know that it is a violation of the rules to try to intimidate someone into not posting so keep on making your assine allegations.

mlp 01-08-2011 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

i am amazed that people don't realize that hateful, vile filled rhetoric about "killing our enemies here at home" and violence filled imagery leads to people who were on the edge already to go overboard and do things like this.

Agreed.

GhostUser 01-08-2011 08:34 PM

The youtube video clearly demonstrates the shooters ties to right wing ideas.

The conscious dreaming bit comes from David Icke, a bizzare British right wing commentator. The gold standard stuff is the eternal rant of Glen Beck. The poor English grammar bit of those living in the 8th district is a reference to Spanish speakers in the area.

Hell, even the Pima County Sheriff called Arizona a mecca of hate and bigotry and denounced right wing talk radio as an inciter of political violence.

GhostUser 01-08-2011 08:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

where did I announce they were an alf or elf member? I think you need to take reading comprehension classes if that is what you think I wrote.

Answering the roll call? You need to quit ass/u/ming things about me. You have no idea what you are talking about. Did I presume you were talking about Red and I earlier; oh yeah. I do know that Red is a founding member of this board, and I am unsure if he is a veg#n or not; nor do I care, that his business. However, I know there are a few who continue to post ill informed allegations about me, in some twisted effort to prove their superiority in some manner. It is obvious you are among the ranks of the twisted legion.

I do know that it is a violation of the rules to try to intimidate someone into not posting so keep on making your assine allegations.

Post away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by you View Post

The latest story I read implied the individual in question was a pot head loner, concerned about the enviroment..... sounds more like an elf or alf supporter to me than a Palin supporter.

Have you denounced the shootings?

havocjohn 01-08-2011 08:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

Post away.



Have you denounced the shootings?

are you really suggesting that "sounds more like an elf or alf supporter to me than a Palin supporter." is the same as claiming they are a member of elf or alf? Did you drop out of jr high?

have I denounced the shooting....... what reason would I have to denounce it? I have nothing to do with it? Am I saddened by it sure. Am I going to lose sleep over it; no. Nor will I lose sleep over the people that were beheaded in Mexico, or those that were killed in the latest bombing of a Christian Church in the middle east, or the death of anyone I personally don't know.

Exactly what is it you think I need to denounce about this shooting?

GhostUser 01-08-2011 08:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

are you really suggesting that "sounds more like an elf or alf supporter to me than a Palin supporter." is the same as claiming they are a member of elf or alf? Did you drop out of jr high?

I'm suggesting you tried and failed miserably to make the connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

have I denounced the shooting....... what reason would I have to denounce it? I have nothing to do with it? Am I saddened by it sure. Am I going to lose sleep over it; no. Nor will I lose sleep over the people that were beheaded in Mexico, or those that were killed in the latest bombing of a Christian Church in the middle east, or the death of anyone I personally don't know.

Exactly what is it you think I need to denounce about this shooting?

A simple statement that walking up to the Congresswoman from Arizona, pointing a gun at her, and shooting her in the face was a cowardly act would be fine.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

The youtube video clearly demonstrates the shooters ties to right wing ideas.

The conscious dreaming bit comes from David Icke, a bizzare British right wing commentator. The gold standard stuff is the eternal rant of Glen Beck. The poor English grammar bit of those living in the 8th district is a reference to Spanish speakers in the area.

Hell, even the Pima County Sheriff called Arizona a mecca of hate and bigotry and denounced right wing talk radio as an inciter of political violence.

and one of his favorite books was Mien Kampf; a book that was written by an individual that adopted the ideals of the "progressive movement" of early 20th century American politicians such as Woodrow Wilson, and who current "progressive" politicians such as Hilary Clinton still claim to believe in.... as with a lot of individuals with twisted ideas, I highly doubt there is one simple answer to why this clown did what he did.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 08:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

I'm suggesting you tried and failed miserably to make the connection.

failed miserably??? you are an idiot aren't you? are you related to eleven by any chance?

A simple statement that walking up to the Congresswoman from Arizona, pointing a gun at her, and shooting her in the face was a cowardly act would be fine.

I don't disagree that it is a cowardly act. But what exactly do I have to denounce? I had nothing to do with what this clown did? You have again made assine assumptions with no basis in fact about me..... so once again I can only suggest you pull your head out and breath.

GhostUser 01-08-2011 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

I don't disagree that it is a cowardly act. But what exactly do I have to denounce? I had nothing to do with what this clown did? You have again made assine assumptions with no basis in fact about me..... so once again I can only suggest you pull your head out and breath.

It's been denounced by everyone from John McCain to John Boehner to her Republican colleagues from Arizona as a senseless violent act. For you to not denounce it implies you endorse it. Fair enough.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

It's been denounced by everyone from John McCain to John Boehner to her Republican colleagues from Arizona as a senseless violent act. For you to not denounce it implies you endorse it. Fair enough.

let me guess, your not related to eleven, you are eleven...... isn't it a violation of the rules to have 2 accounts eleven?

oh and since I have not supported the actions of the individual a sane person would presume that an unspoken written condemnation of the action was implied, especially when one considers the other written words of an individual such as claiming hte individual was taking a lot of drugs, and other comments which anyone with half a brain would read as opposition to an act, not an endorsement of an act.

Red 01-08-2011 09:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

It's been denounced by everyone from John McCain to John Boehner to her Republican colleagues from Arizona as a senseless violent act. For you to not denounce it implies you endorse it. Fair enough.

Just a quick check shows the majority of people in this thread apparently must endorse it, since only a few have come out and specifically denounced it.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

It's been denounced by everyone from John McCain to John Boehner to her Republican colleagues from Arizona as a senseless violent act. For you to not denounce it implies you endorse it. Fair enough.

Since you have not openly denounced it yourself I guess that would imply you support the shooting?

GhostUser 01-08-2011 09:13 PM

I'm Lucky. Not sure about eleven.

I'm not surprised that you won't denounce the shooting given what I've read over the last few months. It's weak though.

GhostUser 01-08-2011 09:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

Since you have not openly denounced it yourself I guess that would imply you support the shooting?

I denounce it.

Again.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:16 PM

again? all you did earlier was show concern about those that support the 2nd amendment, I went and looked.

So based on your earlier post to me, we can conclude that the only reason you now proclaim to denounce it is because you were called on your implied support of it.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

You're ridiculous.

how so? according to you, unless someone came out and publicly denounced it they must support it, and Red is right, very few people on this thread have publicly denounced the shooting, they have made a lot of political statements though.

GhostUser 01-08-2011 09:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

again? all you did earlier was show concern about those that support the 2nd amendment, I went and looked.

So based on your earlier post to me, we can conclude that the only reason you now proclaim to denounce it is because you were called on your implied support of it.

I'm not going to play your game. You tried and failed to portray the shooter as an ALF or ELF member. You lose.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

I'm Lucky. Not sure about eleven.

I'm not surprised that you won't denounce the shooting given what I've read over the last few months. It's weak though.

what exactly you think I should do? do I agree wit h what this nut job did; no. Do I support what this nut job did; no. I am not a politician nor am I trying to earn brownie points by making some kind of public statement about a disturbed individual who killed at least 6 people this morning.

Since I have nothing to do with the situation my feeling about what happened are irrelevent, except in the course of a discussion about the topic. If you are too ignorant to comprehend that my written words are not in any way supportive of what this idiot did that is your limitation not mine; and I have no intention of apologizing for your limitations.

das_nut 01-08-2011 09:23 PM

I think it's pretty easy to tie the shooter to either the right wing or the left wing, depending on your bias.

From the guy's deleted myspace page:

Quote:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno."

- Source.

And there's this:

Quote:
In a clip endorsed but not uploaded by Loughner, a person wearing a hooded sweatshirt and a black bin liner over his or her legs sets fire to an American flag sitting atop a mound of earth.

- Source

It seems he didn't like fiat money (he wanted money backed by the gold standard, a common tea bagger demand, but seemed offended by the "In God We Trust" motto on paper money, which isn't typical tea bagger territory).

Anyone who didn't bring an axe to grind is going to conclude that this guy is crazy.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Anyone who didn't bring an axe to grind is going to conclude that this guy is crazy.

aint that the truth!

Red 01-08-2011 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Anyone who didn't bring an axe to grind is going to conclude that this guy is crazy.

It has a lot in common with the guy that flew his plane into the IRS a while back. In the first 10 posts on the first page, only one person even managed to sneak in some concern about the victims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

That "hitlist" was put out prior to the November elections. It was meant to show those that voted for the Health Care bill and to have them voted out of office.
Im pretty sure it had nothing to do with a desire to see anyone killed.
Sadly, I do think that charts like this could cause an unstable person to act in a less than honorable fashion.

My prayers for everyone that was involved this morning (except for the shooter)


Red 01-08-2011 09:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhumanist View Post

It's all in his name "Havoc John"

Why do you hate his dog?

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhumanist View Post

It's all in his name "Havoc Jon" He never has much to offer just the right wing talking points and gets pleasure in irritating us. I think we should just ignore him, never respond.

actually it's not just in the name, if you look at the picture in my avatar the hair one on the right who is being disciplined for being a bad boy is Havoc, and (only crazy people cant spell John) the guy sitting on the log doing the talking is John; hence the name havocjohn short for Havoc and John...... but anyone that has been around for a little while would have known that, the ignorance of some is apparent.

havocjohn 01-08-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post

Why do you hate his dog?

friggin dog haters.... bet she hangs out with Vick on the weekends.

das_nut 01-08-2011 11:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

friggin dog haters.... bet she hangs out with Vick on the weekends.

Has this poster denounced Vick?

If not, they must endorse him!

havocjohn 01-08-2011 11:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Has this poster denounced Vick?

If not, they must endorse him!

I can't say if they have or haven't, but according to eleven's clone; yes, that would be an endorsement if she hasn't; maybe she too fights dogs.

Sevenseas 01-09-2011 01:23 AM

I don't know if and why the congresswoman was specifically targeted, but there are many similar forms of violence and contempt that seem to be the extreme culmination of general over-the-top and aggressive anti-government views.

I don't really know where all the paranoid anti-government attitudes are ultimately coming from. They are present in left-wing conspiracy theories and especially in anarchism, which I think is usually a radically leftist movement. But they also seem to be inherent to the American conservative worldview as such, and can be seen in all the talk about how "the government is gonna take your money" and how you need to get them (the politicians and everyone representing the federal government) out of your life. And how you need to prepare yourself and form a one-man militia for when they're gonna come and take your freedoms away. Those kind of views are present even here on VB.

This anti-government sentiment is so strong that even mainstream politicians themselves use it -- and they succeed in using it, so much so that people who view themselves as distrustful of governmental power still vote in the same type of power-hungry opportunistic politicians again and again. Curiously, this anti-government paranoia also seems to be inconsistently coupled with strong patriotism (and here is the difference between right and left in anti-government views).

It seems like these extreme and sentimental forms a distrust of government can take -- which go way beyond a healthy mistrust of authority -- are the dark side of how much individuals and individual freedoms are emphasized in American culture, and/or how so many issues get politicized through the dichotomy of the individual vs. the government.

soilman 01-09-2011 08:13 AM

Poor taste to... or follow the hit list with an invitation to shoot a fully automatic m16, without bothering to put a period at the end of the previous sentence.

soilman 01-09-2011 08:21 AM

Jeez Louise, simply listing Mein Kampf among a list of "favorite books" you have read, is not an indication of anything. This is the US. We are allowed to read anything we want, and shouldn't be criticized because we read something that is politically unpopular. It does not indicate, one way or another, anything about the man being balanced or unbalanced. It just means he is relatively well-read.

Parsnip 01-09-2011 08:27 AM

This is what happens when people start labeling their political opponents and neighbors as "the enemy". I posted months ago that people are playing with fire and it's going to come back to bite them.

julz 01-09-2011 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

the name havocjohn short for Havoc and John...... but anyone that has been around for a little while would have known that, the ignorance of some is apparent.

Yikes...I did not know that!

Havoc is so handsome.

Kenickie 01-09-2011 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post

Havoc is so handsome.

RIP Havoc

person of interest sought by Pima county



looks like every other 50 year old desert rat i've seen

julz 01-09-2011 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

RIP Havoc

I did not know that either. My apologies if I was insensitive.

Scorpius 01-09-2011 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

That's good, after the fact, but in general, it's just in poor taste to put a gun sight target on people.

Poor taste? How about Poor intelligence? That woman is an idiot, plain and simple.

Hopefully this tragedy will keep her out of any future elected political positions.

Kenickie 01-09-2011 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post

I did not know that either. My apologies if I was insensitive.

actually, maybe i should apologize, perhaps he hasn't mentioned it on the boards yet, i didn't mean to invade john's privacy if i did.

havocjohn 01-09-2011 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post

Poor taste? How about Poor intelligence? That woman is an idiot, plain and simple.

Hopefully this tragedy will keep her out of any future elected political positions.

interesting, so it is in poor intelligence when Palin does it, but you seem to have no problem with it when as Red demonstrated earlier in this thread it was done by Democrats.

Why do you find it acceptable and not considered in poor intelligence when it is done by a Democratic party/canidate?

havocjohn 01-09-2011 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post

I did not know that either. My apologies if I was insensitive.

You have nothing to apologize for, Havoc was a handsome dog.

You weren't insensitive (IMO), you expressed an opinion I have held for almost 13 yrs. His death doesn't change that he was handsome, your not knowing either what my screen name stood for or about his death doesn't make your observations wrong or insensitive; he was a great dog who's time had come.

Attachment 14171
LL

havocjohn 01-09-2011 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

actually, maybe i should apologize, perhaps he hasn't mentioned it on the boards yet, i didn't mean to invade john's privacy if i did.

nothing to apologize for, I did post about his passing on the boards back when it happened.... it's kool.

Scorpius 01-09-2011 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

interesting, so it is in poor intelligence when Palin does it, but you seem to have no problem with it when as Red demonstrated earlier in this thread it was done by Democrats.

Why do you find it acceptable and not considered in poor intelligence when it is done by a Democratic party/canidate?

That's not the only unintelligent move she has made. But it is true that news outlets did highlight that her 'target' campaign when reporting this story, which is somewhat relevant seeing it WAS a shooting and people DID die.

Either way, Palin was not the one responsible for the shooting. Though it was most likely an individual who aligned himself with her party.

dormouse 01-09-2011 02:09 PM

From what I've read from legitimate news sources, the motivations of the attack are not yet clear. Luckily, the shooter did not off himself in the process, so I'm sure we'll learn lots more about him in the near future. However, since the target was a Congresswoman, it's sensible to think that politics is probably involved. Violence has no place in our political process.

I am very sad for all of the victims and their families. Hopefully the shooter and his alleged accomplice will spend the rest of their miserable lives in prison.


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