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-   -   Nearly half of all US households pay no Federal tax (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/17-compost-heap/112036-nearly-half-all-us-households-pay-no-federal-tax.html)

MrFalafel 04-08-2010 06:50 AM

Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.



About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.



Most people still are required to file returns by the April 15 deadline. The penalty for skipping it is limited to the amount of taxes owed, but it's still almost always better to file: That's the only way to get a refund of all the income taxes withheld by employers.



In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100407/...ge/us_no_taxes



Why are so many people upset about taxes when half of the nation pays none?

Beancounter 04-08-2010 07:46 AM

True, but many people still pay property taxes, sales taxes, state income taxes, excise taxes and various other taxes that are called "fees".



Those can add up pretty quickly too.

Red 04-08-2010 07:47 AM

The half that pay them aren't all that happy.

MrFalafel 04-08-2010 07:58 AM

Isn't it a bit worrying that the Federal government considers half of US households are unable to afford to pay Federal tax?

JLRodgers 04-08-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Isn't it a bit worrying that the Federal government considers half of US households are unable to afford to pay Federal tax?



That's what I find bad -- apparently half the US households may be "too poor" for even the government to take money from. I think that in itself goes much further to show how bad things are than "unemployment rates"

papayamon 04-08-2010 12:10 PM

not at all. if you make that little, it's better to have you pay nothing in rather than paying in, and then having to get assistance to live. remember this is just one tax. there are other taxes, like fica, that everyone who

works pays. when you add that in to all the regressive taxes that people pay, then they are still paying 20% or more of their income.



the very wealthy pay a smaller % than is apparent. mucho accounting tricks / writing off travel/entertainment/lifestyle will lower the effective rate. warren buffet has even said that this effective tax rate is much lower than the middle class.

Teresa 04-08-2010 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post

The half that pay them aren't all that happy.



That's the first thing I thought. If almost 1/2 are not paying, then someone has to make up for it. And I'm one of them. I guess people do pay other taxes but what is taken out of my pay check is pretty significant.



That's what I get I guess.

FitChick99 04-08-2010 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa View Post

That's the first thing I thought. If almost 1/2 are not paying, then someone has to make up for it. And I'm one of them. I guess people do pay other taxes but what is taken out of my pay check is pretty significant.



That's what I get I guess.



+1.



I am surprised at the numbers though. Only 1/2? It's disturbing to the people paying the taxes, but yes, also disturbing that so many people cannot afford to pay them.

papayamon 04-08-2010 01:49 PM

i just don't see the issue. this is only one tax.



let's look at effective tax rates. for example, if you make 100k taxable income as a single person, then you are paying around 22,000, or 22%. but for that same taxable figure, assume they tossed 15k in a 401k first, so they really earned 115, the effective tax rate is actually 19%.



i don't see this as an onerous burden. someone making 115k still has 95k after federal income tax. consider that the system allows them to be in a priviledged position to achieve that income level. if you made over 373k, then your effective tax rate is 35%. but someone making that sort of $$ can structure for substantial write-offs.

havocjohn 04-08-2010 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by papayamon View Post

i just don't see the issue. this is only one tax.



let's look at effective tax rates. for example, if you make 100k taxable income as a single person, then you are paying around 22,000, or 22%. but for that same taxable figure, assume they tossed 15k in a 401k first, so they really earned 115, the effective tax rate is actually 19%.



i don't see this as an onerous burden. someone making 115k still has 95k after federal income tax. consider that the system allows them to be in a priviledged position to achieve that income level. if you made over 373k, then your effective tax rate is 35%. but someone making that sort of $$ can structure for substantial write-offs.



so if I am understanding you correctly:



in our resource scarce world you have no problem with someone such as myself who made a choice not to have children and use less resources; paying for others peoples choice to have children and use more resources and make me pay for them to have those children, and you see no problem working my butt of to pay for them or someone else's irresponsible choices..... ROFLMFAO

Kenickie 04-08-2010 02:51 PM

the poor pay their taxes in the cigarette and beer taxes. we keep the states alive!

havocjohn 04-08-2010 02:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

the poor pay their taxes in the cigarette and beer taxes. we keep the states alive!



well if the value added tax gets implemented to cover the costs of the health care program you will be paying federal taxes too.

Semicharmed 04-08-2010 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Why are so many people upset about taxes when half of the nation pays none?



Conveniently, the answer is right in the article:



The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare, and excise taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol and cigarettes. Many also pay state or local taxes on sales, income and property.



That helps explain the country's aversion to taxes, said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert Deloitte Tax. He said many people simply look at the difference between their gross pay and their take-home pay and blame the government for the disparity.

Beancounter 04-08-2010 04:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post


in our resource scarce world you have no problem with someone such as myself who made a choice not to have children and use less resources; paying for others peoples choice to have children and use more resources and make me pay for them to have those children, and you see no problem working my butt of to pay for them or someone elses irresponsible choices..... ROFLMFAO



Yes, because we are producing the next generation of tax payers.



So do your patriotic duty and have children!

Kenickie 04-08-2010 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

well if the value added tax gets implemented to cover the costs of the health care program you will be paying federal taxes too.

In this weeks wilamette, someone asked a question about that. The answer was something like I'd end up paying less than what it costs to buy two bags of crystal meth, a month. Taxes for Healthcare = Keeping The Kids off Meth!

draconian 04-08-2010 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

True, but many people still pay property taxes, sales taxes, state income taxes, excise taxes and various other taxes that are called "fees".



Those can add up pretty quickly too.



The income tax paying people are also paying all of these taxes.

Wolfie 04-08-2010 07:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

so if I am understanding you correctly:



in our resource scarce world you have no problem with someone such as myself who made a choice not to have children and use less resources; paying for others peoples choice to have children and use more resources and make me pay for them to have those children, and you see no problem working my butt of to pay for them or someone else's irresponsible choices..... ROFLMFAO




havocjohn 04-08-2010 07:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

In this weeks wilamette, someone asked a question about that. The answer was something like I'd end up paying less than what it costs to buy two bags of crystal meth, a month. Taxes for Healthcare = Keeping The Kids off Meth!



I don't know what 2 bags of meth sells for, but this is on top of the taxes we already pay. There is no talk of doing away with income tax, or state taxes, it's just one more way of sucking everyone dry..... why work?

havocjohn 04-08-2010 07:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post




well thanks, I believe for the most part though it will fall on deaf ears on this forum, I don't think most here actually pay a whole lot of federal taxes.

Vancityveggie 04-08-2010 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

Yes, because we are producing the next generation of tax payers.



So do your patriotic duty and have children!


otomik 04-09-2010 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFalafel View Post

Why are so many people upset about taxes when half of the nation pays none?

why are so many people upset about women's rights when half of the nation is not women?

MrFalafel 04-09-2010 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLRodgers View Post

That's what I find bad -- apparently half the US households may be "too poor" for even the government to take money from. I think that in itself goes much further to show how bad things are than "unemployment rates"



There goes the myth that the USA is a wealthy country with a high standard of living. The IRS wants money from everyone but half the country is deemed too poor for even the blooducking IRS to touch. That's a real eye opener.

Red 04-09-2010 01:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by papayamon View Post

let's look at effective tax rates. for example, if you make 100k taxable income as a single person, then you are paying around 22,000, or 22%. but for that same taxable figure, assume they tossed 15k in a 401k first, so they really earned 115, the effective tax rate is actually 19%.



No it's not. A 401k is tax deferred, not tax free.

Red 04-09-2010 01:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

the poor pay their taxes in the cigarette and beer taxes. we keep the states alive!



And the stupid tax (aka the lottery).

papayamon 04-09-2010 05:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post

No it's not. A 401k is tax deferred, not tax free.



true, but you're going to take out your 401k when your other earnings are low, not to mention that you get the growth on the pretax investment.

Red 04-09-2010 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by papayamon View Post

true, but you're going to take out your 401k when your other earnings are low, not to mention that you get the growth on the pretax investment.



Which will also be taxed when it's withdrawn. And given the direction things are going, the assumption that the money you set aside will be subject to a lower tax rate upon retirement is getting shakier by the day.

papayamon 04-09-2010 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post

Which will also be taxed when it's withdrawn. And given the direction things are going, the assumption that the money you set aside will be subject to a lower tax rate upon retirement is getting shakier by the day.



then i just suppose it's too bad we don't have that wise republican stewardship. maybe a younger bush will run for presidency. those guys know how to run a government.

Kenickie 04-09-2010 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

I don't know what 2 bags of meth sells for, but this is on top of the taxes we already pay. There is no talk of doing away with income tax, or state taxes, it's just one more way of sucking everyone dry..... why work?



if you're between 100% and 400% of poverty level, (the question was about how fast food workers would make too much money to qualify for extended medicare) your tax for healthcare mangled out to be approx 37.50, less than internet, less than 3 sets of guitar strings, less than two bags of meth, less than an eighth, etc etc. So this is about taxes right...right now I don't pay any but Rainier and Camel Royals tax.

Red 04-09-2010 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by papayamon View Post

then i just suppose it's too bad we don't have that wise republican stewardship. maybe a younger bush will run for presidency.



Unfortunately, the Bush twins can't run until at least 2016.



Quote:
Originally Posted by papayamon View Post

those guys know how to run a government.



Apparently the current administration, at least in part, agrees with you. Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery and all.

Fromper 04-14-2010 11:15 AM

Jon Stewart pointed out some interesting details about this on The Daily Show this week. I love how Comedy Central is the most reliable news source on television.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/201004...lkYWlseXNob3cz



--Fromper



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