Is it bad to lie to a child about "Santa"? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 Old 12-08-2005, 01:48 PM
Veggie Regular
 
rainbowmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,204
I love Santa, I think its a great myth, and I don't know of a single child who is "scarred" or badly damaged from finding out that Santa is not real. I can remember asking my parents, I think I was about 8 or 9, if Santa was real. They asked me, "Well, what do you think?" and I said "No, I don't think so." My parents told me that Santa wasn't real, but that his spirit is real and something we can all believe in, and I understood that. When my sister was born that next spring, I got to 'relive' the Santa myth with her, and it was a lot of fun. I personally think its totally harmless and a lot of fun.
rainbowmoon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 Old 12-08-2005, 01:53 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Formerbaboon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyGoat View Post

Karen--I was SO upset about the tooth fairy too! That was the first one I found out about, and it bummed me out so much.





Oh, me too. I pulled out three teeth, because I wanted money. Didn't tell my parents. Put them under my pillow, and the next morning they were still there. I told my little sister, and she tattled to my parents. My parents were sitting on their bed, and they said "Adriane, we need to tell you something." I said, "Are you pregnant?!". They started laughing, and then said "No, there is no Santa Clause." I said "What about the tooth fairy?". "No." "Easter Bunny?". "No. NONE of them exist Adriane". I was really pissed off about the whole tooth fairy thing. I mean, I was 8.
Formerbaboon is offline  
#33 Old 12-08-2005, 01:59 PM
Veggie Regular
 
frenchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

I think that it's not a lie. I think that people get confused about the function and nature of myths and how they hold and delinate truths.



a lot of people think of 'truths' as 'facts.' Facts are only one type of truth. There are other types of truths that we do not consider facts. For instance, it is a fact that the sky is blue. For some, blue is considered beautiful so a blue sky is a beautiful thing. This is true, but not necessarily factual. If everyone agreed that blue skies were beautiful, then perhaps it would be 'factual.' but, that would be difficult to prove. the subjective nature of the truth of a blue sky being beautiful keeps it from being 'factual' but it is still no less true. it is simply 'differently true.'



The same is 'true' of myths and legends. i think it is important to share with children our myths, legends, and fairy tales. A child may take them literally for a time, and when they begin to see that these are not factual, you can still direct them to the truths of the stories--the morals, the reflections of one's own psyche and our cultural psyche as well.



i do not think that Santa is a 'lie.' Santa is a truth that is simply not a factual truth (though parts of it are based in facts or historical figures that then morphed into legend and from there morphed into myth). There's nothing wrong with explaining to a child that while Santa doesn't exist factually, he does exist as a spirit of giving, a spirit of love, and a spirit of joy. That we, ourselves, are Santas who can give these things to others.



I had an experience recently where i 'slipped up' around a child and the mother 'rescued' me. The little girl was explaining how santa left his gifts next to the fire place and how her mom put their gifts under the tree. And i said "my parents did that for me too!" and Mom 'rescued' me by saying "i think that santa puts the gifts there because i take up all the prime real estate. i put the gifts under the tree and the go to bed. when santa comes, he must think--where will i put the gifts? so, he puts them next to the tree because there's no space under it!" and i then added with "i always love my stockings best. Santa puts my favorite things in there--an orange, some chocolates, and usually a little game such as cards of jacks."



i was saved, because the little girl still hadn't moved from the magical thinking of believing in santa as a fact, rather than a legend.



My mother, on the other hand, builds my stockings--but it's "Santa" too. Sure, my mom is the hand of santa, or the helper elf, or whatever you want to call it--but she has such a heart and spirit for christmas and she really focuses on what to put in our stockings and what to bring us from santa. This is what i love most about christmas anyway.



the stocking that my mom spends time thinking about and being Santa. So there's no lie. Santa exists and he looks exactly like my mother's heart.

Very well said
frenchie is offline  
#34 Old 12-08-2005, 03:25 PM
Beginner
 
VeggieVixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 103
When I was little I was terrified of Santa... even if I had to go to the bathroom really, really bad, I would hold it because I was afraid I'd see Santa (and he would see me!) if I were to exit my bedroom.



I don't think I'd pretend with my (hypothetical) children that Santa is a real man that comes into the house at night.
VeggieVixen is offline  
#35 Old 12-08-2005, 03:57 PM
Veggie Regular
 
karenlovessnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Home Sweet Home
Posts: 12,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by berrykat View Post

what do you mean Santa isn't real???? He is real! He is !



Oops! Sorry, of course he's real, dear!
karenlovessnow is offline  
#36 Old 12-08-2005, 07:52 PM
Banned
 
VeganForHealth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 755
For the anti-Santa people, I have to ask. Do you teach your kids existentialism at age 5? ...How life has no meaning, and we all end up as worm food?
VeganForHealth is offline  
#37 Old 12-08-2005, 08:09 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I never really "taught" my kids that there was a real Santa, I just played the game with them. I never ever told my kids later that there was no such thing either. They just figured it out on there own, from school, kids, or wherever. I never had to take them to a shrink to this day either because they know that there is no such thing anymore. It is just fun when they are little to play with them about Santa. It made them happy! Just like the Easter Bunny and Tooth fairy, also. I just don't trip on these kinds of things. It is all in good fun. I remember I loved it too when I was a child when my parents played along with me about Santa.
GhostUser is offline  
#38 Old 12-08-2005, 09:01 PM
Veggie Regular
 
MollyGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu-N-Sprouts View Post

I'm definitely not a member of the "Santa Myth" club, my folks always presented him as a folk figure and story-book character but never "real" enough to come down our chimney or land on our roof - I still enjoyed the whole Santa thing at Christmas, sat on his lap at the mall, etc...



I've done the same with my kids - they love Santa stories and the magic of the Holiday season, but Christmas has many ways to make it magical without adding any fanciful stories that are later found out to be deception - no matter what you call it, in my house, when you tell someone something that they later find out not to be true/real/(whatever title you want to give it) - then you're telling a lie.



Big thumbs up to this post, T&S.



No offense, zoe, but your post seems like sophistry to me. Parents aren't presenting the wonderful legend of Santa as a cultural myth that kids happen to take literally, they are telling their children that a big fat man in a red suit comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve and leaves gifts for them. That is a lie, no matter how you spin it, or whether or not you believe it's right. There's a big difference in believing in Santa as a spirit of giving and a beautiful legend and believing in him as a flesh-and-blood man.



For me, it would be wrong to deliberately tell my children a lie in the service of "magic" or "fun." I think that is something adults often do to children, and most children grow up believing in a magical, friendly world that does not exist. To me, that's wrong. Understandable, forgivable, but wrong.



ETA: Kids love pretending. "Little House on the Prairie" was my favorite game a child even though I knew I wasn't really Laura Ingalls. I don't see why parents can't go all the rituals of Santa at Christmas as a fun pretend game with their children, rather than presenting it as factually true when it's not.
MollyGoat is offline  
#39 Old 12-08-2005, 09:36 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Qwerks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,573
I think Santa teaches adults that it's fun to lie to children.
Qwerks is offline  
#40 Old 12-08-2005, 09:39 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerks View Post

I think Santa teaches adults that it's fun to lie to children.



Just wondering if you do have children? Thanks.
GhostUser is offline  
#41 Old 12-08-2005, 09:55 PM
Newbie
 
Pugz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
ah, the santa thread... first off, thinking back as a child, it does NOT mess you up at all the slightest to find out you were lied to about santa...



but i remember once as a kid, me and my cousins, the night of december 24th, alone in our room, we discussed "santas coming tonight, whadda we all want? hmm, i dunno, i guess a football, soccer ball, and a robot..." what do we get 8 hours later? our parents didnt hear us talk either...
Pugz is offline  
#42 Old 12-08-2005, 10:24 PM
Newbie
 
glassgal79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 83
I think it can be a really special time for a very young child, but perhaps each parent should take personal responsiblity to tell their kids the truth when they become indivdualistic little people, maybe about six or seven??? I don't know, it's touchy. If one parents opts to tell their kids the truth, that child will surely tell all her little friends, which their parents may not appreciate. Hmmm.... Stumper. I personally want to be as truthful about everything as possible when I have kids, but Santa is definitely a tough call.
glassgal79 is offline  
#43 Old 12-08-2005, 11:16 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Mskedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,339
My parents were in the no-lying camp, so they never talked about Santa Claus. I heard about it from some cousins and some kids at school and thought everyone was pretty crazy to believe something so ridiculous, but eh...



What I don't like about Santa is that instead of instilling a feeling of giving, like I've seen mentioned here in this thread, it all seems to be about getting. Knowing that the presents I got were paid given to me by people who loved me and knew me is a lot better than having some random magical guy dropping stuff off for me. And we had a lot of financial hardships growing up, so there weren't presents every year, or sometimes the presents would be school supplies like erasers and paper, and we always loved Christmas because we knew that wasn't the point. I always got a lot more satisfaction out of watching my brother and my parents open the presents I got for them (that I would save up my allowance for months to get them) than I did getting my presents. I don't know that that would have been the focus had there been a Santa in my home.
Mskedi is offline  
#44 Old 12-08-2005, 11:28 PM
Newbie
 
Pugz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mskedi View Post

My parents were in the no-lying camp, so they never talked about Santa Claus. I heard about it from some cousins and some kids at school and thought everyone was pretty crazy to believe something so ridiculous, but eh...



What I don't like about Santa is that instead of instilling a feeling of giving, like I've seen mentioned here in this thread, it all seems to be about getting. Knowing that the presents I got were paid given to me by people who loved me and knew me is a lot better than having some random magical guy dropping stuff off for me. And we had a lot of financial hardships growing up, so there weren't presents every year, or sometimes the presents would be school supplies like erasers and paper, and we always loved Christmas because we knew that wasn't the point. I always got a lot more satisfaction out of watching my brother and my parents open the presents I got for them (that I would save up my allowance for months to get them) than I did getting my presents. I don't know that that would have been the focus had there been a Santa in my home.





wow, super cool post there, rock on!



with me, its ALL thought, and no gift, i usually dont care for the possesives anymore (unless i get a musical studio setup, the only material thing i care about, but no one aint neva gonna gimme that!), im just stunned and amazed that anyone thought of me that much!
Pugz is offline  
#45 Old 12-09-2005, 05:23 AM
Veggie Regular
 
karenlovessnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Home Sweet Home
Posts: 12,079
So, what I'm getting from this is, that maybe the way it was done back when I was little, and, therefore, how I did it when my kids were little, needs a little overhauling. Maybe the parents of today's generation could modify it somewhat so that the fun and magic of Santa is still there, but not make it an out and out lie. Focus on the myth thing. I'm not sure exactly how to do it, but that could be up to the individual. Sometimes we do things just because it's the way it was always done. But then as time goes on we feel the need to change it a bit. I personally would never take away Santa altogether, but just try to present it in a slightly different light. Just a thought. My daughter is getting married in June, so hopefully she will have a kid or two and I can discuss with her what her feelings on the subject are.
karenlovessnow is offline  
#46 Old 12-09-2005, 06:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
zoebird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyGoat View Post

No offense, zoe, but your post seems like sophistry to me.



Ok, so you're saying that i'm making an ingenous argument in order to decieve people? That doesn't make much sense. Why would i want to decieve people? Why would i make an argument regarding the myth and legend of Santa as being important and how does that decieve people? how is it an 'ingenuous argument?"



Essentially, it seems like you're calling me a liar, but i can't figure out why.



Quote:
Parents aren't presenting the wonderful legend of Santa as a cultural myth that kids happen to take literally, they are telling their children that a big fat man in a red suit comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve and leaves gifts for them.



Which parents? where? I think that this is a problem of the literalism, a response to modernism, and not an issue with my argument. If parents are teaching their kids about the literality of these things, then perhaps this is problematic.



But what if parents are simply telling stories, and children with their great imaginations and their naturally magical (pre-rational) thinking take it literally. Then, when they move into the rational phase, understand that it wasn't meant to be taken literally and then find another way to interpret and understand the same story that the parents are telling?



This applies to any story IMO. I remember meeting some asian, buddhist children many years ago who believed many things about the Lord Buddha that were obviously myth to me, obviously myth to the parents. Today, those children remember those things as myth. No one had to say "this is a myth" in the beginning--because it's functioning on different levels for different people and in different ways. That's how it's supposed to function--just as a parable is supposed to function that way, as is a fairy tale.



it's not a lie to say "here's the story of santa" or "here's the story of st lucia" or "here's the story of Jesus." it is simply a story. If one person takes it literally, and then later decides to take it figuratively--then that's normal, because that's the way that myth functions.



I do not see how this is a 'deceptive" argument.



Quote:
That is a lie, no matter how you spin it, or whether or not you believe it's right. There's a big difference in believing in Santa as a spirit of giving and a beautiful legend and believing in him as a flesh-and-blood man.



If a parent teaches the literality--often because they believe it themselves (like creationism and jesus walking on water as someone stated)--then this is not a lie in their minds, nor is it created or presented as a lie that they'll later turn around on. They may, later, understand these as concepts, as myths, and then they can transition with their children (or whomever else) into these new ideas about the stories together. And some never will.



I think that if a parent sets out to deliberately decieve, then sure, that's problematic. But, i don't think that a parent is necessarily setting out to decieve.



When Magnus teaches about "Treebeard"--a character in the Lord of the Rings--and brings him into the natural world as the caregiver of the forest, he's actually reflecting the "Green Man" or "Hermes" (in one incarnation) in a way that functions better for him (Treebeard) and he hopes for his son such that they both remember to treat the earth well and honor that which is natural and wild. It seems to me that Magnus isn't 'decieving' his son about Treebeard--as Treebeard does exist. But at the right time, the child will switch from "Magical Treebeard" to "Mythological Treebeard" and if that child is really lucky, it'll switch to "Treebeard Within" and then "Transcending Treebeard."



The problem isn't with the concept of santa or whether or not you simply tell a child a story and support where they are in their understanding and appreciation of that story, but whether or not the parents actually have a functional literacy about mythologies.



To me, a lot of the posts on here show a determined lack of understanding for the function and potency of myth at both the literal and later the figurative and then even later the transformative functions of these myths. For me, this is the real issue--and most of the posts in this post stream show a great misunderstanding of myth and perhaps the appropriate way to present them.





Quote:
ETA: Kids love pretending. "Little House on the Prairie" was my favorite game a child even though I knew I wasn't really Laura Ingalls. I don't see why parents can't go all the rituals of Santa at Christmas as a fun pretend game with their children, rather than presenting it as factually true when it's not.



Santa isn't a pretend game. I agree that it is a ritual, but a ritual isn't a pretend game. A ritual is a process by which an individual accesses the divine or higher self awareness. Of course, this awareness transcends all ritual, but rituals aid us in developing self knowledge. We are, afterall, "three dimentional" beings (body, soul/mind, spirit).



Using the santa myth and the accompanying gift-giving rituals, children and adults alike engage in a process of self reflection that occurs without effort because the ritual itself holds the focus.



It seems sad that people can't tell the difference between a fact and a truth, a deception and a functional mythos structure (which includes a time of literalism), and the function of rituals for self knowledge.



No offense, but your statements are false. Sure, if you knowingly decieve, that's a lie. But, if you are simply sharing a story and allowing the process of literalism to take root, to function for the child during that particual spiritual and mental developmental process, and then ushering and supporting the questioning and deeper understanding of the myth--all the way to the transcendent element--this is not deception, but an education in engaging the divine self through multiple modalities.



Sophistry my ass.
zoebird is offline  
#47 Old 12-09-2005, 06:58 AM
Veggie Regular
 
SystmDwnGrl2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,296
We don't do the "santa" thing. He's not banned or anything. I have addressed it pretty much the same way as TOfu N Sprouts. My mom really freaks out about the whole santa thing though. When I was a kid she was all about the santa...Last year, I got really angry with her. She told my son(we were at her place for christmas) that santa was going to visit him that night. He leaned over and whispered in her ear that, "It's ok, santa isn't real and that she didn't have to put out stuff if she didn't want to. She could just sleep instead." My mom flipped on him, it was the weirdest thing I have ever seen. She raised her voice, not shouting, but obviously angry and said, "Well Santa exists in my world and if you are going to be here for christmas you better start acting like it's christmas." Uh....that started an argument. ridiculous...



Anyways, I am not going to get into the whole argument about whether it is good or bad. Do whatever, it's not my business.
SystmDwnGrl2 is offline  
#48 Old 12-09-2005, 07:13 AM
Veggie Regular
 
vggiegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganForHealth View Post

For the anti-Santa people, I have to ask. Do you teach your kids existentialism at age 5? ...How life has no meaning, and we all end up as worm food?







Anyway I think kids need fun things to believe in when they're young. Before they grow up and realize the world is pretty crappy. I think the story of Santa coming down the chimney will be easier to take than the repo man coming through the window
vggiegirl is offline  
#49 Old 12-09-2005, 07:52 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Azalea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganForHealth View Post

For the anti-Santa people, I have to ask. Do you teach your kids existentialism at age 5? ...How life has no meaning, and we all end up as worm food?







I'm sorry, guess I forgot that you need to have religion in your life for it to be meaningful. my bad.
Azalea is offline  
#50 Old 12-09-2005, 08:16 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Azalea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganForHealth View Post

For the anti-Santa people, I have to ask. Do you teach your kids existentialism at age 5? ...How life has no meaning, and we all end up as worm food?



Certainly: one Christmas, when I was 5 years old, my parents called me over and looked at me sordidly, weary eyes peeking out under black berets. They blew Gauloise smoke in my face and told me "Child, you are nothing. Your life has no meaning" and handed me a copy of L'Etre et le Néant to read with great care.
Azalea is offline  
#51 Old 12-09-2005, 12:36 PM
Veggie Regular
 
MollyGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

Ok, so you're saying that i'm making an ingenous argument in order to decieve people? That doesn't make much sense. Why would i want to decieve people? Why would i make an argument regarding the myth and legend of Santa as being important and how does that decieve people? how is it an 'ingenuous argument?"



I think you're using semantics ("what's really true/real?" etc) to obscure facts, yes. In this case, the fact that parents who tell their children that Santa is real in the sense of being a true person who comes down their chimney to leave presents at Christmas are lying.



Quote:
Which parents? where? I think that this is a problem of the literalism, a response to modernism, and not an issue with my argument. If parents are teaching their kids about the literality of these things, then perhaps this is problematic.



Most parents who teach their children about Santa do this, including the parent you mentioned in your previous post. If you're telling your kid that Santa comes into the house and leaves presents under the tree, and someone can "slip up" by mentioning otherwise and have to be "rescued" or covered for, then clearly some deception is going on. Otherwise, what was that mother "rescuing" you from?



Quote:
But what if parents are simply telling stories, and children with their great imaginations and their naturally magical (pre-rational) thinking take it literally.



I've never known a single case of this. All the parents I've ever known tell the Santa story like this: "Santa is a fat man with a big white beard in a red suit who lives at the north pole and will fly in his sleigh to bring you presents at Christmas." That's a lie. That will not, in fact, happen. And it's way different than telling your children the story/myth of Santa as a myth. My father told me all the Greek myths when I was a child and he never presented them as facts that were relevant to my life. If I had been younger I might have "believed" in them, but I didn't believe that Hercules was going to come down my chimney and leave presents.



Quote:
it's not a lie to say "here's the story of santa" or "here's the story of st lucia" or "here's the story of Jesus." it is simply a story. If one person takes it literally, and then later decides to take it figuratively--then that's normal, because that's the way that myth functions.



OK, but parents (at least none that I know, and you haven't given any examples of parents doing that with Santa, either) don't do that.



Quote:
If a parent teaches the literality--often because they believe it themselves (like creationism and jesus walking on water as someone stated)--then this is not a lie in their minds, nor is it created or presented as a lie that they'll later turn around on.



I don't know of any parents who believe that Santa leaves their children presents. They are all aware that they do it themselves.



Quote:
I think that if a parent sets out to deliberately decieve, then sure, that's problematic. But, i don't think that a parent is necessarily setting out to decieve.



You don't think that the mom in your anecdote was deliberately deceiving her daughter when she talked about Santa putting the presents next to the fireplace?



Quote:
When Magnus teaches about "Treebeard"--a character in the Lord of the Rings--and brings him into the natural world as the caregiver of the forest, he's actually reflecting the "Green Man" or "Hermes" (in one incarnation) in a way that functions better for him (Treebeard) and he hopes for his son such that they both remember to treat the earth well and honor that which is natural and wild. It seems to me that Magnus isn't 'decieving' his son about Treebeard--as Treebeard does exist. But at the right time, the child will switch from "Magical Treebeard" to "Mythological Treebeard" and if that child is really lucky, it'll switch to "Treebeard Within" and then "Transcending Treebeard."



Totally different. Magnus doesn't seem to be claiming that Treebeard is interacting with his child when it's really him.



Quote:
To me, a lot of the posts on here show a determined lack of understanding for the function and potency of myth at both the literal and later the figurative and then even later the transformative functions of these myths. For me, this is the real issue--and most of the posts in this post stream show a great misunderstanding of myth and perhaps the appropriate way to present them.



I believe in myth and the function of myth. I also believe that myths can function without outright lies and deception.



Quote:
Santa isn't a pretend game. I agree that it is a ritual, but a ritual isn't a pretend game.



Fine--a ritual then. You can have the ritual without the lie.



Quote:
No offense, but your statements are false. Sure, if you knowingly decieve, that's a lie.



BS. Telling your kid "Santa is a fat man with a big white beard in a red suit who lives at the north pole and will fly in his sleigh to bring you presents at Christmas. Those presents under the tree are from Santa, not mom and dad"--that's a lie. That's a deliberate deception. If you think that's good and functional and awesome, OK, that's fine. I don't care if other parents lie to their children about Santa. But let's call a spade a spade here.
MollyGoat is offline  
#52 Old 12-09-2005, 07:22 PM
Veggie Regular
 
slynny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,647
I guess I don't care if people choose to create great stories about Santa.... and I think a lot of people go way overboard. What I think is ridiculous is that a lot of these people are the same Christians putting up signs in there yards ( Keep Christ in Christmas).
slynny is offline  
#53 Old 12-09-2005, 07:33 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Marie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,153
Is it lying to tell kids that stores have locked boxes for bad kids.. so they better be good or the store person will stick them in one?
Marie is offline  
#54 Old 12-09-2005, 08:42 PM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie View Post

Is it lying to tell kids that stores have locked boxes for bad kids.. so they better be good or the store person will stick them in one?





If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.



<<<Laughing his ass off at the folks on their high horses about not lying to kids.
Tame is offline  
#55 Old 12-09-2005, 09:15 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Skylark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 15,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyGoat View Post

I think you're using semantics ("what's really true/real?" etc) to obscure facts, yes. In this case, the fact that parents who tell their children that Santa is real in the sense of being a true person who comes down their chimney to leave presents at Christmas are lying.



I shortened your post to quote it because it was so long, but I absolutely loved this post.



Santa was never presented as literally real to me. My parents' logic was that they didn't want to lie to us knowingly, and there was little benefit to the ruse. The most annoying part was that I was sworn to secrecy that Santa wasn't a literal being! When the neighbor kids talked about all the presents Santa would bring them, I was under strict orders by my parents to pretend not to hear them and change the subject.



I'll never forget the Christmas when I was about nine, and my grandparents labeled all the presents from them as "From Santa." No one believed in Santa in our house, so it just ticked me off. Being the little bugger I was (and still am, just taller), I took a marker when no one was looking and scratched off "Santa" and put "G & G" (for Grandpa and Grandma). Then I got in trouble.

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
Skylark is offline  
#56 Old 12-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.



<<<Laughing his ass off at the folks on their high horses about not lying to kids.



Yeah, I mean really! If you have not experienced kids, then you do not know how you would act like in this time. I used to be on a high horse before I had kids, thinking that, I would never do this or that. But it is oh so silly now to me. My kids are older, but my step-daughter still believes, so we will keep that fun tradition in our house. We help carry on generations of fun Christmas times.
GhostUser is offline  
#57 Old 12-09-2005, 10:10 PM
Veggie Regular
 
MollyGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post

I'll never forget the Christmas when I was about nine, and my grandparents labeled all the presents from them as "From Santa." No one believed in Santa in our house, so it just ticked me off. Being the little bugger I was (and still am, just taller), I took a marker when no one was looking and scratched off "Santa" and put "G & G" (for Grandpa and Grandma). Then I got in trouble.



That's funny.



Quote:
Originally Posted by goettling View Post

Yeah, I mean really! If you have not experienced kids, then you do not know how you would act like in this time. I used to be on a high horse before I had kids, thinking that, I would never do this or that. But it is oh so silly now to me.



There are plenty of parents who don't tell their kids that Santa is real, so I don't see why it's "silly" that I plan not to, and that I think it would be the wrong choice for me.



And why is it a "high horse" to say that telling kids Santa is real is a lie? Whether you believe it's right or not is something entirely different. But it is a lie. You might think it's a positive lie, you might think it's a negative one. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a lie. My issue is that some here are trying to pretend that it's not.



Quote:
We help carry on generations of fun Christmas times.

Just because I won't lie to my kids about Santa doesn't mean that I won't carry on fun Christmas traditions. There are lots of those, if you haven't noticed. I still love Christmas even though I haven't believed in Santa since I was about 8.
MollyGoat is offline  
#58 Old 12-09-2005, 10:52 PM
Banned
 
Tame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,022
MG - just one question...

Exactly how far up your ass did the man in the Santa suit jam that candy cane?
Tame is offline  
#59 Old 12-09-2005, 10:52 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyGoat View Post

That's funny.







There are plenty of parents who don't tell their kids that Santa is real, so I don't see why it's "silly" that I plan not to, and that I think it would be the wrong choice for me.



And why is it a "high horse" to say that telling kids Santa is real is a lie? Whether you believe it's right or not is something entirely different. But it is a lie. You might think it's a positive lie, you might think it's a negative one. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a lie. My issue is that some here are trying to pretend that it's not.





Just because I won't lie to my kids about Santa doesn't mean that I won't carry on fun Christmas traditions. There are lots of those, if you haven't noticed. I still love Christmas even though I haven't believed in Santa since I was about 8.



I was not talking to you, but now I am. If you read my post above I never told my kids that there was one or was not one. I just played the game. They learned it from school or elsewhere. It is a fact that Santa will still be around this time of year, no matter what, and kids like it. Like I said, I used to say that "high horse" thing before I had kids thinking that I would not raise them this way or that, ect. But when you are a parent, you will fall off of that high horse and see. Until then, no one can judge.
GhostUser is offline  
#60 Old 12-09-2005, 10:59 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

MG - just one question...

Exactly how far up your ass did the man in the Santa suit jam that candy cane?



I think she said she was 8! Maybe a bad parent, I do not know.



I think it is still so darn silly that people get so worked up over Santa, when they have no children! I used to say the same thing, but as a parent, you take pleasure in your kids having fun! I never lied nor did I have too!
GhostUser is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off