Feminism and gender roles: discuss (split from what happened to understanding hubby) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-27-2009, 08:36 PM
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Last year when I was vegetarian for months my husband was ok with it. He even did not mind that most of the meals I made were meat free so we could all eat the same thing. He was happy as long as he could freely eat whatever he wanted when we went out. No problem, it worked for us. He was open to it and understood.



Now fast forward to one year later. Heaven forbid I serve a meal with out some sort of animal flesh. The kids don't mind and his grandmother does not mind but he acts like it is the end of the world. Oh and help us all if he finds a bean! The man LOVES pasta with marinara sauce and cheese, normally I would make it with meat (not for me of course) but to use up some leftovers I tossed in about 1/2 cup crumbled tofu and 1/2 cup beans and that way we could all eat the same thing. Instead of his normal chow down he ate a few bites and complained about it because it had beans in it. No one else complained. He used to eat beans, they were not his favorite food but he did not hate them. Now he acts like they are Satan in food form



I swear he is putting on this whole show for his grandmother's benefit. I can not think of anything that is different except for her being here and him wanting to be funny for her. It is not funny though, it is annoying.



Has anyone else experienced this with their significant other?





A husand must feel as if he is obeyed. You are making him look unmanned in front of his grandmother. If he does not like beans then do not feed them to him, it is simple. Do not cross him. Use your femininity and charms to bring him around - it is by these means that women really rule the roost while letting the man think they dominated. If he reviles your food, cry. If he compliments it, be extra loving. Soon he will be enjoying the food you want him to eat while thinking all the while it is his idea.
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#2 Old 07-27-2009, 08:42 PM
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A husand must feel as if he is obeyed.



If that was true mine would have kicked me to the curb a hell of a long time ago.
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#3 Old 07-28-2009, 08:08 AM
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A husand must feel as if he is obeyed. You are making him look unmanned in front of his grandmother. If he does not like beans then do not feed them to him, it is simple. Do not cross him. Use your femininity and charms to bring him around - it is by these means that women really rule the roost while letting the man think they dominated. If he reviles your food, cry. If he compliments it, be extra loving. Soon he will be enjoying the food you want him to eat while thinking all the while it is his idea.



While I disagree with any attempt at manipulation in a relationship on principle, and I disagree with this (and any statement) as a general statement about ALL men or ALL women...



I would say that I have found the MOST harmonious relationship comes from a place of deep respect.



And a lot of women, as far as I've seen, have taken the (wonderful!) idea of feminism as an excuse to be rude, demeaning, sarcastic, and downright disrespectful to their man.



And it's just disgusting.



I have seen countless couples (and, as a woman, I hate to bash my fellow girls, but....) and mostly the women, treat their man as garbage and think NOTHING of it. They think it's NORMAL and FUNNY and... Jeez, I'm getting ill thinking about it... At work, they sit with their friends and ***** and moan. I can't count the number of times I've hear phrases like "Ugh, my idiot of a husband..." or "And I'm just looking at him like, oh my God, what the hell is wrong with you?" Etc. etc. etc.



It makes me want to puke. I would never, ever EVER disrespect my boyfriend that way. And he would never ever do it to me. If there is ONE person on this planet who has absolutely NO business cutting a man down or emasculating him or making fun of him in public - it's his PARTNER. And for some strange reason, it's the partners I see doing it MOST! It's just disgusting, to me. If you have a problem with your man, bring it home, talk to him about it.



The way I think about it is this. Let's say I bump into someone on the street - a stranger. I'm going to stop, see if they're okay, smile, and show genuine care, and (EVEN if they bumped into me, or I thought it was "their fault") I would apologize. In fact, how many times have you guys bumped into someone and you've basically FOUGHT for responsibility!?!? "Oh, that was my fault, I'm so sorry!" ... "No, no, it was MY fault, I'M so sorry!"



Now think about it. When was the last time you saw someone treat their partner with that much respect, kindness, and compassion? When was the last time you saw someone say "My fault!" over something small, instead of fighting to the death about who was responsible, nitpicking each other, being snarky and cold, AS IF figuring out blame is going to make the situations SO much better that it's worth the emotional baggage of an argument...



It's just... I see so many couples who are kinder, more respectful, and more prone to understand the concept that "give and take" is WAY more important than "right and wrong" when it comes to strangers on the street... And all their nastiness, disrespect, and desire to be "right" is saved up for the person they are supposed to love. If the desire to "win" or "be right" is bigger than your desire to form a cohesive unit with your partner, there is a bigger underlying problem, there.



(Now, most of this was triggered by thinking about Princess Peach's comment, not your post. And I don't think it's wrong at ALL to ask people for advice about an issue. It's really just the outright man-bashing that burns me up. And you clearly came with a question in mind, not a ranting session, and I respect that. Anyway, this strangers-and-partners thing IS something that I've always found helpful to think about in my head when I go to my boyfriend with a problem. It helps me drain myself of useless anger that will do nothing but inflame a situation. It helps me focus and not be overly emotional. It helps me come from a place where I seek to understand, not seek to be right or make changes. And that's often when the most change happens, in my world. I would recommend a discussion with him, away from food and family, in an atmosphere that is relaxed and inviting for him to tell the truth. If a man thinks a woman is on the defensive, he might not open up, he will get defensive. Best of luck!)
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#4 Old 07-28-2009, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post

A husband must feel as if he is obeyed.



i wanna correct you on that. husbands from your culture & who practice your religion might feel as tho they should be obeyed, the rest of us men are usually just asking for some respect. big difference.
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#5 Old 07-28-2009, 02:03 PM
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My husband used to be open and understanding too . . . when he thought it was just a phase. He even agreed to stop eating all meat except fish. Now he's hostile about it, rubs it in my face that he eats meat, talks about eating meat all the time, and, in short, I don't like him much any more. I'm not going into details about my situation because I don't have any positive advice, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. If I were you, I would get into counseling before his hostility about this subject spills into other aspects of your relationship.



That must be hard. I don't blame you for not liking him anymore.





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Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post

A husand must feel as if he is obeyed. You are making him look unmanned in front of his grandmother. If he does not like beans then do not feed them to him, it is simple. Do not cross him. Use your femininity and charms to bring him around - it is by these means that women really rule the roost while letting the man think they dominated. If he reviles your food, cry. If he compliments it, be extra loving. Soon he will be enjoying the food you want him to eat while thinking all the while it is his idea.



What was that thing that just flew by Princess in a flash! Oh right, it was feminism!

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#6 Old 07-28-2009, 05:12 PM
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i wanna correct you on that. husbands from your culture & who practice your religion might feel as tho they should be obeyed, the rest of us men are usually just asking for some respect. big difference.



My culture is your culture. I do live in a Western society you know. I just refuse to live that lifestyle. I do not claim to be representative of "my religion" any more than any Christian can claim to be representative of that religion. Many Christians believe the husband must be obeyed, but not all.
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#7 Old 07-28-2009, 07:06 PM
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What was that thing that just flew by Princess in a flash! Oh right, it was feminism!



Feminism can be seen as the right for a woman to choose ANY lifestyle she wants without being judged.



I agree that not ALL men or ALL women should be crammed into ANY way of life.



But it is a step backwards in terms of women's rights to judge someone for her CHOICE or OPINION. I think we should celebrate the choices and opinions of all women, even if we don't agree with them. That's the entire point of feminism.



The way I choose to live my life might not meet with the approval of others. But I'm a feminist in the sense that I think I should be able to live it, without being told I'm "doin' it wrong" to use the grand internet language!
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#8 Old 07-28-2009, 10:30 PM
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My culture is your culture. I do live in a Western society you know. I just refuse to live that lifestyle. I do not claim to be representative of "my religion" any more than any Christian can claim to be representative of that religion. Many Christians believe the husband must be obeyed, but not all.



Maybe you are getting the word obey and submit mixed up which can have different meanings. And no, your culture is not our culture. Even most Christians are not that repressed.
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#9 Old 07-28-2009, 10:31 PM
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I am not repressed as I have chosen this life. I like being taken care of. It's a two way street.
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#10 Old 07-28-2009, 10:42 PM
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My culture is your culture. I do live in a Western society you know. I just refuse to live that lifestyle. I do not claim to be representative of "my religion" any more than any Christian can claim to be representative of that religion. Many Christians believe the husband must be obeyed, but not all.



you might be living in the west but your culture is not my culture. its nothing like it really. and i would say the same thing to any other religious [or oppressed woman] who said that her husband must be obeyed. you can obey your hubbie if ya want, but dont talk like that is the norm for all relationships cuz its not.
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#11 Old 07-28-2009, 10:48 PM
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I am not repressed as I have chosen this life. I like being taken care of. It's a two way street.



I can say I am very taken care of myself and actually a little spoilt by my husband. I don't need religion to tell me to obey or submit though or any stupid rules. I understand that you chose that lifestyle, but I still think you are repressed for living that life in such a small box. (and somehow I don't think you really chose that, but was the only thing you knew) of course that is where the cultural difference comes in.
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#12 Old 07-28-2009, 10:49 PM
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How many women these days get divorced though? They are unable to keep their husbands. That says something. Marriage is for life yet women lose their husband, can't keep their men, and wonder why. These same "liberated" women who do what they want when they want. Perhaps there is a connection there.
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#13 Old 07-28-2009, 11:05 PM
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How many women these days get divorced though? They are unable to keep their husbands. That says something. Marriage is for life yet women lose their husband, can't keep their men, and wonder why. These same "liberated" women who do what they want when they want. Perhaps there is a connection there.



Actually I have been divorced and I was the one who kicked my husband to the curb. He wanted the marriage to continue, but I sure didn't want that control nor abuse and never looked back.



You seem to have a one tract mind though. You are always blaming the woman for everything and never the man! But that is how you was raised. What makes you think a woman needs a man to function in society anyway? Divorce can be sad and if children are involved but it doesn't send one to hell. It's nothing but legal papers by our gov't.
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#14 Old 07-28-2009, 11:11 PM
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It's nothing but legal papers by our gov't.



That is untrue. It is a holy union before God of a man and a woman.
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#15 Old 07-28-2009, 11:17 PM
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That is untrue. It is a holy union before God of a man and a woman.



The problem peach is that you seem to speak your faith and beliefs as it's a matter of fact for the whole world. Not true.
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#16 Old 07-28-2009, 11:26 PM
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A husand must feel as if he is obeyed.

Some husband might indeed have a need to feel like that. But you can't make a statement like that about all men without being prejudiced.

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#17 Old 07-28-2009, 11:29 PM
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The problem peach is that you seem to speak your faith and beliefs as it's a matter of fact for the whole world. Not true.



yeah. im finding the way she presents her opinions as fact to be culturally insensitive and offensive.
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#18 Old 07-28-2009, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Semicharmed View Post

Feminism can be seen as the right for a woman to choose ANY lifestyle she wants without being judged.



I agree that not ALL men or ALL women should be crammed into ANY way of life.



But it is a step backwards in terms of women's rights to judge someone for her CHOICE or OPINION. I think we should celebrate the choices and opinions of all women, even if we don't agree with them. That's the entire point of feminism.



The way I choose to live my life might not meet with the approval of others. But I'm a feminist in the sense that I think I should be able to live it, without being told I'm "doin' it wrong" to use the grand internet language!



If I see a post on here that is not particularly feminist, I will have no problem making a judgment about it, so get used to that one.



And yes, feminism can be interpreted as the right for a woman to make choices, but not the kind of choices that work in direct opposition to the fundamental principles of feminist ideology. And choosing to obey a man within a relationship definitely does that. If you are living your life by those kind of rules, do not call yourself a feminist because it's nonsense.

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#19 Old 07-28-2009, 11:54 PM
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#20 Old 07-28-2009, 11:55 PM
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If I see a post on here that is not particularly feminist, I will have no problem making a judgment about it, so get used to that one.



And yes, feminism can be interpreted as the right for a woman to make choices, but not the kind of choices that work in direct opposition to the fundamental principles of feminist ideology. And choosing to obey a man within a relationship definitely does that. If you are living your life by those kind of rules, do not call yourself a feminist because it's nonsense.



Hrm... so feminism means that women are empowered and get to make their own choices, but only if they agree with liberal University bunny?
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#21 Old 07-29-2009, 12:20 AM
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Hrm... so feminism means that women are empowered and get to make their own choices, but only if they agree with liberal University bunny?



I beg your pardon?! Don't start getting insulting with me just because you've had your opinionated views called out.

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#22 Old 07-29-2009, 12:27 AM
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I beg your pardon?! Don't start getting insulting with me just because you've had your opinionated views called out.



How is that insulting you? You are not a liberal University bunny. You are telling others to listen to them.
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#23 Old 07-29-2009, 12:37 AM
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Hrm... so feminism means that women are empowered and get to make their own choices, but only if they agree with liberal University bunny?



Todd Palin can answer those questions.
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#24 Old 07-29-2009, 12:49 AM
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A husand must feel as if he is obeyed. You are making him look unmanned in front of his grandmother. If he does not like beans then do not feed them to him, it is simple. Do not cross him. Use your femininity and charms to bring him around - it is by these means that women really rule the roost while letting the man think they dominated. If he reviles your food, cry. If he compliments it, be extra loving. Soon he will be enjoying the food you want him to eat while thinking all the while it is his idea.



If my wife were to do this and I knew this was what she was doing, I would feel manipulated.



There are lots of men capable of realizing the woman they're with has her own opinions, makes her own decisions, etc. I am willing to bet her husband is such a guy and some open discussion might bring that out.
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#25 Old 07-29-2009, 12:56 AM
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How is that insulting you? You are not a liberal University bunny. You are telling others to listen to them.



So you're not insulting me you say, but you're calling other people who hold liberated views "liberal university bunnies". What about if we start calling you some derogatory names, maybe something like "oppressed, uneducated bunny". Are you happy with that?

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#26 Old 07-29-2009, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post

A husand must feel as if he is obeyed. You are making him look unmanned in front of his grandmother. If he does not like beans then do not feed them to him, it is simple. Do not cross him. Use your femininity and charms to bring him around - it is by these means that women really rule the roost while letting the man think they dominated. If he reviles your food, cry. If he compliments it, be extra loving. Soon he will be enjoying the food you want him to eat while thinking all the while it is his idea.







This isn't Stepford, sweetheart.
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#27 Old 07-29-2009, 04:51 AM
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How many women these days get divorced though? They are unable to keep their husbands. That says something.

It also says something that you think women have to keep their husbands and not the other way around or that both partners are responsible for the relationship.
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#28 Old 07-29-2009, 05:07 AM
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It also says something that you think women have to keep their husbands and not the other way around or that both partners are responsible for the relationship.



I think if you're in a romantic relationship, you should want to please your partner, period. That doesn't mean you can't have your own opinion anymore, it just means that you should be more likely to defer to your partners', or at least come to a compromise.



For the record, if my husband requested something different than what I was serving, I would not tell him to fix dinner himself - I would just not feed him something he didn't want. If I didn't like brussels sprouts and made my opinion on them heard, I would feel insulted if someone I loved deliberately served them to me anyway. It's like my opinion is being viewed as worthless.



This is just the way it is in my culture - if the men don't want something, the women don't serve it to them, and if the men request something special, it gets made the way they ask (children can sometimes take advantage of this too). On the other hand, if the wife is a vegetarian (hypothetically), she would make an omni meal for the family and fix something separately for herself.



Men will cook something special (like an extra well-done burger on the grill) if they are asked for pretty much anything. So if he is in charge of making dinner, he makes something custom for his wife if she asks.



It's really not about being submissive or demeaning ourselves. It's just a sign of respect.



And for my part, I'd love to just be a homeschooling Southern housewife.
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#29 Old 07-29-2009, 05:43 AM
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For the record, if my husband requested something different than what I was serving, I would not tell him to fix dinner himself - I would just not feed him something he didn't want. If I didn't like brussels sprouts and made my opinion on them heard, I would feel insulted if someone I loved deliberately served them to me anyway. It's like my opinion is being viewed as worthless.



This is just the way it is in my culture - if the men don't want something, the women don't serve it to them, and if the men request something special, it gets made the way they ask (children can sometimes take advantage of this too). On the other hand, if the wife is a vegetarian (hypothetically), she would make an omni meal for the family and fix something separately for herself.

I think men should learn to cook.

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#30 Old 07-29-2009, 06:45 AM
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I agree all men should know how to cook. My husband likes to cook and will make veggie meals even though he's an omni. Lately, though we each cook our own meals. I'll cook a veggie meal and he will make an omni meal for himself.

I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables, and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown
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