Stimulus spending at it's best! - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-08-2010, 08:35 PM
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The federal gov't doing it's best to help with the hard census questions:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/3517871...57623630650909





and from the mouths of those census workers:



http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/02...e-confessions/
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#2 Old 04-09-2010, 02:22 AM
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Back in the 1930s the US gov't paid people to paint murals, clean parks, and other very light duties as a way to simulate the economy. I see no difference in hiring extra workers for the Census in the same spirit of economic stimulation. This money goes right down to ordinary people instead of giving bailouts to banks.



There should be more 'make work' programs like this, not less, in order to get the economy moving again at multiple tiers.
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#3 Old 04-09-2010, 05:01 AM
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Back in the 1930s the US gov't paid people to paint murals, clean parks, and other very light duties as a way to simulate the economy.



We should do that today and call it welfare.

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#4 Old 04-09-2010, 05:06 AM
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We should do that today and call it welfare.



I agree. In the UK they've started a scheme whereby long term welfare recipients are made to go to college or get other training or do volunteer-type work in order to keep receiving payments. The idea is to get long term recipients back into the mould of a work/study life and get them trained up to join the modern workforce.



However, this programme costs money to run. The government is investing tax revenue into this scheme hoping that it will reduce long term welfare recipent numbers. Is the US ready to invest more money into social services?
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#5 Old 04-09-2010, 09:37 AM
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I've seen this behavior (of purposely not trying to be efficient and cost effective) from department managers in various for-profit companies I've worked for.



Their rationale was that if they "came in under budget" this year, their budget would be cut the following year. By meeting or slightly exceeding the budget, it gave them reasons/justification to request the same or a higher budget the next year.



It was always amusing to see "mysteriously" above-average spending during the last few months of the year.

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#6 Old 04-09-2010, 12:00 PM
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My library is one of the sites for census assistance. People laugh, but there really is a need. Yes, there are people out there who cannot read and write. There are people who have severe mental disorders. I have assisted adult patrons who do not know their address or phone number and are completely baffled as to how to fill out a form and mail a letter.



And an increasing number of them are on their own as mental health services are cut.

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#7 Old 04-09-2010, 05:50 PM
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The only thing that bailed out the economy for FDR was WWII.
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#8 Old 04-09-2010, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Back in the 1930s the US gov't paid people to paint murals, clean parks, and other very light duties as a way to simulate the economy. I see no difference in hiring extra workers for the Census in the same spirit of economic stimulation. This money goes right down to ordinary people instead of giving bailouts to banks.



There should be more 'make work' programs like this, not less, in order to get the economy moving again at multiple tiers.



The only thing that bailed out the economy for FDR was WWII.
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#9 Old 04-09-2010, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by peace View Post

My library is one of the sites for census assistance. People laugh, but there really is a need. Yes, there are people out there who cannot read and write. There are people who have severe mental disorders. I have assisted adult patrons who do not know their address or phone number and are completely baffled as to how to fill out a form and mail a letter.



And an increasing number of them are on their own as mental health services are cut.



Agreed.



Some people live in their own little bubbles of preconceived notions.
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#10 Old 04-09-2010, 07:56 PM
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The only thing that bailed out the economy for FDR was WWII.



So it's time to start WWIII?
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#11 Old 04-09-2010, 08:30 PM
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So it's time to start WWIII?



Yup. Time to drop the bomb. Where is it that the Republicans are having their big get together?
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#12 Old 04-09-2010, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Back in the 1930s the US gov't paid people to paint murals, clean parks, and other very light duties as a way to simulate the economy. I see no difference in hiring extra workers for the Census in the same spirit of economic stimulation. This money goes right down to ordinary people instead of giving bailouts to banks.



There should be more 'make work' programs like this, not less, in order to get the economy moving again at multiple tiers.



This only makes sense if paying people in order to engage in "busy work" is the most efficient use of our money.



Some would say that other areas should be funded first, or *gasp* the tax rate should be lowered, leaving people with more money in the first place.
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#13 Old 04-09-2010, 09:21 PM
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Some would say that other areas should be funded first, or *gasp* the tax rate should be lowered, leaving people with more money in the first place.



So you're advocatig reducing/eliminating FICA, sales tax, etc., for the roughly half of the population who don't make enough to have to pay federal income tax?
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#14 Old 04-09-2010, 10:18 PM
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Sales tax would be a regressive tax. It unfairly burdens the most poor.



If it could be lowered or offset through a tax refund, I'd consider that a gooder thing.



YMMV.
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#15 Old 04-09-2010, 10:24 PM
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Sales tax would be a regressive tax. It unfairly burdens the most poor.



If it could be lowered or offset through a tax refund, I'd consider that a gooder thing.







I agree.
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#16 Old 04-10-2010, 03:32 PM
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Sales tax would be a regressive tax. It unfairly burdens the most poor.



If it could be lowered or offset through a tax refund, I'd consider that a gooder thing.



YMMV.





this is already being done. the regressive taxes are compensated for with no federal tax for about half the u.s. households.
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#17 Old 04-10-2010, 03:35 PM
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complaining about inefficiency of these programs (as though there wasn't literally TONS of wasteful spending by the bush admin) is like saying because scientists have made mistakes, it proves the world is 6,000 years old.
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#18 Old 04-10-2010, 04:50 PM
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The stimulus bill--$787 billion as a package, included approximately $457 billion for aid to the states for their unemployment insurance programs, medicaid and food stamp programs at a time of severe recession and accelerating unemployment and dropping tax revenues that were bankrupting both many people and the states quickly. In addition there were funds for hiring first responders and teachers and funds for infrastructure projects and other job creation programs. The balance was $330 billion in tax cuts, largely for businesses in the form of things like accelerated depreciation schedules for capital equipment to try to get manufacturing a boost. Yeah, what a waste?



To pick out a few that seem funny to you is pretty idiotic, but what can one expect if one reads geniuses like Maliken and take her seriously? That the multiplier effect of putting money in people's hands that they actually spend is greater than that of tax cuts is almost universally accepted maxim of economics.



Econometric models have proven the stimulus to have boosted GDP significantly and reduced unemployment from what would have been expected had the legislation not been passed. The only problem with the stimulus according to many economists is that it should have been larger.



Once again John you fail to see the forest for the trees.
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#19 Old 04-10-2010, 07:44 PM
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The stimulus bill--$787 billion as a package, included approximately $457 billion for aid to the states for their unemployment insurance programs, medicaid and food stamp programs at a time of severe recession and accelerating unemployment and dropping tax revenues that were bankrupting both many people and the states quickly. In addition there were funds for hiring first responders and teachers and funds for infrastructure projects and other job creation programs. The balance was $330 billion in tax cuts, largely for businesses in the form of things like accelerated depreciation schedules for capital equipment to try to get manufacturing a boost. Yeah, what a waste?



To pick out a few that seem funny to you is pretty idiotic, but what can one expect if one reads geniuses like Maliken and take her seriously? That the multiplier effect of putting money in people's hands that they actually spend is greater than that of tax cuts is almost universally accepted maxim of economics.



Econometric models have proven the stimulus to have boosted GDP significantly and reduced unemployment from what would have been expected had the legislation not been passed. The only problem with the stimulus according to many economists is that it should have been larger.



Once again John you fail to see the forest for the trees.



States are going broke:



http://www.propublica.org/feature/ka...urance-debtors
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#20 Old 04-10-2010, 07:55 PM
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Lots of States are going broke, having to borrow from the Fed to pay unemployment insurance.

http://www.propublica.org/feature/ka...urance-debtors
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#21 Old 04-11-2010, 05:53 PM
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Which is one of the reasons that the stimulus was just too small.
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#22 Old 04-11-2010, 06:36 PM
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Which is one of the reasons that the stimulus was just too small.



A perfectly clear rational.
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#23 Old 04-12-2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Back in the 1930s the US gov't paid people to paint murals, clean parks, and other very light duties as a way to simulate the economy. I see no difference in hiring extra workers for the Census in the same spirit of economic stimulation. This money goes right down to ordinary people instead of giving bailouts to banks.



There should be more 'make work' programs like this, not less, in order to get the economy moving again at multiple tiers.



Yes, because we all know how well the "New Deal" worked in dragging out the depression in the 30's, if not for ww2 it's hard to say how long the depression would have lasted.
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#24 Old 04-12-2010, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Savannah View Post

The stimulus bill--$787 billion as a package, included approximately $457 billion for aid to the states for their unemployment insurance programs, medicaid and food stamp programs at a time of severe recession and accelerating unemployment and dropping tax revenues that were bankrupting both many people and the states quickly. In addition there were funds for hiring first responders and teachers and funds for infrastructure projects and other job creation programs. The balance was $330 billion in tax cuts, largely for businesses in the form of things like accelerated depreciation schedules for capital equipment to try to get manufacturing a boost. Yeah, what a waste?



To pick out a few that seem funny to you is pretty idiotic, but what can one expect if one reads geniuses like Maliken and take her seriously? That the multiplier effect of putting money in people's hands that they actually spend is greater than that of tax cuts is almost universally accepted maxim of economics.



Econometric models have proven the stimulus to have boosted GDP significantly and reduced unemployment from what would have been expected had the legislation not been passed. The only problem with the stimulus according to many economists is that it should have been larger.



Once again John you fail to see the forest for the trees.



Actually no, I see the forest for the trees just fine, but then again I haven't been drinking the progressive kool aid.... but you keep believing that speil.
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#25 Old 04-12-2010, 03:35 PM
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Yes, because we all know how well the "New Deal" worked in dragging out the depression in the 30's, if not for ww2 it's hard to say how long the depression would have lasted.



We all know that eh? Oh please, show us the definitive work that made us all know that?
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#26 Old 04-12-2010, 03:39 PM
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We all know that eh? Oh please, show us the definitive work that made us all know that?



Let me rephrase that, the people that actually read and understand history know that the New Deal dragged the Depression on for yrs in this nation, and in 1941 unemployment was at 11% after 8yrs of New Deal spending, if not for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor and most of our men joining of being drafted into the military and our women going to work in the factories building war material the depression would have dragged on for who knows exactly how long.
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#27 Old 04-13-2010, 08:02 PM
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Your tax dollar.



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