"Us against them" (politics) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 01-28-2010, 10:39 AM
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I put it here just in case, but I was wondering: has anyone else heard this on the radio and such?



I was in the car last night I believe, and I believe it was some politician said something like "now we can stand up against them and fight back" (referring the the Republicans stopping the Democrats from doing anything). The host was all for it, others were all for it. One crazy person even said we needed to stop spending money (this was not the crazy part), because the job situation is only propaganda by the liberal media to scare people into spending as there is no unemployment problem as there are more jobs than we could need.





When I first heard the host and politician, I first thought "if you tried to get along and find common ground, something might actually be done."
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#2 Old 01-28-2010, 10:55 AM
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You're only just noticing this "us vs them" attitude in politics? Where have you been? This goes back so far that George Washington warned against forming political parties in his farewell speech when leaving the presidency.



Though I've never heard the "unemployment is just a liberal media scare tactic" conspiracy theory before. That's just nuts.



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#3 Old 01-28-2010, 11:17 AM
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You're only just noticing this "us vs them" attitude in politics? Where have you been? This goes back so far that George Washington warned against forming political parties in his farewell speech when leaving the presidency.



Though I've never heard the "unemployment is just a liberal media scare tactic" conspiracy theory before. That's just nuts.



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I have seen it before in a sense, but here lately it appears to be like a war between the good (democrats or republicans or whatever) and evil (democrats or republicans or whatever) to battle each other to the death, all while wasting time and getting paid for it, while the causalities are not the people involved the war, but the people they are representing. In the past I at least heard some indications of people on one party or another trying to find something to work with, now it all appears like they do not care anything for the country, only to fight to the death of the other party in a never-ending struggle. Or maybe it is just as the news I hear only has information about the "battle of the parties" with nothing new mentioned on anything law or for the country.
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#4 Old 01-28-2010, 11:45 AM
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Obama really addressed this very issue dead on last night. He made a lot of good points on how everyone should work together and get things done instead of pointing fingers. I think he truly does want to bridge this gap. We'll see.
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#5 Old 01-28-2010, 12:23 PM
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Obama really addressed this very issue dead on last night. He made a lot of good points on how everyone should work together and get things done instead of pointing fingers. I think he truly does want to bridge this gap. We'll see.



The problem is, a gap can't be bridged unless both parties agree to move forward to close the gap. It's not possible to be unilaterally bipartisan, unless one side just jumps the gap entirely and becomes what the other party is.



I agree with JLRodgers - I've never seen the divide as ugly or as deep in my lifetime. It's worrisome.
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#6 Old 01-28-2010, 12:27 PM
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Maybe the philosophical divide will always be to great, but I think it's time for people to help one another in this country and stop worrying about big business. *shrugs*
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#7 Old 01-28-2010, 12:56 PM
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Obama really addressed this very issue dead on last night. He made a lot of good points on how everyone should work together and get things done instead of pointing fingers. I think he truly does want to bridge this gap. We'll see.



He needs to be out front more and show people exactly what is going on. Maybe if they see it more for what it is, more will understand.
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#8 Old 01-29-2010, 08:00 AM
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He needs to be out front more and show people exactly what is going on. Maybe if they see it more for what it is, more will understand.



If more see what for what it is, what will they understand? Granted I am just a simple guy, but my understanding of the way it was is that the Oval office was controlled by a democrate, the Senate up until 10 days ago was controlled by the Democrates and the House had a major numerical majority controlled by the Democrates. How exactly did republicans stop anything? Was it republicans that had to be bought off with back room deals to get votes for health care?



Granted I don't have a fancy piece of paper on my wall from some prestigious college but based on what this simple guy has seen it would appear the Democrates are their own worst enemy.
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#9 Old 01-29-2010, 08:25 AM
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If more see what for what it is, what will they understand? Granted I am just a simple guy, but my understanding of the way it was is that the Oval office was controlled by a democrate, the Senate up until 10 days ago was controlled by the Democrates and the House had a major numerical majority controlled by the Democrates. How exactly did republicans stop anything? Was it republicans that had to be bought off with back room deals to get votes for health care?



Granted I don't have a fancy piece of paper on my wall from some prestigious college but based on what this simple guy has seen it would appear the Democrates are their own worst enemy.



Honestly, I don't like the way things were handled. The deals he offered in order to gain those couple of votes are going to cause a problem down the line for him. Ya know what though, the Repulbicans used to just play hardball and do whatever they wanted when they were in power and didn't care at all what the other side thought about it. Obama, for whatever reason, decided to try to reach across the isle and all he got from that was to have his hand bitten. So which is right? I think he tried to do the right thing in the beginning and obviously that wasn't going to work in this case. The Republicans don't care about what issue is on the table right now, it could be anything, but if President Obama suggested it, they would say no to it just for the sake of saying no. That's wrong, very wrong.



What I think he should have done was to educate the public on what exactly was in the heath care bill, what it would mean to everyone. There was a lot of misinformation out there. He's very good at speaking w/ people, why not use that to make them understand what he's trying to do. There are plenty of people who are swayed by whatever the last biased blurb they hear on their televisions and many of those blurbs aren't facts. I know that not everyone wants health care, that's fine, but those that don't understand it should at least be given the entire story.
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#10 Old 01-29-2010, 08:51 AM
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Honestly, I don't like the way things were handled. The deals he offered in order to gain those couple of votes are going to cause a problem down the line for him. Ya know what though, the Republicans used to just play hardball and do whatever they wanted when they were in power and didn't care at all what the other side thought about it. Obama, for whatever reason, decided to try to reach across the isle and all he got from that was to have his hand bitten. So which is right? I think he tried to do the right thing in the beginning and obviously that wasn't going to work in this case. The Republicans don't care about what issue is on the table right now, it could be anything, but if Presient Obama suggested it, they would say no to it just for the sake of saying no. That's wrong, very wrong.



What I think he should have done was to educate the public on what exactly was in the heath care bill, what it would mean to everyone. There was a lot of misinformation out there. He's very good at speaking w/ people, why not use that to make them understand what he's trying to do. There are plenty of people who are swayed by whatever the last biased blurb they hear on their televisions and many of those blurbs aren't facts. I know that not everyone wants health care, that's fine, but those that don't understand it should at least be given the entire story.



Talk about the pot calling the kettle black that sounds like you got it off of MS NBC.



Ya know, I have done my own research on some of these issues looking at a lot of sides/opinions and I can honestly say that I don't trust anyone that is currently in office right now, and am under the impression that we the people have been sold out by our elected reps for their own profit on both sides of the spectrum. Which is why I am in support of term limits on congress and am also in support of voting out all incumbents.



I am so tired of hearing about how the current economic problems are Bush's fault when if one really looks below the surface.... well here's a couple of places for some of you to start:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-...eature=related



The reason he didn't "educate" the public about his "health care" is because the truth would have made more people oppose his bill. There are many of us that did read all 2,000 pages posted on line and were put off by it, what exactly do you think caused the rise of the tea bagger movement? Insult them all you want, bottem line is they are people who have started paying attention to what is going on in DC and are fed up with it. Tired of the lies and the self interest of our politicians.



Obama is a great used car salesman, it's sad so many are still fooled by his BS.



and BTW, something that goes way under reported is how Republican reps have offered proposels on health care and other issues only to be ignored by the White House. Obama has an agenda, and he will not accept ideas that don't support his agenda.
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#11 Old 01-29-2010, 09:43 AM
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There are many of us that did read all 2,000 pages posted on line and were put off by it, what exactly do you think caused the rise of the tea bagger movement? Insult them all you want, bottem line is they are people who have started paying attention to what is going on in DC and are fed up with it. Tired of the lies and the self interest of our politicians.



Interesting coincidence that these people "just started paying attention" when a Democrat was elected president.



I think if you did a survey, you would find that the tea baggers are all Republican supporters, and have been Republican supporters for years before Obama came on the scene. Partisan politics pretending to be a new movement...

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#12 Old 01-29-2010, 09:50 AM
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Talk about the pot calling the kettle black that sounds like you got it off of MS NBC.



Ya know, I have done my own research on some of these issues looking at a lot of sides/opinions and I can honestly say that I don't trust anyone that is currently in office right now, and am under the impression that we the people have been sold out by our elected reps for their own profit on both sides of the spectrum. Which is why I am in support of term limits on congress and am also in support of voting out all incumbents.



I am so tired of hearing about how the current economic problems are Bush's fault when if one really looks below the surface.... well here's a couple of places for some of you to start:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-...eature=related



The reason he didn't "educate" the public about his "health care" is because the truth would have made more people oppose his bill. There are many of us that did read all 2,000 pages posted on line and were put off by it, what exactly do you think caused the rise of the tea bagger movement? Insult them all you want, bottem line is they are people who have started paying attention to what is going on in DC and are fed up with it. Tired of the lies and the self interest of our politicians.



Obama is a great used car salesman, it's sad so many are still fooled by his BS.



and BTW, something that goes way under reported is how Republican reps have offered proposels on health care and other issues only to be ignored by the White House. Obama has an agenda, and he will not accept ideas that don't support his agenda.







Obviously, we don't agree at all. My thoughts are my own, not that of MS NBC. I'm sure yours are your own too and that you aren't lead by the tea bagging Foxers.



My thoughts on the heath care proposals, for what it's worth, are that it wasn't perfect, but it was a start. What we have is broken and lead by mobsters. Somethings got to give at some point. Look around the globe, we are failing our people in this department.



As for the rest, I didn't bash or insult anyone, now did I?



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#13 Old 01-29-2010, 10:35 AM
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Interesting coincidence that these people "just started paying attention" when a Democrat was elected president.



I think if you did a survey, you would find that the tea baggers are all Republican supporters, and have been Republican supporters for years before Obama came on the scene. Partisan politics pretending to be a new movement...



are they.... or are they mostly independents that are dissatisfied with both parties in power, and sick and tired of not being listened to? Why did it take a Democratic president and a house and senate with a majority before people started paying attention.... because the economy is in the tank and the Democratic lead gov't doesn't seem to be paying attention to the people that elected them.



It was telling for me where we the people stand in regards to our representitives feeling on this when after health care deals with the unions came up and Pelosi was asked why unions were given such a good deal on taxes in regards to health care and she said " well unions are better represented than non union people" ..... if that is the case then what exactly is the job of those we elect to office?
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#14 Old 01-29-2010, 10:42 AM
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Obviously, we don't agree at all. My thoughts are my own, not that of MS NBC. I'm sure yours are your own too and that you aren't lead by the tea bagging Foxers.



My thoughts on the heath care proposals, for what it's worth, are that it wasn't perfect, but it was a start. What we have is broken and lead by mobsters. Somethings got to give at some point. Look around the globe, we are failing our people in this department.

Yeah I guess we



As for the rest, I didn't bash or insult anyone, now did I?










I will admit that recently when it comes to US politics I have become a convert to FOX news. What exactly do you think would happen if the gov't got more involved with health care? What gov't program has excelled in any way?



I agree we obviously don't agree at all, I don't believe in more gov't intrusion into my life.... I kinda believe in the constitution and the limits it places on the gov't.... if I wanted the gov't more involved in my life I would immgrate to a nation where the gov't hand feeds everyone.



I didn't bash anyone either... what's the point?
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#15 Old 01-29-2010, 12:43 PM
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I will admit that recently when it comes to US politics I have become a convert to FOX news. What exactly do you think would happen if the gov't got more involved with health care? What gov't program has excelled in any way?



I agree we obviously don't agree at all, I don't believe in more gov't intrusion into my life.... I kinda believe in the constitution and the limits it places on the gov't.... if I wanted the gov't more involved in my life I would immgrate to a nation where the gov't hand feeds everyone.



I didn't bash anyone either... what's the point?



I liken what has happened w/ our healthcare system to the monopolies that aren't supposed to be allowed anymore because they hold too much power and offer no other alternatives. No one can afford health care anymore. That's wrong. Our families health insurance premiums take 2 weeks of my husbands take home pay and rivals our mortgage payment, even with that the deductables are so out of wack it's like not having insurance at all for most of the year. That's wrong. People should not lose their homes or be in fear of losing their health care coverage because they have a perexisiting condition. The insurance companies have no troubles w/ cashing our checks when they are coming in, yet when it comes time for them to help out when we actually get sick, it's a whole other story. That's wrong.



I am amazed at the amount of people who say, "What government programs have excelled? or say things like "I don't want the government touching my healhcare..." Yet, those very people seem to have no problem going to their mailboxes when they are of age and accepting Medicare (a gov't run program btw).



What it all truly boils down to is money and selfishness. Some people don't want their tax dollars going to help anyone but themselves. To those people, I hope life never hands you a bad deal and all those safety nets that some of wanted there for all of us are gone. I'd gladly chip in to help you out, why wouldn't you do the same for me?
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#16 Old 01-29-2010, 12:47 PM
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I will admit that recently when it comes to US politics I have become a convert to FOX news. What exactly do you think would happen if the gov't got more involved with health care? What gov't program has excelled in any way?



I agree we obviously don't agree at all, I don't believe in more gov't intrusion into my life.... I kinda believe in the constitution and the limits it places on the gov't.... if I wanted the gov't more involved in my life I would immgrate to a nation where the gov't hand feeds everyone.



I didn't bash anyone either... what's the point?



I liken what has happened w/ our healthcare system to the monopolies that aren't supposed to be allowed anymore because they hold too much power and offer no other alternatives. No one can afford health care anymore. That's wrong. My family's health insurance premiums take 2 weeks of my husbands take home pay and rivals our mortgage payment. Even with that, the deductables are so out of wack it's like not having insurance at all for most of the year. That's wrong. People should not lose their homes or be in fear of losing their health care coverage because they have a prexisiting condition. The insurance companies have no troubles w/ cashing our checks when they are coming in, yet when it comes time for them to help out when we actually get sick, it's a whole other story. That's wrong.



I am amazed at the amount of people who say, "What government programs have excelled? or say things like "I don't want the government touching my healhcare..." Yet, those very people seem to have no problem going to their mailboxes when they are of age and accepting Medicare (a gov't run program btw).



What it all truly boils down to is money and selfishness. Some people don't want their tax dollars going to help anyone but themselves. To those people, I hope life never hands you a bad deal and all those safety nets that some of wanted there for all of us are gone. I'd gladly chip in to help you out, why wouldn't you do the same for me?
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#17 Old 01-29-2010, 01:20 PM
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I liken what has happened w/ our healthcare system to the monopolies that aren't supposed to be allowed anymore because they hold too much power and offer no other alternatives. No one can afford health care anymore. That's wrong. Our families health insurance premiums take 2 weeks of my husbands take home pay and rivals our mortgage payment, even with that the deductables are so out of wack it's like not having insurance at all for most of the year. That's wrong. People should not lose their homes or be in fear of losing their health care coverage because they have a perexisiting condition. The insurance companies have no troubles w/ cashing our checks when they are coming in, yet when it comes time for them to help out when we actually get sick, it's a whole other story. That's wrong.



I am amazed at the amount of people who say, "What government programs have excelled? or say things like "I don't want the government touching my healhcare..." Yet, those very people seem to have no problem going to their mailboxes when they are of age and accepting Medicare (a gov't run program btw).



What it all truly boils down to is money and selfishness. Some people don't want their tax dollars going to help anyone but themselves. To those people, I hope life never hands you a bad deal and all those safety nets that some of wanted there for all of us are gone. I'd gladly chip in to help you out, why wouldn't you do the same for me?



Medicaid, I understand it is a gov't run program..... as is SS, and at the way things are going despite having paid into both of them since I was 13 yrs old the way things are going I won't see a dime from either of them, so I will ask again what gov't programs have excelled?



I don't disagree that health care providers are a monoply, which is why one needs to take away take away the protections the gov't has enacted on their behalf, and start applying anti trust laws to this industry, open states up to more than a limited number of providers. How exactly does requiring all individuals to buy health insurance do anything to disrupt the monoply that is the health care industry. Personally I find it pretty telling that a state which has state wide health care has voted to reject national health care being put forth by the Democrats in congress.
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#18 Old 01-29-2010, 01:24 PM
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Medicaid, I understand it is a gov't run program

said "Medicare" as in for old people, they like their Medicare very much.



Will address the rest...the hoodlums are in baby bird feed me position...
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#19 Old 01-29-2010, 01:33 PM
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I liken what has happened w/ our healthcare system to the monopolies that aren't supposed to be allowed anymore because they hold too much power and offer no other alternatives. No one can afford health care anymore. That's wrong. Our families health insurance premiums take 2 weeks of my husbands take home pay and rivals our mortgage payment, even with that the deductables are so out of wack it's like not having insurance at all for most of the year. That's wrong. People should not lose their homes or be in fear of losing their health care coverage because they have a perexisiting condition. The insurance companies have no troubles w/ cashing our checks when they are coming in, yet when it comes time for them to help out when we actually get sick, it's a whole other story. That's wrong.





That's insurance in general for you though, be it health, car or home insurance. They gladly take your $ but don't really want you making claims.



I agree something needs to be done about the hard-working people who can't afford health insurance. I just don't want the gov't in charge of it. They can't even properly handle Medicare and Medicaid.



I'm not sure what the answer is. :/
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#20 Old 01-29-2010, 01:38 PM
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said "Medicare" as in for old people, they like their Medicare very much.



Not all of them like it.



Medicare sucks. My dad worked his butt off his whole life, paid plenty into it, yet has trouble now when he needs it. "We don't cover that" is their motto. Translation: You're too damn old and ill. Just die already.
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#21 Old 01-29-2010, 01:41 PM
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Not all of them like it.



Medicare sucks. My dad worked his butt off his whole life, paid plenty into it, yet has trouble now when he needs it. "We don't cover that" is their motto. Translation: You're too damn old and ill. Just die already.



All the more reason to get some national health care so that he can get help. Medicare is usually looked forward to only because at that age, people can't generally afford to buy health insurance....therein being the prob.
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#22 Old 01-29-2010, 01:42 PM
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said "Medicare" as in for old people, they like their Medicare very much.



Will address the rest...the hoodlums are in baby bird feed me position...



medicare, medicaid, it's all the same and I know what it's for, and as I have already pointed out, after paying into it for more than 30 yrs the way things are going now I won't see a dime of that care which was taken from me for the last 33yrs.
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#23 Old 01-29-2010, 01:42 PM
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That's insurance in general for you though, be it health, car or home insurance. They gladly take your $ but don't really want you making claims.



I agree something needs to be done about the hard-working people who can't afford health insurance. I just don't want the gov't in charge of it. They can't even properly handle Medicare and Medicaid.



I'm not sure what the answer is. :/



It needs some oversite and transparency. Right now it's the most crooked racket going.
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#24 Old 01-29-2010, 01:47 PM
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It needs some oversite and transparency. Right now it's the most crooked racket going.



sure, in part because they are not subject to anti trust laws, and what is currently on the table in both the house and senate does nothing to address the way health insurance is provided or enacted.
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#25 Old 01-29-2010, 01:52 PM
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I will admit that recently when it comes to US politics I have become a convert to FOX news.



Fox isn't news. It's Republican propaganda. 'We report - you decide? No spin? Fair and balanced?'



Seriously. That's some heavy duty wool they are pulling over your head.

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#26 Old 01-29-2010, 01:58 PM
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Fox isn't news. It's Republican propaganda. 'We report - you decide? No spin? Fair and balanced?'



Seriously. That's some heavy duty wool they are pulling over your head.



IF you say so..... I got accused of parroting FOX, Beck, OReilly and Limbaugh so much that I finally decided to watch them, and to be honest I find their reporting to be a lot more balanced then CNN, NBC, ABC, and what ever other alphbet group you want to add.... to each their own though, you are entitled to your opinion.
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#27 Old 01-29-2010, 02:24 PM
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I find their reporting to be a lot more balanced then CNN, NBC, ABC, and what ever other alphbet group you want to add....





This is the least surprising thing I've read all day.
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#28 Old 01-29-2010, 02:30 PM
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This is the least surprising thing I've read all day.



my only regret..... I haven't been paying attention longer.
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#29 Old 01-29-2010, 02:34 PM
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my only regret..... I haven't been paying attention longer.



I'm sure- it's always gratifying to find one's biases and bigotries reinforced by others.
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#30 Old 01-29-2010, 02:57 PM
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I'm sure- it's always gratifying to find one's biases and bigotries reinforced by others.



my biases and bigotries?
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