FTAA Judge: I saw police commit felonies - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-22-2003, 11:21 PM
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> Sat, Dec. 20, 2003

> FREE TRADE MEETING

> Judge: I saw police commit felonies

> A judge who said he witnessed some of the anti-free trade

> protests complains in open court about how police handled

> the demonstrations.

> By AMY DRISCOLL

> mailto:[email protected]

>

> A judge presiding over the cases of free trade protesters

> said in court that he saw "no less than 20 felonies

> committed by police officers" during the November

> demonstrations, adding to a chorus of complaints about

> police conduct.

>

> Judge Richard Margolius, 60, made the remarks in open court

> last week, saying he was taken aback by what he witnessed

> while attending the protests.

>

> "Pretty disgraceful what I saw with my own eyes. And I have

> always supported the police during my entire career," he

> said, according to a court transcript. "This was a real

> eye-opener. A disgrace for the community."

>

> In the transcript, he also said he may have to remove

> himself from any additional cases involving arrests made

> during the Free Trade Area of the Americas summit.

>

> "I probably would have been arrested myself if it had not

> been for a police officer who recognized me," said the

> judge, who wears his hair in a graying ponytail.

>

> CIRCUIT JUDGE

>

> Margolius, appointed to the bench in 1982, retired as a

> circuit judge in 2001 but said he still hears cases 15 to 20

> weeks a year when courts are overburdened.

>

> On Friday, he chose not to elaborate on the remarks he made

> from the bench Dec. 11.

>

> "I can't comment on pending cases," he said. "It was

> inappropriate for me to make the comments I made. A

> reasonable person could question my neutrality because of

> statements I made in open court."

>

> The judge did not single out a police department. More than

> three dozen agencies were part of the FTAA security effort.

> The Miami Police Department coordinated most police operations.

>

> Angel Calzadilla, executive assistant to Miami Police Chief

> John Timoney, said: "The chief's not going to comment on

> something this vague. If the judge would like to file a

> complaint with the CIP [Citizens Investigative Panel] he can

> do that like any other citizen."

>

> Nelda Fonticiella, a spokeswoman for the Miami-Dade Police

> Department, which had a large presence during the protests,

> also said the judge can file a complaint. "It would be our

> hope and expectation that if this is how he feels, that he

> would recuse himself from those cases," she said.

>

> Margolius had been hearing the cases of Joseph Diamond and

> Danielle Kilroy, both arrested during the FTAA protests.

> Diamond had been charged with aggravated assault on a police

> officer, a felony; the charges were dropped by the state at

> the Dec. 11 hearing.

>

> RESISTING ARREST

>

> Kilroy also faced felony charges -- battery on a police

> officer and resisting arrest with violence. Her charges were

> reduced to a single misdemeanor, resisting arrest without

> violence, according to members of the Miami Activist

> Defense, a legal group monitoring the court hearings.

>

> During the Dec. 11 hearings, the judge asked an assistant

> state attorney, "How many police officers have been charged

> by the State Attorney so far for what happened out there

> during the FTAA?"

>

> None, the prosecutor replied.

>

> "None?" asked the judge. "Pretty sad commentary. At least

> from what I saw."

>

> The judge also wondered aloud how much the "whole episode"

> had cost taxpayers.

>

> "I know one thing. There were police officers from every

> agency -- I couldn't believe the sheer numbers," he said.

>

> Laurel Ripple, a protester who was arrested and is working

> with MAD, said she was in the courtroom during Margolius'

> remarks.

>

> "I'm really glad he saw for himself what was happening . . .

> I'm really glad he was out there," she said. "As a lifelong

> Miami resident and victim of the police during the FTAA, it

> was really supportive to hear that kind of affirmation from

> Judge Margolius."

>

> The FTAA summit, Nov. 20 and 21, sparked marches and

> protests in downtown Miami and resulted in 231 arrests.

> Since then, at least 27 misdemeanors have been dropped,

> according to prosecutors' records last updated Dec. 2.

> Additional cases have been dropped or the charges reduced,

> according to MAD members.

>

> Two citizens' panels plan to hold a joint meeting Jan. 15 to

> hear comments and complaints about police conduct during the

> FTAA, and both Miami-Dade and Miami police are conducting

> internal reviews. Amnesty International, the AFL-CIO and the

> United Steelworkers of America all have called for

> independent probes.

>

> A Miami police spokeswoman said officers were instructed to

> make arrests only as necessary.

>

> MIAMI POLICE

>

> "We were told to deal with situations that were serious but

> we were always told to be very patient with people," said

> Herminia "Amy" Salas-Jacobson, a Miami police spokeswoman.

>

> "In the training sessions we were told to be professional,

> be patient and to do everything right. There was one thing

> that was stressed at every meeting: Always be professional."

>

> During Margolius' informal speech, he noted that he couldn't

> recognize officers because "everybody had riot gear on."

>

> "I hope the state has the good, common sense to deal with

> these cases in an appropriate manner, with an eye on

> justice," he added.

>

> Herald staff writer Charles Rabin contributed to this report.
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#2 Old 12-22-2003, 11:25 PM
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Sounds like the judge is an unethical liar with a political axe to grind.



Notice how easy it is to make unsubstantiated allegations?



Eh, from what I saw of the protesters while I was down there, seems they probably got what they deserved.



BTW cactus - do you get extra points for starting numerous pointless threads? Or does this count as "activism"? Don't you have some schoolchildren wearing crucifixes to harass?
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#3 Old 12-24-2003, 12:09 PM
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Those are pretty serious accusations. Keep in mind that the AFL-CIO is coming forward with some very similar claims. It is becoming harder and harder to marginalize this.
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#4 Old 12-24-2003, 05:21 PM
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Let's see...the judge witnesses "felonies"...and doesn't say anything about them until 2-3 weeks later?

Liar.
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#5 Old 12-24-2003, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

Let's see...the judge witnesses "felonies"...and doesn't say anything about them until 2-3 weeks later?

Liar.



A woman gets raped. Does not say anything about it for 2-3 years. Liar?



As usual, your post lacks any sense of logic or reason.
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#6 Old 12-24-2003, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus View Post

A woman gets raped. Does not say anything about it for 2-3 years. Liar?



I wouldn't believe her in most cases.



Quote:

As usual, your post lacks any sense of logic or reason.

Nope. A judge, supposedly a respected member of the community and a legal expert, sees felonies commited in person, yet makes no mention of it until in his courtroom. Ethically, he should have recused himself immediately as he was taking part in the demonstrations and obviously has a bias.



My response is quite reasonable. Of course, we have to keep in mind that your standard of reason says it is okay to ban religion and that suicide bombers aren't terrorists, so I will take your criticism as a compliment.
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#7 Old 12-24-2003, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

I wouldn't believe her in most cases.





Nope. A judge, supposedly a respected member of the community and a legal expert, sees felonies commited in person, yet makes no mention of it until in his courtroom. Ethically, he should have recused himself immediately as he was taking part in the demonstrations and obviously has a bias.



My response is quite reasonable. Of course, we have to keep in mind that your standard of reason says it is okay to ban religion and that suicide bombers aren't terrorists, so I will take your criticism as a compliment.

I date a women that was previously raped (it's verified) and she felt degraded, useless, and embarrassed. So if a women doesn't say anything until many years later it's understandable.



Oh, and, this retired (probably older) judge would lie for what reason. Oh, yeah, to embarrass the same police force he defended in court for 20 years or to get free media publicity oh, yeah, whats his name again? Oh no, I got it this time Hes just sexually frustrated with his wife and this is his way of venting.



I am guessing he came out weeks before this article was published and said something but the article failed to recognize it. So before we start calling people liars lets base our opinion off more than one article.



Oh, and incase you havent realized there is video footage circulating the net that is in-conjunction to what the judge said.
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#8 Old 12-24-2003, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

Nope. A judge, supposedly a respected member of the community and a legal expert, sees felonies commited in person, yet makes no mention of it until in his courtroom.



Ah yes, your ever illogical responses continue. To whom exactly was he supposed to report these felonies, given that the police riot in Miami was orchestrated by authorities at all levels



Obviously something like this requires a long-term investigation, and obviously he is one of the many witnesses who will be coming forward.
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#9 Old 12-24-2003, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

I date a women that was previously raped (it's verified) and she felt degraded, useless, and embarrassed. So if a women doesn't say anything until many years later it's understandable.



Very understandable, but as a juror, I would be hard pressed to find her testimony credible enough without supporting forensic evidence - which wouldn't exist.

Quote:

Oh, and, this retired (probably older) judge would lie for what reason. Oh, yeah, to embarrass the same police force he defended in court for 20 years or to get free media publicity oh, yeah, whats his name again? Oh no, I got it this time Hes just sexually frustrated with his wife and this is his way of venting.

Could be running for another office in the future...

Could have an axe to grind...

Could have political motivations...

Not reporting the incidents immediately, which is an expectation of an officer of the court, reduces credibility. It puts the accused at the disadvantage of dending against vague, "ghost" charges.



Quote:

I am guessing he came out weeks before this article was published and said something but the article failed to recognize it. So before we start calling people liars lets base our opinion off more than one article.



The fact that he made the statements in open court and did not recuse himself lessens his credibility. Funny, with all of the groups defending the protesters, wouldn't ya think he would have contacted them to make himself available as a witness? Odd they didn't report that, huh?



Quote:

Oh, and incase you havent realized there is video footage circulating the net that is in-conjunction to what the judge said.

Oh, boy. More "'net" footage. I'll have to get right on that...

The handful of protesters I met when I was down there (left the Tuesday of the protests) were looking for a fight. Sounds ike they got one - and lost.
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#10 Old 12-24-2003, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus View Post

Ah yes, your ever illogical responses continue. To whom exactly was he supposed to report these felonies, given that the police riot in Miami was orchestrated by authorities at all levels.[



Your precious "indy" press maybe?

How bout the attorneys defending the punks?

Hell, several reporters in the Miami papers were backing the protesters, how 'bout them?

Perhaps any method would have been more believable than making accusations in his courtroom, particularly in cases which he admits he should have recused himself from...

Illogical? Nice try, sunshine. Thing is, a judge has numerous avenues to make himself heard - he chose a method that makes it very reasonable to question his motives and integrity.



Quote:

Obviously something like this requires a long-term investigation, and obviously he is one of the many witnesses who will be coming forward.

*yawn*

Wondre how long it will take to get their stories straight?
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