As Many As 20 Present At Gang Rape Outside Schol Dance (Richmond, CA), MAY TRIGGER - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 10-28-2009, 01:16 PM
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I am absolutely disgusted by this.



I've put a trigger warning on this to be sensitive to board members who may have experienced sexual assault. The article is fairly safe, but the subject matter is, without a doubt, deeply disturbing.



Link: October 28, 2009, story and video news coverage



Quote:
Richmond, California (CNN)



Investigators say as many as 20 people were involved in or stood and watched the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a California high school homecoming dance Saturday night.



Police posted a $20,000 reward Tuesday for anyone who comes to them with information that helps arrest and convict those involved in what authorities describe as a 2½-hour assault on the Richmond High School campus in suburban San Francisco.



Two teenage suspects have been jailed, but more arrests, as many as 20 total, are expected, according to a police detective.



"We will be making arrests continually as we develop probable cause," said Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan. "With this number of people implicated in the incident we're going to be making arrests on an ongoing basis."



As many as 10 people were involved in the assault in a dimly lighted back alley at the school, while another 10 people watched without calling 911 to report it, police said.



A 1999 California law makes it illegal not to report a witnessed crime against a child, but the law applies only to children 14 and under.

"We do not have the ability to arrest people who witnessed the crime and did nothing," Gagan said. "The law can be very rigid. We don't have the authority to make an arrest."



Charles Ramsey, a member of the Richmond school board, said the school district bears some responsibility for the attack. School administrators and police apparently weren't watching the area as they should have, Ramsey said.



The school said it would hold a safety meeting for parents and students Wednesday evening to address the assault.



The victim was found unconscious under a bench shortly before midnight Saturday, after police received a call from someone in the area who had overheard people at the assault scene "reminiscing about the incident," Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan said.



The girl was flown by helicopter to a hospital where she was admitted in critical condition. She was in stable condition Tuesday, police said.



Investigators canvassed the community with fliers, which included the reward offer, hoping to identify more suspects Tuesday.



"There is one individual in custody who has made some spontaneous statements that have led me to believe that he is culpable for what happened," Richmond police Lt. Johan Simon said.



Nineteen-year-old Manuel Ortega, described as a former student at the school, was arrested soon after he fled the scene and will face charges of rape, robbery and kidnapping, police said.



A 15-year-old was later arrested and charged with one count of felony sexual assault. A third teenager was being interviewed, Gagan said.



"Based on witness statements and suspect statements, and also physical evidence, we know that she was raped by at least four suspects committing multiple sex acts," Gagan said.



"As people announced over time that this was going on, more people came to see, and some actually participated," Gagan said.

The attack occurred on school grounds as the annual homecoming dance was under way inside the school Saturday night, authorities said.

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#2 Old 10-28-2009, 01:23 PM
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where was junior jones & the black arm of the law during this?

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#3 Old 10-28-2009, 01:24 PM
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I read this yesterday and was totally appalled. I think anyone who would stand around and watch something like this happening is as bad as the ones actually participating.
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#4 Old 10-28-2009, 03:06 PM
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I couldn't even make it all the way through that story....

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#5 Old 10-28-2009, 03:09 PM
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& wtf it happens on school property while homecoming is going on?



what kind of school staffer wouldn't follow a bunch of kids all going to one random place on the campus?



that SCREAMS something is afoot.

cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.
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#6 Old 10-28-2009, 03:16 PM
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Unbelievable. Is there something wrong with these people's heads, that they wouldnt go running for help?!
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#7 Old 10-28-2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post

& wtf it happens on school property while homecoming is going on?



what kind of school staffer wouldn't follow a bunch of kids all going to one random place on the campus?



that SCREAMS something is afoot.



Considering it occurred over a period of two hours, and outdoors, my guess is the crowd that gathered consisted of those leaving the dance.



Did read correctly at least one person arrested is a former student?
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#8 Old 10-28-2009, 03:41 PM
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Let's all jump to conclusions before the full facts of the case are known.



Quick, grab your torches and pitchforks!
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#9 Old 10-28-2009, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenickie View Post


what kind of school staffer wouldn't follow a bunch of kids all going to one random place on the campus?





You'd be suprised. At Tolo my freshman year my date decided he wanted to go streaking. I thought he was kidding(he was not), but left with him and our friends anyway since he was my ride home. The dance chaperones let us leave and truly didn't care we were leaving half an hour early.





Back on topic...this is disgusting. All of the kids involved should be expelled and charged with rape, regardless of whether or not they actually raped her.
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#10 Old 10-28-2009, 03:49 PM
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They've done studies on this. It just takes one person to stand up and the crowd will help.



We were taught in school that if we ever find ourselves in a similar situation to point to someone in the crowd and ask that person for help. That person then feels responsible for you and they will help you.



I don't understand that. People who know right from wrong choosing not to help because they're waiting for someone else to step in.
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#11 Old 10-28-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JedEckert View Post

Considering it occurred over a period of two hours, and outdoors, my guess is the crowd that gathered consisted of those leaving the dance.



Did read correctly at least one person arrested is a former student?



Actually, in one of the videos they show you where the assault took place. It's pretty tucked-away, in the back of the school.



And yeah, one of the assailants, a 19-year-old young man, was arrested fleeing the scene shirtless.



Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Let's all jump to conclusions before the full facts of the case are known.



Quick, grab your torches and pitchforks!



Das_Nut, I usually agree with what you post, but... under what circumstances would you deem it okay for +/- 10 people to watch +/- 10 other people gang-rape a 15-year-old girl? I'm not asking whether they should be convicted... just whether they should be made to explain themselves in court, against criminal charges. Seems pretty fair to me.
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#12 Old 10-28-2009, 04:25 PM
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I'm just waiting for the Greek chorus proclaiming how the 15 year old was at least partially responsible for her rape.
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#13 Old 10-28-2009, 04:32 PM
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I'm just waiting for the Greek chorus proclaiming how the 15 year old was at least partially responsible for her rape.

Yeah, I'm sure she dressed slutty and deserved it.
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#14 Old 10-28-2009, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mlp View Post

I'm just waiting for the Greek chorus proclaiming how the 15 year old was at least partially responsible for her rape.



On other sites, most of them news articles and (surprise, surprise) news videos uploaded to YouTube, people are already responding along the lines of "dAm slUts, thEy AlwAzE bE AskIn fO dA rApEEz!!!1!"



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#15 Old 10-28-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison182 View Post

Unbelievable. Is there something wrong with these people's heads, that they wouldnt go running for help?!



Well, yes, there is probably SOMETHING wrong with them.



But that's also the stupid thing about humans in groups. So even if some of the people in the group were not super enthusiastic about what they were seeing? They tend to view responsibility as DIVIDED among members of the group. So the more people there are, the less responsibility any one individual feels. And the easier it is for someone to assume "Someone else has surely called for help... Someone else is more qualified than I am to intervene - stronger, older, etc. - so it's on them... LOOK how many people are seeing this - someone is going to do something, so I don't have to."



Everything we know about social psychology tells us the poor girl probably would have stood a better chance of getting help sooner had only a single observer stumbled upon the rape.



Insane. It's just insane. People in groups are often so so so much worse than any individual in the group.
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#16 Old 10-28-2009, 04:41 PM
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They are all *******s. They should be castrated, their genitals burnt before their eyes, and they beheaded. I hope they rot in hell. Where was the girl's family, though? Why as she out on her own without her brother or father or sisters? This does not mean she deserves it but really, people should keep a watch on their younger and more vulnerable womenfolk.



By the way, this is hyperbole, thank you to the person who gave me that word in another thread.
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#17 Old 10-28-2009, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amhappy1 View Post

They've done studies on this. It just takes one person to stand up and the crowd will help.



We were taught in school that if we ever find ourselves in a similar situation to point to someone in the crowd and ask that person for help. That person then feels responsible for you and they will help you.



I don't understand that. People who know right from wrong choosing not to help because they're waiting for someone else to step in.



People are sheep and our brains tend to turn off easily in a crowd. Sad but true.



That's good advice about pointing at people though, I'll have to remember that.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
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#18 Old 10-28-2009, 04:46 PM
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People are sheep and our brains tend to turn off easily in a crowd. Sad but true.



That's good advice about pointing at people though, I'll have to remember that.



I really, really, really hope that you never, ever have to remember that advice.
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#19 Old 10-28-2009, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Semicharmed View Post

So even if some of the people in the group were not super enthusiastic about what they were seeing? They tend to view responsibility as DIVIDED among members of the group. So the more people there are, the less responsibility any one individual feels. And the easier it is for someone to assume "Someone else has surely called for help... Someone else is more qualified than I am to intervene - stronger, older, etc. - so it's on them... LOOK how many people are seeing this - someone is going to do something, so I don't have to."

Too true, unfortunately. Like the 19 year-old boy who committed suicide on webcam last year while 1500 people watched. Some even egged him on and told him to 'get on with it'. Fifteen hundred people watching and not one attempted to report it to authorities until two hours after he took the pills and appeared dead.
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#20 Old 10-28-2009, 05:00 PM
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I hope they all rot in jail.
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#21 Old 10-28-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyDuck View Post

Actually, in one of the videos they show you where the assault took place. It's pretty tucked-away, in the back of the school.



And yeah, one of the assailants, a 19-year-old young man, was arrested fleeing the scene shirtless.



Is the location inside the school or outside?





Quote:

Das_Nut, I usually agree with what you post, but... under what circumstances would you deem it okay for +/- 10 people to watch +/- 10 other people gang-rape a 15-year-old girl? I'm not asking whether they should be convicted... just whether they should be made to explain themselves in court, against criminal charges. Seems pretty fair to me.



What if they said they thought they were observing consensual sexual relations? As it happened over a long period of time, I am curious as to what the alleged crowd actually saw.
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#22 Old 10-28-2009, 05:03 PM
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Did one of the students eventually call the cops? does anyone know how the cops found out? I skimmed the article, but didn't see.



Edit:

Never mind.

Quote:

The victim was found unconscious under a bench shortly before midnight Saturday, after police received a call from someone in the area who had overheard people at the assault scene "reminiscing about the incident," Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan said.









Quote:
Originally Posted by JedEckert View Post


What if they said they thought they were observing consensual sexual relations? As it happened over a long period of time, I am curious as to what the alleged crowd actually saw.

She had to be taken to the hospital in a helicopter in critical condition. There's no way what happened to her could have looked consensual.
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#23 Old 10-28-2009, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JedEckert View Post


What if they said they thought they were observing consensual sexual relations? As it happened over a long period of time, I am curious as to what the alleged crowd actually saw.



She had to be taken to the hospital in a helicopter in critical condition. There's no way what happened to her could have looked consensual.
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#24 Old 10-28-2009, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyDuck View Post

Das_Nut, I usually agree with what you post, but... under what circumstances would you deem it okay for +/- 10 people to watch +/- 10 other people gang-rape a 15-year-old girl? I'm not asking whether they should be convicted... just whether they should be made to explain themselves in court, against criminal charges. Seems pretty fair to me.



How do we know that ten people sat around and watched ten other people rape a teenage girl?



The news?



We shouldn't use a news report to decide what actually happened, especially when the news may be biased towards more sensational headlines and theories.



Until we know who saw what, and how much, it is premature to say that we should start charging people.
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#25 Old 10-28-2009, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post

Where was the girl's family, though?



Her father came to pick her up. That's why she left the dance - to go meet him. While all this was happening, a father was looking for his little girl.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post

I really, really, really hope that you never, ever have to remember that advice.



Sh*t, I'm already kicking myself for not having known that piece of advice before...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post

Too true, unfortunately. Like the 19 year-old boy who committed suicide on webcam last year while 1500 people watched. Some even egged him on and told him to 'get on with it'. Fifteen hundred people watching and not one attempted to report it to authorities until two hours after he took the pills and appeared dead.



I didn't hear about that. Do you have a link to the story? (I've got some ongoing research projects and it's really relevant to at least one of them.)
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#26 Old 10-28-2009, 05:11 PM
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It's news like that which makes me wish there was a hell...... with a special place reserved for the onlookers who would not help (really... who would consent to sex with that many people in an alley?... ok I might know a few... but eh... I would think there would've been some sigh it was not willing).
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#27 Old 10-28-2009, 05:14 PM
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I didn't hear about that. Do you have a link to the story? (I've got some ongoing research projects and it's really relevant to at least one of them.)

There are actually quite a few news articles about it, depending which outlet you'd like to use. Just google '1500 watch suicide' and you'll get a bunch of hits.
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#28 Old 10-28-2009, 05:19 PM
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Until we know who saw what, and how much, it is premature to say that we should start charging people.



Totally agree. We don't have all the facts so we can't make an informed opinion on what we think should be done.
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#29 Old 10-28-2009, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JedEckert View Post

Is the location inside the school or outside



Outside, in an unlit courtyard with conveniently-broken security cameras.





Quote:
Originally Posted by JedEckert View Post

What if they said they thought they were observing consensual sexual relations? As it happened over a long period of time, I am curious as to what the alleged crowd actually saw.



Well, that is the defensive line I'm betting many will take. (Although, as animallover already mentioned, she was in critical condition by the end of it. She's still in hospital now.) But it doesn't answer the question: should they be charged? Not convicted - that's the judge's decision - just charged in the first place.



Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

How do we know that ten people sat around and watched ten other people rape a teenage girl?



The news?



We shouldn't use a news report to decide what actually happened, especially when the news may be biased towards more sensational headlines and theories.



Until we know who saw what, and how much, it is premature to say that we should start charging people.



They know that at least 4 participated in actual sexual acts, based on physical evidence collected at the hospital. There is a video clip of a police officer telling reporters that some students took pictures with cell phones and one may have captured a video of at least part of the assault.



The number of onlookers and non-penetrative assailants varies by news source to news source, true, but we know that multiple people raped her, while multiple people watched.
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#30 Old 10-28-2009, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post

There are actually quite a few news articles about it, depending which outlet you'd like to use. Just google '1500 watch suicide' and you'll get a bunch of hits.



Thanks! I'll definitely look into it.
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