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#1 Old 12-10-2007, 12:40 PM
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ok, so my dad had a girlfriend in highschool whom had been vegan since she was like 8 and she got pregnate and had a mis carriage, dad said that the doctor said she didnt have the proper protiens (sp?). Is this vegan related?
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#2 Old 12-10-2007, 12:44 PM
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No, you don't automatically have miscarriages when your vegan, you can have a miscarriage regardless of what you eat.
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#3 Old 12-10-2007, 12:50 PM
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Miscarriages can occur for a variety of reasons, and often it is unclear why. Those in the first trimester are often due to genetic abnormalities. Tobacco use, alcohol use, diabetes, obesity and a number of other factors can also increase the risk of miscarriage. However, I have never heard not having the "proper proteins" (whatever that means) or veganism cited as a cause.
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#4 Old 12-10-2007, 01:04 PM
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the american dietetic association says that a vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life, including pregnancy. http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg...3_ENU_HTML.htm



any woman can miscarry- its actually very common. i don't know how this doctor would have been able to say with any scientific certainty that a specific miscarriage was due to a lack of a certain kind of protein.
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#5 Old 12-10-2007, 02:00 PM
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are you sure he's not saying that just to scare you into eating meat?

I'm singin' here to get rid of fear
Hope it disappears right here with the rain
But I know life is pain, not like a fairytale
Meaningless to pray, so just goin' on my way
~Miyavi "Torture"
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#6 Old 12-10-2007, 06:22 PM
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I don't think that doctors can know what causes a miscarriage. Particularly early - -which, actually, now that I think of it, is what a miscarrige is. Later, it's a stillbirth.



This sounds like hogwash to me. What doctor would say 'proper proteins'?
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#7 Old 12-10-2007, 06:39 PM
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My brother's girlfriend recently had a miscarriage. The doctors don't normally know what causes them.
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#8 Old 12-11-2007, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFaile View Post

are you sure he's not saying that just to scare you into eating meat?



no he is very supportive of my diet, gives me a hard time about it, but no he wasn't. I've done alot of research on this, and I didn't think it was vegan related, but you know, just checking. It was along time ago, so he might of mixed up some things or something.
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#9 Old 12-11-2007, 10:02 AM
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i think its quite possible that the doctor put miscarriage and vegan patient together in his head, or even possible that he looked at her diet too, and then said 'not enough protein'.



but was he right, or was it an accurate diagnosis? probably not. most doctors have very limited nutrition training, and like everyone else, they sometimes bring their own biases and prejudices to work with them.



a healthy diet is important in pregnancy (and in life in general), but a vegan one can definately be that- and its unlikely he could really tell why she misscarried with a huge degree of certainty- he might have just been pointing the finger at what he thought from his own opinion was a problem that needed fixing (her diet).
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#10 Old 12-11-2007, 10:19 AM
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as others have said, miscarriages can happen for a variety of reasons. and, 50% of women miscarry on their first pregnancy anyway, so it pretty much happens to half of the population. I assume that your dad's g/f at the time miscarried her first pregnancy, which is fairly "normal."



but, that doesn't mean that veganism isn't necessarily a concern. a well planned, diverse vegan diet can be healthy for the average person in any stage of life (including pregnancy).



but there are areas that can affect fertility:



1. diet too low in calories: some folks go veg and simply don't eat enough. this can lead to a loss of fertility (a loss of menstruation which means also a loss in ovulation);



2. a diet too low in fat: fat is healthy for the body and helps make healthy cells and healthy hormonal balance;



3. a diet too low in cholesterol: cholesterol is important for thyroid and hormonal health, and while most people make enough on their own, some do not and therefore veganism may not be for them as it is basically cholesterol free;



4. a diet too low in diverse nutrients: many vegan groups give information about nutrient deficiencies such as b12, anemia, etc that can lead to other health problems including negatively affecting one's fertility;



5. a diet with too much soy: soy contains phytoestrogens which, when over consumed or if one is extra sensitive, can negatively affect the fertility cycle for some people, but one can be a soy free vegan if this is an issue.



Veganism isn't necessarily problematic to one's fertility cycle (ovulation, menstruation, and maintaining pregnancy). It can be, but if these things are taken into consideration when planning the diet, it shouldn't be a problem.
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#11 Old 12-11-2007, 01:22 PM
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zoebird, I'm getting increasingly irritated about your stance towards veganism and your spreading of mis-information on this forum.



There is no need for additonal cholesterol from animal products in anyone's diet.



Omnis can (and do) get an insuffiient variety of nutrients, and can (and do) develop anemia.



'Too much' of many things, especially animal products, can be detrimental to pregnant women. Isn't fish a no no for instance? There are plenty more dangers out there than soy!



Some links on the vegan diet and pregnancy:



http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/veganpregnancy.htm



http://www.vegfamily.com/vegan-pregnancy/index.htm



http://essenes.net/Vpregnancy.htm



http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren



http://www.amazon.com/Pregnancy-Chil.../dp/0961424826
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#12 Old 12-11-2007, 02:28 PM
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Jon:



i'm not responsible for your reactions. and i don't think you have any clue as to what my stance on veganism is. if you'd like to know it's this:



Veganism is a healthy, valuable, worthwhile dietary/lifestyle choice for many people. Not everyone can be vegan, but i think that for those who can, it would be great if they were.



There is no need for additonal cholesterol from animal products in anyone's diet.



This is simply not true. There are individuals who do not make enough cholesterol and thus need dietary cholesterol. For these individuals, veganism is not functional.



the way that the body regulates cholesterol is very interesting. people who have high or low cholesterol (rather than balanced) tend to have "broken" systems. Those with high can decrease their dietary intake for amazing results to their overall cholesterol levels and health. Those with low cholesterol must consume cholesterol-rich foods in order to maintain their health.



Omnis can (and do) get an insuffiient variety of nutrients, and can (and do) develop anemia.



absolutely! and, it's a problem for them as well. when i'm on a messageboard that isn't about vegetarianism, and we're talking about fertility health and miscarriage, i bring up anemia to them as well. And, i give suggestions on how to attend to that as well.



it's not so myopic, you know? but in this case, the question was about veganism specificly, and that these were areas regarding pregnancy/fertility and veganism that are of particular interest (and btw, many organizations like PCRM, etc, assert that these things need to be tended to in a vegan diet, just as they would be in an omnivorous one).
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#13 Old 12-13-2007, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Veggie View Post

...'Too much' of many things, especially animal products, can be detrimental to pregnant women. Isn't fish a no no for instance? There are plenty more dangers out there than soy!...



The things you can't have during pregnancy are:



Too much fish.

Certain kinds of fish.

Uncooked egg.

Many kinds of cheese.

Milk. (this is controversial, like everything surrounding milk - possibly leads to dairy intolerance.)

Peanut butter/peanuts. (same issue as milk)

Raw fish.

Any meat that is not super well-cooked.

Meat that is TOO well cooked.

Certain kinds of meat (patés, terrines, etc.)

Liver.



There is FAR FAR more evidence of the dangers of these things during pregnancy than soy...... but yet, no one points the finger at an omni miscarrying. Likely because the % of miscarriages in first pregnancy is actually closer to 75%, and is generally non-related to anything the mother does/doesn't do. I miscarried the first time I was pregnant, and I had been eating almost no soy, but LOTS of milk. The second time - no milk, lots of soy, and I now have a fat, healthy little girl.
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#14 Old 12-13-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Veggie View Post

zoebird, I'm getting increasingly irritated about your stance towards veganism and your spreading of mis-information on this forum.



yeah i gotta say i love the ignore feature



anywho i agree doctors tend to be misinformed and undereducated about nutrition.

good that your dad wouldn't try something like that, i just thought i'd ask before calling the doctor an idiot. unfortunately many are.

I'm singin' here to get rid of fear
Hope it disappears right here with the rain
But I know life is pain, not like a fairytale
Meaningless to pray, so just goin' on my way
~Miyavi "Torture"
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#15 Old 12-14-2007, 12:19 PM
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Sounds like a 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' situation to me. It's a common fallacy that means "after this, therefore because of this." People tend to apply causation to whatever is at hand. I've never heard of veganism causing miscarriages.
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