woolen clothes that save sheep - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 01-26-2009, 12:22 PM
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what a lovely idea. 500 sheep saved from slaughter to provide wool to make clothes.



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#2 Old 01-26-2009, 12:26 PM
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Lynn

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#3 Old 01-26-2009, 12:43 PM
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I think that ideally we should be able to care for animals without feeling the need to use them in some way -- ideally we would stop breeding animals altogether -- but I am glad that they are being saved from slaughter and probably live decent lives.

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#4 Old 01-26-2009, 01:28 PM
 
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Ditto that.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#5 Old 01-26-2009, 01:39 PM
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I'm glad that they got saved and get to live, but I'm sad that the only reason they got saved was to be used.
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#6 Old 01-26-2009, 02:18 PM
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well i'd rather be saved to be used than left to die! They need to have their wool sheared for their own well bieng. I dont think they could care less about what happened to it after that.
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#7 Old 01-26-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by luv4sheep View Post

well i'd rather be saved to be used than left to die!

Noone said otherwise.
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#8 Old 01-26-2009, 02:29 PM
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I wonder if the sheep were rescued first, or if she had the clothing idea first. You know what I mean?



I spin the wool from my rescued sheep and make scarfs and things for myself and family (dont worry, we are not "using" the sheep! It makes me happy to have a scarf when im at school away from them - its a little part of them and still has the sheepy smell).



I can see how you could easily start selling bits and pieces you make, save some more sheep (the money can help with feed, vets bills ect.) and sell some more until you are making a profit from the clothes. Not that anyone would want my boys wool as clothing! Its the roughest, scratchyest wool I have ever worn. I wear the scarf because it is from them, definately not because it feels nice! although it looks kind of rustic in a nice way I suppose Its probably because they are meat breeds so are bred to be big fatties rather than soft woolies.
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#9 Old 01-26-2009, 02:36 PM
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awwww the shephard who looks after the sheep turned vegetarian!



If you've spent time with true farmers, you will know how unusual this is!





and they have nice vegetarian shoes. I want the black flats.
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#10 Old 01-26-2009, 02:50 PM
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awwww the shephard who looks after the sheep turned vegetarian!

Thats awesome!
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#11 Old 01-26-2009, 03:15 PM
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I dont think they could care less about what happened to it after that.

That's not really the point of why I for example don't want to wear wool irrespective of the source, though.

"and I stand

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made of weak and useless men"

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#12 Old 01-26-2009, 05:09 PM
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I think its sad. Why can't people save sheep from slaughter because they deserve to live? Why must the sheep pay for their lives with the wool off their backs? If people didn't insist on keeping them in climates that made their wool coats torturous for them they wouldn't need to be shorn. Nor would they need to be shorn if people didn't breed them deliberately to overproduce wool.



I am glad the sheep were saved from slaughter, but I could never wear something made from their wool. It would be a constant reminder of how sad their lives still are.

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#13 Old 01-26-2009, 05:53 PM
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I think that ideally we should be able to care for animals without feeling the need to use them in some way



How many sheep are you taking care of right now?
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#14 Old 01-26-2009, 05:56 PM
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Wild sheep have no need for shearing. It's only domesticated sheep that need to be shaved down because the wool grows too much. It's our tampering with the animals that got them into this mess.

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
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#15 Old 01-26-2009, 06:20 PM
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Wild sheep have no need for shearing. It's only domesticated sheep that need to be shaved down because the wool grows too much. It's our tampering with the animals that got them into this mess.



If we didn't breed them to use them, they wouldn't need to be sheared "for their own good"
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#16 Old 01-26-2009, 07:21 PM
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Just what I need, ridiculously priced cardies. I'll keep it in mind if I'm ever starring in a British TV murder-mystery though.

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#17 Old 01-26-2009, 08:51 PM
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How many sheep are you taking care of right now?

This matters because ___________?

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#18 Old 01-27-2009, 02:39 AM
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wild sheep dont need to be shorn, true. Most farmers even realise that having long wool does more harm than good -if they had short coats, they would rarely get flystrike (although I have soays, which are pretty close to wild sheep, and many do live wild on st. kilda, and even though they shed their wool in summer Bennet has suffered from flystrike twice), and it costs farmers more to shear the sheep that they get for the wool.



I think that no matter what they are used for, as long as the sheep is saved and has a happy life thats a good thing. Maybe they were saved to be used, but without it that could be 500 dead sheep.



Wool is annoying, but those sheep were not bred for this lady to use their wool. The only way to stop the wool problem would to not breed at all (the best thing that could happen, although the sheep that do exist should still be saved) or to breed sheep without wool which is still breeding for meat, and so the purpose of the sheep bieng here would not change. You know what I mean.



I think this is a lovely idea.
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#19 Old 01-27-2009, 06:19 AM
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It is a lovely idea luv4sheep.Her prices are high so she can afford to look after these sheep, food, vetbills etc So shearing them helps them to live longer lives.They wouldn't survive if they were allowed to roam free.Hunters would be out in forces
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#20 Old 01-27-2009, 07:33 PM
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This matters because ___________?



Because you appear to be criticising someone who is rescuing sheep.
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#21 Old 01-27-2009, 07:48 PM
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"Never present criticism concerning anything you do not do yourself."

I'll print and frame that and hang it on my wall to use as a guiding principle.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#22 Old 01-27-2009, 10:16 PM
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Because you appear to be criticising someone who is rescuing sheep.

No, he is criticizing someone who is exploiting them, and using of the illusion of "saving" their lives as a marketing ploy. She's trying to pass herself off as a savior of doomed sheep, and selling the idea that her customers can also pretend that they are doing these sheep a big favor by purchasing overpriced items made from their wool.



After all, these sheep should be grateful that their lives were spared, and that there are humans around who feel like they are entitled to some monetary return for graciously saving these poor animals from the slaughterhouse. Since they aren't paying this woman back for her "generosity" with their flesh, they must pay with their wool.



And no, I have not rescued any sheep either. But if I am ever in a position to do so, you can be sure I won't expect "payment" for my generosity from the sheep.

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#23 Old 01-28-2009, 10:58 AM
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No, he is criticizing someone who is exploiting them, and using of the illusion of "saving" their lives as a marketing ploy. She's trying to pass herself off as a savior of doomed sheep, and selling the idea that her customers can also pretend that they are doing these sheep a big favor by purchasing overpriced items made from their wool.



After all, these sheep should be grateful that their lives were spared, and that there are humans around who feel like they are entitled to some monetary return for graciously saving these poor animals from the slaughterhouse. Since they aren't paying this woman back for her "generosity" with their flesh, they must pay with their wool.



And no, I have not rescued any sheep either. But if I am ever in a position to do so, you can be sure I won't expect "payment" for my generosity from the sheep.



In my eyes the sheep are not exploited at all! They can live their normal lives, and are sheared in the summer as they need to be. At this time the wool will be used to make clothes. The sheep really do not care what happens to it. They are just happy because they feel so much lighter and cooler instead of walking around in the heat wearing the equivelent to a duvet.



She is a saviour to doomed sheep. They were doomed to be killed in a slaughter house. She saved them. So what that they are saved for a purpose (that has no impact on their lives at all). Every single one would be dead now if it wasnt for her.



And I know this is not really an arguement, but wouldnt you want say yes if someone came up to you and said "right, you are going to die next week, and in a horrible cruel way. You have a choice -stay here and go to your death, or come live in a nice house for the rest of your life. The only catch is that everytime you get your hair cut, I will take the hair and sell it for my own benefit." They cant agree or disagree, but I know if they could they would want to go.



So what if she earns money? I know its come up on these boards before, about veggies working in mcdonalds, resaraunts and supermarkets that sell meat and stuff. Most people would think "well its bad, but they need money"

She is just making a living too. But from saving sheep rather than selling their flesh.
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#24 Old 01-28-2009, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by luv4sheep View Post

The sheep really do not care what happens to it.

The women used in sexist advertising may not care about their role in the ads either, but that doesn't show it's not objectification/exploitation.



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The only catch is that everytime you get your hair cut, I will take the hair and sell it for my own benefit."

This is not really comparable. Human hair is used for e.g. making wigs for people undergoing chemotherapy, but to my knowledge there does not exist an exploitative industry -- causing very real suffering, like mulesing does -- built around human hair.



The problem is that in order to move our thinking forward, I think we should learn to not always see animals through the lens of how we can use them. This way of viewing them has ****ed things up. That's a problem that exists for using wool even if it doesn't harm the sheep.



Again, I am happy they are saved from slaughter.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#25 Old 01-28-2009, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by luv4sheep View Post

She is a saviour to doomed sheep. They were doomed to be killed in a slaughter house. She saved them. So what that they are saved for a purpose (that has no impact on their lives at all). Every single one would be dead now if it wasnt for her.





You could say pretty much the same thing about egg factories or dairies.

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#26 Old 01-28-2009, 11:46 AM
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You could say pretty much the same thing about egg factories or dairies.



well not really. Egg farms and dairies, generally keep their animals in terrible conditions, esp. for chickens. And then they are killed young. It appears the sheep on this farm can live out their natural life span.



And they dont do mulesing in britain. Trust me, wool is generally an unwanted product now in britain. I think australian merino sheep are really mistreated, but most sheep in britain live a reasonably decent life (I know that doesnt make eating them right) while it lasts outside in fields.



I do understand that the mindset of people is wrong, and animals should have as much of a right to live as people whether they can give us anything or not, but in the meantime I think anyone who saves their lives (and I mean really saves them, not let them live outside for a bit before killing them) is doing a good thing.
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#27 Old 01-28-2009, 11:50 AM
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[QUOTE=Sevenseas]The women used in sexist advertising may not care about their role in the ads either, but that doesn't show it's not objectification/exploitation.



This is not really comparable. Human hair is used for e.g. making wigs for people undergoing chemotherapy, but to my knowledge there does not exist an exploitative industry -- causing very real suffering, like mulesing does -- built around human hair.

QUOTE]



Im sure I read something about people paying women in third world countries a very small amount of money to shave all their hair off, or telling them they were shaving the hair for an offering to god when actually they were made into hair extensions. It was really sad. but I guess it is nowhere near mulesing. I have never understood that - why breed sheep with folds of skin if you are going to cut them off for the sheeps "benefit". Its so cruel.
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#28 Old 01-28-2009, 12:00 PM
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Here's the problem. Anytime someone makes a living off of animal products, those animals become a commodity. If your business fails, your inventory will have to be sold off. If your business does extremely well, and brings the wool industry back to Britain, then you will have competitors trying to raise fancy sheep and undercut your price by taking shortcuts in the process.



Yes, perhaps these particular sheep are doing better than average, but using any animals for their hair, eggs, milk or muscle does none of them any good in the long run.

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
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#29 Old 01-28-2009, 12:54 PM
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In my eyes the sheep are not exploited at all!

There's more ways to look at this than from the point of view of the sheep only. This woman is taking something from them, without their consent, that isn't hers to take, and making money off it. That's exploitation. Saying that the sheep don't mind is just an attempt at rationalization.



I think anyone who is selling a product needs to have their marketing spiel questioned. Why should I believe this woman's claims that she has "saved" these sheep from slaughter out of the goodness of her heart when she is making money off them? How can any of us tell whether she really cares for sheep, or she is just a clever marketer, appealing to the new "compassionate" consumer niche of people who still want to exploit animals, but want to pretend that they are actually "helping" the animals by exploiting them kindly?



The bottom line is that this woman is trying to sell a product to people who might otherwise not buy it. If she really cared about the plight of sheep being slaughtered for their flesh, she would be more believable if she would stop supporting the view that sheep are commodities at all.

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#30 Old 01-28-2009, 01:53 PM
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There's more ways to look at this than from the point of view of the sheep only. This woman is taking something from them, without their consent, that isn't hers to take, and making money off it. That's exploitation. Saying that the sheep don't mind is just an attempt at rationalization.



I think anyone who is selling a product needs to have their marketing spiel questioned. Why should I believe this woman's claims that she has "saved" these sheep from slaughter out of the goodness of her heart when she is making money off them? How can any of us tell whether she really cares for sheep, or she is just a clever marketer, appealing to the new "compassionate" consumer niche of people who still want to exploit animals, but want to pretend that they are actually "helping" the animals by exploiting them kindly?



The bottom line is that this woman is trying to sell a product to people who might otherwise not buy it. If she really cared about the plight of sheep being slaughtered for their flesh, she would be more believable if she would stop supporting the view that sheep are commodities at all.





Without getting into a huge discussion over this, I think this is a gray area. Sometimes there is not a black and white. What "is" wrong and "isn't" wrong sometimes don't connect do what is "realistic" and "likely." At least this woman is on the right side of the spectrum.
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