Dalai Lama is not a vegetarian. Any thoughts? - Page 5 - VeggieBoards
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#121 Old 10-21-2009, 01:34 PM
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As far as I can see, he is not a Buddhist and should not be holding the post. Buddhism does not allow any violence against animals.
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#122 Old 10-21-2009, 01:37 PM
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As far as I can see, he is not a Buddhist and should not be holding the post. Bhudism does not allow any violence against animals.



Lots of Buddhists eat meat. The fact that they eat meat doesn't change their religious beliefs.



"Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you." - Jivaka Sutta, MN 55.



Straight from the mouth of the man himself.





That being said, I don't think Buddhists should eat meat because I think it conflicts with the First Precept. It's kind of like declaring a holy war when the First Commandment is: Thou shalt not kill. And as far as that goes, Christians shouldn't eat meat either, even though meat-eating is included in their scriptures.



Don't make no sense.
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#123 Old 10-21-2009, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pixelle View Post

Well, as I already said the FIRST time you said it (LOL) I wasn't saying you should go around TELLING other people how to live, but when you are amongst other vegans, you could at least make it sound like you're not defending the eating of animals by omni-Buddhists.













Yeh, that IS some spin IMO. And judging his Buddhisimity is possible because I already have - Oh the shame, I'm so bad! He and a whole heap of other Buddhists are disrespecting one of the big precepts and I think it would make a lot more sense if people stopped finding ways to justify him doing that and just admit that's what goes on.



* I'm of the opinion that Buddhism IS a religion despite protests that it isn't by those who practice it. It happens to have a doctrine that is followed, it has deities to worship, there's religious symbolism, prayers etc and temples - that's enough evidence for me that it's a religion - a bit less confining than some maybe, but a religion nonetheless.

Well, on a personal level I am not impressed by the Dalai Lama and if my opinion were asked, I would strongly disapprove of his meat eating...but it would have nothing to do with the religious aspect. Instead, I would look at him as someone who should especially know better. The old texts tell us that animals have souls as we do and should not be killed. You don't have to be a Buddhist to take that teaching to heart.



Still, "Buddhism" as well as some select other "religions" are not so black and white. Certainly the protocol for who or what is worshiped or adored is cultural and varies from place to place. Likewise with what is considered to be moral or immoral. But Buddhism at it's heart is an extension of very ancient philosophy (Buddha being only a facet)...which later broke apart into different groups and has changed with the times. It's convenient to label them all as one group but it's not that easy.



Calling it all a religion to me is confining it to a simplified little corner (and I'm not even a Buddhist).

IMHO however, if you are a vegetarian (for ethical reasons) then you have automatically hit a higher spiritual level than your average person. Religious or otherwise. Labels suck.
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#124 Old 10-21-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I think llamas are cooler than lamas. People should consider more llamas as spiritual leaders, instead of some lamas.



Then alpacas would be like...monks?
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#125 Old 10-21-2009, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Pixelle View Post

I think it's a little ridiculous that here is a guy who supposedly represents non-materialistic Buddhist values, and yet he's getting around the world in first class travel and accommodation, and eating food made by top class chefs on what is basically the celeb circuit for a large part of his time. It's pretty strange. Having said that though, he still makes a lot of sense when you hear him speak - not that I'm into it at all.



Like the Pope. Isn't he meant to take a vow of poverty? Or is that just the lowly nuns?
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#126 Old 10-22-2009, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe View Post

Tough nuggies. You seem content to ignore the murders and persecutions of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Tibetans.



You might want to actually look at what this thread is about, and if you must, start your own thread about the plight of the Tibetans. But it sounds like you're content to ignore the murders of billions of animals for food, as you call it a "relatively trivial" issue. I think any adult who eats veal who knows what it's about has a deep problem with compassion, especially the Dalai Lama, who should know better.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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#127 Old 10-22-2009, 07:34 PM
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^ Agreed. If you are a religious figure than you best damn practice what you preach.
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#128 Old 10-22-2009, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

You might want to actually look at what this thread is about, and if you must, start your own thread about the plight of the Tibetans. But it sounds like you're content to ignore the murders of billions of animals for food, as you call it a "relatively trivial" issue. I think any adult who eats veal who knows what it's about has a deep problem with compassion, especially the Dalai Lama, who should know better.





Well, don't you know that unless you provide a disclaimer about your concern for humans every time you express concern for animals, it is clear that you have absolutely no compassion for humans?



EXAMPLE:



I hate the fact that people abandon their animals to die miserable deaths by starvation, disease and/or predators.



^^^ Unacceptable. Obviously, the person who wrote this has no concern or compassion for human beings.



Although I hate the fact that people abandon their animals to die miserable deaths by starvation, disease and/or predators, this issue obviously pales in comparison to the plight of starving children all over the world.



^^^ Just barely acceptable.



Although people abandon their animals to die by starvation, disease and/or predators, at least that's part of the natural cycle of life and death, so why would anyone worry about that when there are children starving all over the world?



^^^ Acceptable.
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#129 Old 10-22-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mlp View Post

Well, don't you know that unless you provide a disclaimer about your concern for humans every time you express concern for animals, it is clear that you have absolutely no compassion for humans?



EXAMPLE:



I hate the fact that people abandon their animals to die miserable deaths by starvation, disease and/or predators.







This and Sevenseas' Tom Cruise post have me laughing tonight. Thanks.
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#130 Old 10-25-2009, 12:15 PM
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No comment really, religious leaders are no different than politicians so I don't really care what the Dalai Lama does one way or another. He's just an other guy.



Out of curiosity, however, does anyone know if any past Dalai Lamas have been strictly vegetarian? I am aware of the stance of Buddhism in general, but with a quick internet search I couldn't find anything stating that even a single past Dalai Lama had been vegetarian.

"I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine." Bruce Lee.

"On a large enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." Chuck Palahniuk (Fight Club)

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#131 Old 10-29-2009, 11:03 AM
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I don't think that it is important that a prior Dalai Lama was a vegetarian or not.



Here is the gist of my argument:



1) If you are high in the Himalayas, as Tibet is, and especially in the nineteenth century and before, where and when it is next to impossible to have a vegetarian diet, that is one thing. In other words, meat-eating is OK, under those times and circumstances.



2) But to travel to other places (for example, Milwaukee, in May of 2007, (as mentioned in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel newspaper) as the current Dalai Lama did, where vegetarian foods are in abundance, is absolutely not acceptable. Especially if he endorse the eating of veal.



3) And, of all meats to eat, to choose veal, where a calf is tormented to provide a so-called "delicious meat", is thoroughly outrageous.



4) The Dalai Lama's own website says that "the Dalai Lama is not necessarily a vegetarian, at least not outside Dharamsala", which implies that he is a vegetarian while residing at Dharamsala. Dharamsala can certainly be considered in the high foothills of the Himalayas. If he can be a vegetarian there, in that remote region, why not in the temperate USA, in springtime?



I agree with you that most religious leaders are hypocritical; they say one thing, but do the opposite.



But the Dalai Lama is the darling of Hollywood and the cause celebre of Generation X. His influence is considerable.



All I wish is that he would practice what he preaches. If he does not, then he should abandon the traditional claim of himself being the incarnation of Avalokitesvara, the Boddhisattva of Compassion.



If even I have the fortitude to give up meat-eating, I would certainly hope that he could, too. Or, at least, eschew veal.
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#132 Old 10-30-2009, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dunestrider View Post

I don't think that it is important that a prior Dalai Lama was a vegetarian or not.



Here is the gist of my argument:



1) If you are high in the Himalayas, as Tibet is, and especially in the nineteenth century and before, where and when it is next to impossible to have a vegetarian diet, that is one thing. In other words, meat-eating is OK, under those times and circumstances.



2) But to travel to other places (for example, Milwaukee, in May of 2007, (as mentioned in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel newspaper) as the current Dalai Lama did, where vegetarian foods are in abundance, is absolutely not acceptable. Especially if he endorse the eating of veal.



3) And, of all meats to eat, to choose veal, where a calf is tormented to provide a so-called "delicious meat", is thoroughly outrageous.



4) The Dalai Lama's own website says that "the Dalai Lama is not necessarily a vegetarian, at least not outside Dharamsala", which implies that he is a vegetarian while residing at Dharamsala. Dharamsala can certainly be considered in the high foothills of the Himalayas. If he can be a vegetarian there, in that remote region, why not in the temperate USA, in springtime?



I agree with you that most religious leaders are hypocritical; they say one thing, but do the opposite.



But the Dalai Lama is the darling of Hollywood and the cause celebre of Generation X. His influence is considerable.



All I wish is that he would practice what he preaches. If he does not, then he should abandon the traditional claim of himself being the incarnation of Avalokitesvara, the Boddhisattva of Compassion.



If even I have the fortitude to give up meat-eating, I would certainly hope that he could, too. Or, at least, eschew veal.



Well said!
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#133 Old 11-08-2009, 01:26 PM
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Kinda sad if u can't follow the rule book u stand for, show me a man of principles and I will show you Jesus,Allah,Shakti,Buddha working thru them!
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#134 Old 11-08-2009, 06:33 PM
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If he does not, then he should abandon the traditional claim of himself being the incarnation of Avalokitesvara, the Boddhisattva of Compassion.



Actually, in interviews, he doubts the truth of this claim, and considers that it may be more a cultural fiction than a fact, considers the possibility of there not being a "next incarnation" after he dies, and implies that he mostly is hanging on to it for the fact that it has cultural value, and can serve as a rallying point for Tibetans, as well as because it is good theatre for the press, and therefore helpful in regard to his primary goal: which is to improve the political situation and well-being and self-determination of Tibetans.



In some ways he is a kind of cool guy, by not taking all the religous mumbo jumbo too seriously, noting that he lucked into the situation - others cast him into the role of Dalai Lama. He is hanging on to it, he says, primarily for the practical value he thinks it can have, in improving the situation for Tibetans.
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#135 Old 11-09-2009, 12:13 AM
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Buddhism does not force you to be a vegetarian.

So, I don't think it's a big deal.
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