Marijuana Legalization - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-12-2010, 06:01 AM
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Ok, we just lost on Prop 19 which would have legalized recreational use of marijuana in California. We are still very hopeful for full legalization within the next 2 years in California and our neighboring states (Colorado and Oregon are already drafting legalization measures...). What is the best about our efforts with Prop 19 is that we were able to open up and come out and talk about marijuana in a public sphere. Despite all of the rampant lies generated recently, there were many open, honest conversations that have needed to happen for years. We opened the doors and started the momentum toward federal legalization in the US.

I think it is important to realize the reasons marijuana was made illegal in the USA in the first place. http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/...juana-illegal/

Also the prevalence of "Reefer Madness" that showed up in full force during the California campaign against 19, (lies that marijuana is a gateway drug, people will be allowed to be "high" at work, and that marijuana causes cancer...)

What is your opinion about marijuana and legalization of recreational use?
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#2 Old 11-12-2010, 06:15 AM
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I'll let Bill Hicks speak for me on this:

(NSFW for language)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZqYV9KKOZQ

I just have one of those faces. People come up to me and say, "What's wrong?" Nothing. "Well, it takes more energy to frown than it does to smile." Yeah, you know it takes more energy to point that out than it does to leave me alone? -Bill Hicks
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#3 Old 11-12-2010, 06:16 AM
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I don't smoke weed anymore, and have absolutely zero desire to. I don't have a problem with people smoking if they want to. (Or ingesting, vaporizing, whatever they want to do to get high.) I think it should be like alcohol - legal, age-restricted, taxed, but not legal in many situations such as driving or, you know, performing open heart surgery.

The only concern I have is that, unlike alcohol, cops can't test quickly to see if someone is currently under the influence. (I'm not living under a rock, am I? We don't have a weed version of a breathalyzer, right?)
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#4 Old 11-12-2010, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Semicharmed View Post

The only concern I have is that, unlike alcohol, cops can't test quickly to see if someone is currently under the influence. (I'm not living under a rock, am I? We don't have a weed version of a breathalyzer, right?)


You don't have to blow over 0.8 to be arrested for the broader "driving while impaired." As such, it's already illegal to drive under the influence of cannabis.

I just have one of those faces. People come up to me and say, "What's wrong?" Nothing. "Well, it takes more energy to frown than it does to smile." Yeah, you know it takes more energy to point that out than it does to leave me alone? -Bill Hicks
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#5 Old 11-12-2010, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

lies that...people will be allowed to be "high" at work...



What is it within Prop 19 or the existing California laws that prevent people from smoking marijuana at the work place and if I'm an employee of a certain company, who can I report to (ex: CAL/OSHA for tobacco) if I found out my employer is not in compliance with the law?

As somebody has been so invested in the campaign for so long (yes, I checked out your previous threads in the the heap before), this should be a very easy answer for you.
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#6 Old 11-12-2010, 07:26 AM
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You don't have to blow over 0.8 to be arrested for the broader "driving while impaired." As such, it's already illegal to drive under the influence of cannabis.

No, no, I understand that. (Though, thankfully, with alcohol it's 0.08, not 0.8! Heh...) I just wonder how well "the cop said I was drunk" stands up in court versus "blew twice the legal limit." I am not familiar enough with legal proceedings to know, so that's why I said I was concerned. If we can't test, how can we prove in the case of wrongdoing? The CSI-effect has twisted juries as is, I can't imagine they'll be more forgiving if it's proving drug or alcohol use instead of DNA evidence.

And, while I may be wrong, I was under the impression a few states (at least) don't cover marijuana under their driving while impaired laws. Idaho comes to mind. I thought since weed wasn't alcohol or a narcotic (both of which are illegal to use while driving if they impair you), then legally you can drive while stoned. I could be totally off on that. I dunno. Not that it matters, since I imagine if weed were legalized, many other laws would have to be altered, including driving while impaired ones.
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#7 Old 11-12-2010, 08:01 AM
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No, no, I understand that. (Though, thankfully, with alcohol it's 0.08, not 0.8! Heh...)


I had a feeling I was off on the decimal point. Forgive me, I'm blowing about 0.06 atm.

I just have one of those faces. People come up to me and say, "What's wrong?" Nothing. "Well, it takes more energy to frown than it does to smile." Yeah, you know it takes more energy to point that out than it does to leave me alone? -Bill Hicks
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#8 Old 11-12-2010, 10:43 AM
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What is it within Prop 19 or the existing California laws that prevent people from smoking marijuana at the work place and if I'm an employee of a certain company, who can I report to (ex: CAL/OSHA for tobacco) if I found out my employer is not in compliance with the law?

.

It doesnt have anything to do with California law, it is up to individual employers and companies to determine whether or not they allow people to work under the influence of marijuana or not. Currently with our medical marijuana laws in CA even if you have medical need to ingest marijuana it is still up to the employer to decide if they allow you to work or not. Prop 19 did not include anything to change this, just the same as 215.

The most prevalent lie spread during the campaign was the bus drivers would be 'high' while driving kids to school. that is a scare tactic if I've ever heard one, and not based on the truth whatsoever aka Reefer Madness. Most school districts have VERY strict policies for bus drivers regarding drug and alcohol use. Prop 19 (just like 215) could not have changed these policies whatsoever.

As for smoking marijuana at work, if seconhand smoke was a real problem for an employee in a company that did not have policies against it the employee could appeal to the company to change the policies, or seek legal action to have the company change the policies or find another job. This would have to be in very specific cases where the work was not in a public space, because both prop 19 and 215 do not allow for smoking in public places.
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#9 Old 11-12-2010, 10:50 AM
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I smoked pot for over 30 years. Other than the first year, I smoked it at least 3 or 4 times every single day. Many days I spent more time smoking than not smoking. I smoked pot when it was a felony to possess any amount. I've seen the best and the worst weed on the planet. I've bought it, sold it, grown it, and spent time in jail because of it. I spent a small fortune buying it. I've bought it from kids, grandmothers, cops, and some very serious criminals. I've bought it at the barrel of a gun.

The first pot I ever saw was in a little matchbox and for some reason ants were crawling in it so I thought all pot had ants in it. The last pot I ever saw, hell I don't even remember. It was just another day I guess.

And though I used to dream of the day pot was made legal, I'm not sure if I even care anymore. I know I don't care if the reason is so people can smoke more of it. I do care though about the violence and the jail time so in that light, I guess I'm still for legalization. But I'm not for smoking pot.
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#10 Old 11-12-2010, 10:57 AM
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The only concern I have is that, unlike alcohol, cops can't test quickly to see if someone is currently under the influence. (I'm not living under a rock, am I? We don't have a weed version of a breathalyzer, right?)

I've talk to some cops and other law enforcement people that supported prop 19 and legalization recently about driving, testing and impairment. People drive under the influence of lots more than just alcohol or marijuana, the cops have ways to tell if peole are fit to drive or not (that eyeball finger following test), think of all of the people that abuse pain medications, meth, cocaine etc, there is not a test like the breathalizer for these drugs, its up to the cop to determine impairment based on their own judgement. They also said that they don't worry much about impairment from people that ingest marijuana and it sometimes even makes people more cautious on the roads...
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#11 Old 11-12-2010, 11:03 AM
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And though I used to dream of the day pot was made legal, I'm not sure if I even care anymore. I know I don't care if the reason is so people can smoke more of it. I do care though about the violence and the jail time so in that light, I guess I'm still for legalization. But I'm not for smoking pot.

Everyone has their own stories
What is important to remember when thinking about reasons for legalization are the reasons it was made illegal in the first place. If you don't know already about Anslinger, paper compeptition, black/mexican racist associations, scare tactics, fear mongering and gov't greed....these reasons alone are enough to want legalization of a harmless plant.
Imagine if legalization would have happend 30 years ago when we first voted on Prop 19 in CA, you wouldn't have had to been involved in all that violence and trouble....
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#12 Old 11-12-2010, 03:15 PM
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I smoked pot for over 30 years. Other than the first year, I smoked it at least 3 or 4 times every single day. Many days I spent more time smoking than not smoking. I smoked pot when it was a felony to possess any amount. I've seen the best and the worst weed on the planet. I've bought it, sold it, grown it, and spent time in jail because of it. I spent a small fortune buying it. I've bought it from kids, grandmothers, cops, and some very serious criminals. I've bought it at the barrel of a gun.

The first pot I ever saw was in a little matchbox and for some reason ants were crawling in it so I thought all pot had ants in it. The last pot I ever saw, hell I don't even remember. It was just another day I guess.

And though I used to dream of the day pot was made legal, I'm not sure if I even care anymore. I know I don't care if the reason is so people can smoke more of it. I do care though about the violence and the jail time so in that light, I guess I'm still for legalization. But I'm not for smoking pot.

I smoked pot already as a fetus, constantly. An entire medical staff had to spend days trying to figure out how to see me on the sonogram because I was so badly covered in a cloud of smoke that they couldn't distinguish any of my features.

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#13 Old 11-12-2010, 06:07 PM
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Good thread!


FREE THE WEED!

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#14 Old 11-12-2010, 06:59 PM
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It doesnt have anything to do with California law, it is up to individual employers and companies to determine whether or not they allow people to work under the influence of marijuana or not. Currently with our medical marijuana laws in CA even if you have medical need to ingest marijuana it is still up to the employer to decide if they allow you to work or not. Prop 19 did not include anything to change this, just the same as 215.

So it would not be so inappropriate or a "lie" to say that "people will be allowed to be 'high' at work" if an employer chooses not to make any policies (Perhaps he and his favorites like to have a smoke all the time themselves) against the use of marijuana once Prop 19 is passed since California laws do not have any protecting people from work place.


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As for smoking marijuana at work, if seconhand smoke was a real problem for an employee in a company that did not have policies against it the employee could appeal to the company to change the policies, or seek legal action to have the company change the policies or find another job.

So let me get this straight, if a company does not have policies against marijuana use at work and this happens to be a very small business where the boss likes to smoke marijuana himself, the burden should be upon the innocent affected party who does not want to be exposed to second hand smoke(out of fear of developing schizophrenia, aggravating their bronchitis, etc)

1. to risk reprisals
2. to incur the cost and time of hiring a lawyer and seeking legal actions
or
3. to seek another job and if there are no other jobs, go on unemployment or suck it up.

And precisely why should any potential affected parties who don't use marijuana themselves should go through the troubles making something available for recreational use for others and accept such a burden upon themselves? The cost of voting no is free and less than two seconds and you were probably going to mail in your ballot or visit the voting booth anyway. Also, it couldn't possibly be that much trouble to provide some sort of protection for people in Prop 19 or the next initiative unless the Secretary of State charges you 50k per word on every initiative.

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This would have to be in very specific cases where the work was not in a public space, because both prop 19 and 215 do not allow for smoking in public places.

Majority of workplaces in California are NOT public places.


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#15 Old 11-12-2010, 07:35 PM
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Legalize it as well as all other drugs.

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#16 Old 11-12-2010, 11:33 PM
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I have never smoked pot in my life but I don't see a good reason not to legalize it. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it, reap the benefits.
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#17 Old 11-13-2010, 07:12 AM
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Majority of workplaces in California are NOT public places.

This is simply not true, tons of jobs are in public space, think of all the retail workers, restaurant servers, mall workers, bus drivers (hint hint)....

thanks for responding to the reasons why marijuana was made illegal in the first place, you are really good at dodging the MAIN issue here!
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#18 Old 11-13-2010, 08:52 AM
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This is simply not true, tons of jobs are in public space, think of all the retail workers, restaurant servers, mall workers, bus drivers (hint hint)....

As pointed out by the California Chamber of Commerce, retail stores like grocery stores are not public places according to the California court system. You could read about the details here. Also, if you actually read the California laws regarding the appropriate and inappropriate public and private places for the use of substances such as alcohol and tobacco, many of them are very careful in defining the specific areas (e.g. restaurants, bars, etc) to leave little room for misinterpretation, which prop 19 failed to do.

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thanks for responding to the reasons why marijuana was made illegal in the first place, you are really good at dodging the MAIN issue here!

You're doing that bait and switch thing every time your silly claims fail to hold up again just like you did in the California 2010 election thread. I find it hilarious that one day after you've decided that you're "finished discussing this with" me, you decided that you wanted to piggyback ride on the arguments of others just to feel like you're on the winning side of the debate.

Sorry, babe. I'm not obligated to dance when you tell me to dance or chase after some other phantom reason of why marijuana should be made illegal or legal only to have you telling me that that's not the "real" reason is... Nor am I obligated to justify every reason why other people want marijuana to be illegal.
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#19 Old 11-13-2010, 01:43 PM
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I don't know all that much on the subject and I have no interest in smoking pot. I do live in California.

A few years ago there was a program on TV about what pot growing has done to Humboldt County and it wasn't very good. Steep increase in property prices and the smell of the plants. I don't know if the show was biased or not. I looked into moving to Eureka when I moved back to California and I'm so glad I didn't.

I think people should be able to grow a few plants if they want in their yard. I don't know if a plant on someone's patio on an apartment balcony would be noticeable to others. (I don't know how strongly the growing plants smell. I have heard they do have an odor) My apartment complex is non smoking. I wouldn't want someone chroncially smoking pot in the apartment next to me. I've had cigarette smoking neighbors before and it does come through the walls.
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#20 Old 11-14-2010, 06:14 AM
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You're doing that bait and switch thing every time your silly claims fail to hold up again just like you did in the California 2010 election thread. I find it hilarious that one day after you've decided that you're "finished discussing this with" me, you decided that you wanted to piggyback ride on the arguments of others just to feel like you're on the winning side of the debate.

Sorry, babe. I'm not obligated to dance when you tell me to dance or chase after some other phantom reason of why marijuana should be made illegal or legal only to have you telling me that that's not the "real" reason is... Nor am I obligated to justify every reason why other people want marijuana to be illegal.

Just address the reasons why it was made illegal in the first place that's all im asking. stop trying to pull in these tiny details that are total speculation BTW about possible problems (made up by the Times... not based on truth!) with prop 19 and legalization in general and look at the BIG PICTURE please. if you are still failing to see it i will point it out again, why should we uphold a law that was created for such horrible reasons?


prop 19 clearly defined public space vs private space as well as leaving room for businesses to obtain permits to allow marijuana use. you are creating fear out of nothing, aka reefer madness.
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#21 Old 11-14-2010, 06:19 AM
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A few years ago there was a program on TV about what pot growing has done to Humboldt County and it wasn't very good. Steep increase in property prices and the smell of the plants. I don't know if the show was biased or not. I looked into moving to Eureka when I moved back to California and I'm so glad I didn't.

I think people should be able to grow a few plants if they want in their yard. I don't know if a plant on someone's patio on an apartment balcony would be noticeable to others. (I don't know how strongly the growing plants smell. I have heard they do have an odor) My apartment complex is non smoking. I wouldn't want someone chroncially smoking pot in the apartment next to me. I've had cigarette smoking neighbors before and it does come through the walls.

You might already have someone that smokes a lot of marijuana next to you and not even know it. With medical mj laws many people are already allowed to grow plants and smoke bud at home legally, so if you are worried about these 2 reasons no need to because it is already legal and people are probably around you smoking and growing plants right now...

As for the problems with Humboldt, this is purely because of prohibition. If recreational use was legal and sales were regulated the mess in humboldt and mendocino counties would not exist because the growers up there would be able to grow and sell legally.

What is important to realize is the reasons marijuana was made illegal, the link in my original post has information about this if you already havne't looked at it you really should
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#22 Old 11-14-2010, 06:21 AM
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Everybody should read The Emperor Wears No Clothes.

I just have one of those faces. People come up to me and say, "What's wrong?" Nothing. "Well, it takes more energy to frown than it does to smile." Yeah, you know it takes more energy to point that out than it does to leave me alone? -Bill Hicks
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#23 Old 11-14-2010, 07:45 AM
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I used to hold pot-smoking habits against everyone who did it, but I've grown up since then. I was also brainwashed into thinking it was some evil, harmful thing that turned people into crackhead zombies. Heh.

I am straight edge and I don't find anything about smoking pot remotely appealing.

However, my opinion on the issue is: Legalize it!


That's pretty much how I feel about it. I don't smoke it, never have, probably never will, but I think it should be legalized (and regulated and taxed).
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#24 Old 11-14-2010, 10:41 AM
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Just address the reasons why it was made illegal in the first place that's all im asking. stop trying to pull in these tiny details that are total speculation BTW about possible problems (made up by the Times... not based on truth!) with prop 19 and legalization in general and look at the BIG PICTURE please. if you are still failing to see it i will point it out again, why should we uphold a law that was created for such horrible reasons?

For me to address the reasons why it was made illegal in the first place, I would have to believe in the reasons myself. But as I've already explained to you in that other thread, my reason opposing Prop 19 was that it failed to provide adequate protections for other people (one of whom being myself), many of which do have legitimate reasons to not want to breath second smoke. People come together support legislation all the time for varieties of reasons. And as I've said before, I got the idea from the California Chamber of Commerce, not the evil doers at LA Times. Maybe if you cut down on the dope, you'll understand it a little better.


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prop 19 clearly defined public space vs private space as well as leaving room for businesses to obtain permits to allow marijuana use. you are creating fear out of nothing, aka reefer madness.

LOL. First you said that retail stores were parts of these "public spaces" which is a vernacular and liberal interpretation of the use of "public spaces" and after I've provided you with an example where retail stores (actually even private sidewalk close to the entrance to the store) were private places, you fall back to the same rubbish from post #8?


Discussing this with you is like riding on a carousel.
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#25 Old 11-14-2010, 11:20 AM
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BTW, I don't understand why are you unreceptive on any criticism (however small) on Prop 19, which failed and is a thing of the past already. The way you've been defending it is almost like your late grandmother fashioned it on her deathbed herself right before she kicked the bucket. Just add protections in future initiatives, then the evildoers at the LA Times/CALChamber/Me (all of which are one and the same to you I'm sure) will have one less thing to gripe about.
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#26 Old 11-15-2010, 06:54 AM
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For me to address the reasons why it was made illegal in the first place, I would have to believe in the reasons myself. But as I've already explained to you in that other thread, my reason opposing Prop 19 was that it failed to provide adequate protections for other people (one of whom being myself), many of which do have legitimate reasons to not want to breath second smoke. People come together support legislation all the time for varieties of reasons. And as I've said before, I got the idea from the California Chamber of Commerce, not the evil doers at LA Times. Maybe if you cut down on the dope, you'll understand it a little better.


:[/URL]

Discussing this with you is like riding on a carousel.

right because you keep dancing around the REAL issue, which is repealing prohibition that NEVER should have happened. you failed again to address why we should keep prohibition when it was started out of racism and greed. I am not referring to the specifications of prop 19 as you keep replying with I am referring to the legislation that began in the 1930's against marijuana that started prohibition in the first place.
Why should we keep this law when it was created for such bad reasons?
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#27 Old 11-15-2010, 07:00 AM
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BTW, I don't understand why are you unreceptive on any criticism (however small) on Prop 19, which failed and is a thing of the past already. The way you've been defending it is almost like your late grandmother fashioned it on her deathbed herself right before she kicked the bucket. Just add protections in future initiatives, then the evildoers at the LA Times/CALChamber/Me (all of which are one and the same to you I'm sure) will have one less thing to gripe about.

This thread is not specifically about Prop 19, its about marijuana legalization in general and the reasons why not or why we should keep prohibition of this plant.
The criticism against Prop 19 is laughable and it is sad that you fell for the propaganda against 19, I was simply trying to point out the flaws in the arguments against prohibition, because anyone that voted against 19 voted FOR prohibition. I am just curious as to what it was in prop 19 that was so much worse than the original prohibition laws in the first place (that happened in the 1930's), and why anyone would support these laws is very confusing to me?
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#28 Old 11-15-2010, 10:51 AM
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right because you keep dancing around the REAL issue, which is repealing prohibition that NEVER should have happened. you failed again to address why we should keep prohibition when it was started out of racism and greed. I am not referring to the specifications of prop 19 as you keep replying with I am referring to the legislation that began in the 1930's against marijuana that started prohibition in the first place.
Why should we keep this law when it was created for such bad reasons?

If you honestly want to know what my personal opinion is on the legalization of marijuana for recreational use, then perhaps that the fact that I've stated twice that I would have left the ballot blank on prop 19 (let's hope the third time makes it stick) and my comment about people not finding the prop so disagree had they included some sort of provision to protect others should have been clues to you. But if you're going to act like that I'm personally against the legalization of marijuana for recreational use because 1. you're dishonest, you don't know how to accept the defeat of the prop graciously and now looking to hold something like a kangaroo court against the opponents of the prop or 2. you're really having a hard time grasping the notion that there is a space in between complete support or opposition, then let me make it clear for you. My personal stance on the legalization of marijuana for recreational use is one of disapproving neutrality. I don't see it as a worthy past time and the fact that we're going to make it legally accept would increase the probability that some a-hole bothering me and other people with his/her pot use unless we have sufficient protections in place. I'm sure that people have the right to build mortuaries and burn human flesh wherever they like but I don't have to support them building it next to my place. Similiar concept here.

And as I've told you before, I don't give a sh!t about the original intent of the ban being racist, greedy (if you think that people like Richard Lee and MJ growers aren't going to stand to profit from this and they're going to plant little communial plots with free MJ for all [psst, it's not allowed under prop 19], you're kidding yourself. I have no problem with greed as I'm pretty greedy myself. It's why I work.) or any other silly charges you wish to heap on the opponents of legalization. Reasons for why people support certain laws and organizations evolve all the time. What might be the case back then doesn't necessarily means it is the case now or that current reasons why people support the ban on recreational use is not in line with why people banned marijuana in majority of the industralized countries (and before you're going to get funny ideas, I'm not arguing that if they do it, we should automatically follow them) where the history you brought up doesn't apply.
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#29 Old 11-15-2010, 10:57 AM
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The criticism against Prop 19 is laughable and it is sad that you fell for the propaganda against 19, I was simply trying to point out the flaws in the arguments against prohibition, because anyone that voted against 19 voted FOR prohibition. I am just curious as to what it was in prop 19 that was so much worse than the original prohibition laws in the first place (that happened in the 1930's), and why anyone would support these laws is very confusing to me?

Get a freakin' clue. Prop 19 isn't as simple as freeing pot for recreational use. You yourself had failed to provide support as to why your opponents' positions are lies (which is extremely ridiculous considering that I'm not even a very strong or a long time opponent of the prop) and had to rely on silly tactics to create the illusion that you actually have something substantial to say other than the usual bleats of "lies, inspeculations and reefer madness".
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#30 Old 11-16-2010, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Malcontent View Post

And as I've told you before, I don't give a sh!t about the original intent of the ban being racist, greedy (if you think that people like Richard Lee and MJ growers aren't going to stand to profit from this and they're going to plant little communial plots with free MJ for all [psst, it's not allowed under prop 19], you're kidding yourself. I have no problem with greed as I'm pretty greedy myself. It's why I work.) or any other silly charges you wish to heap on the opponents of legalization. Reasons for why people support certain laws and organizations evolve all the time. What might be the case back then doesn't necessarily means it is the case now or that current reasons why people support the ban on recreational use is not in line with why people banned marijuana in majority of the industralized countries (and before you're going to get funny ideas, I'm not arguing that if they do it, we should automatically follow them) where the history you brought up doesn't apply.

You obviously don't know your history here. learn please.
luvourmother is offline  
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