I have some questions about open marriages and open relationships.



I am hoping that people who have such relationships will indulge me by answering my questions. I realize they are taking a risk by answering these questions as VB is a culturally diverse forum and not everybody easily accepts that different people do things differently.



So, .........thanks in advance for your thoughts .



Now for the questions.



Why did you choose an open relationship? Would monogamy have been significantly difficult for you in terms of the quality of your daily life?



Do you have children? Would you continue an open relationship if you had children?



Is your relationship open to "extramarital" emotional fulfillment as well as sexual fulfillment on the side?



Do you or your partner get jealous? How do you handle jealousy? Are you able to handle jealousy such that it is 100% settled with all of the bad feelings gone?



Do you feel lacking as a person when your partner find fulfillment emotionally and/or sexually with other people?



Does your partner get to meet and know your dates? Your boyfriends, girlfriends?



Do your relatives, friends, coworkers know about your open relationship?



Since you are committed to your SO, what do your dates, boyfriends, and girlfriends get out their relationship with you?



Do they ever feel like they are just a hobby to you or in a second class relationship with you since you do have permanent partner?



If your relationship also acknowledges emotional polymory, then what is the rational in having a marriage if you are free to seek emotional and sexual fulfillment with others? Is that your partner fulfills you the most such that you both want to make the sacrifices to stay together as a pair?



Do you and your partner actively look for dates as opposed to having an open policy towards people who just happen to cross paths with you in your lives?



Do people you approach for dates turn you down because you are married/partnered?



Thanks for indulging my curiously.

I know a couple who are openly in a polyamorous relationship, but it is not "open".



I am really interested in this topic.



I am not in an open relationship but as a child I was around families in which the parents were pretty free to do whatever with whomever, whenever, as a couple and individually. Two of them are divorced now. One, I have lost touch with ages ago and have no idea. They were pretty "far out" people, as far as the general population is concerned, anyway. The ones I lost touch with lived in a cave with a sliding glass door in the winter and teepees in the summer. (irrelevant, but intersting )



It would be really interesting to talk to their kids now. I am pretty sure the family I was most involved with (I babysat for their kids and my parents were friends with them) was really open with thier kids. They were open with me and I was a kid.



Sunny

http://www.uupa.org/



http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html



I do draw a disctinction between a polyamorous relationship (involving love) and just sleeping around with whoever one wants to just for the fun of a moment. So, depending on what you mean by "open"...

I know a few open couples. I don't think I could answer those questions for them though. I am in a strictly monogamous relationship.

Renaissancesun pointed this thread out to me - I'm not really a full-time poster here, but I seem to be fairly qualified to answer on this thread.



Let's see what I can do with this. As a bit of background; I am 29, married to my high school sweetheart. We have been together solidly since we were 16 & 17 years old. This year we will celebrate 12 years "together", 9 years married. We became polyamerous just before we got married, so our marriage has ALWAYS been open, but it was prefaced by 3.5 years of solid monogamy.



Why did you choose an open relationship? Would monogamy have been significantly difficult for you in terms of the quality of your daily life?



I had always had thoughts about multi-partner marriages since before I can remember. I heard the phrase "If you love someone, set them free" early, and the idea stuck with me to the degree that it seemed backwards and contradictory to say that since you truly loved someone, you had to keep them all to yourself.



I COULD be monogamous, and have been in the past. I have never cheated, on anybody. I have a very strong loyalty streak in me that has prevented that. But I am happier and feel more "natural" when I am allowed to express and develop feelings for people other than my husband.



Do you have children? Would you continue an open relationship if you had children?



No, we have no children and do not plan on having any. We would continue to be open if we did, but things would definitely be a little different.



Is your relationship open to "extramarital" emotional fulfillment as well as sexual fulfillment on the side?



Absolutely. Not to brag or anything, but my husband is fan-frickin'-tastic in the sack, I don't NEED sexual fulfillment from anybody else. I sure do enjoy it though. But yeah, the main focus is on the relationship, on forming a loving bond, prefferably for a long-term relationship. The longer-term the better, in my books.



Do you or your partner get jealous? How do you handle jealousy? Are you able to handle jealousy such that it is 100% settled with all of the bad feelings gone?



Sure, jealousy is natural and it happens to everybody sometimes. BUT, it does not have to be an overwhelming force. It can be guided. Communication is the great jealousy-killer. Issues come up and have to be dealt with, but I'm happy to report that we are able to calmly discuss the problem. I hate hurting my husband, that is NEVER my intention, so if something is bothering him I'm never reluctant to fix it. 99% of our jealousy issues spring from poor time management - "I expected to be able to spend time with you tonight like we usually do, but you weren't here, and I was lonely." Clear, open, honest communication is the solution, paired with a willingness to be flexible and cater to the needs of your partners.



And yes, once an issue is settled, it's settled. We don't stop until we both are happy with the solution.



Do you feel lacking as a person when your partner find fulfillment emotionally and/or sexually with other people?



Hahaha...absolutely not!! I am THRILLED when my husband has a girlfriend. It puts an extra sparkle in his eye, and an extra spring in his step, and believe it or not makes him extra fun in bed. People gain energy from new romance, and that energy my husband gets from his girlfriends always comes home to me, too. I love seeing him get all twitterpated over a new girl. It's cute, and charming, and sweet, and reminds me all over of when he and I first fell in love. It doesn't threaten me one bit, it just takes some of my time with him away. But it's not a big deal, as soon as I miss him I just have to tell him and he's all mine for as long as I need him to be.



Does your partner get to meet and know your dates? Your boyfriends, girlfriends?



Absolutely. My husband is an EXCELLENT judge of character, and sometimes when I'm all excited about someone new I miss warning signs. So I do my best to get my husband's opinion on someone before I feel too attached, just in case my "other set of eyes" catches something I missed.



Do your relatives, friends, coworkers know about your open relationship?



Friends all do, some coworkers (who I consider friends) do, and just a couple relatives know. I'm about to "out" myself to my mom as both bisexual and polyamerous though, we'll see how that goes. She & I don't always get along so good anyway, so it should be interesting.



Since you are committed to your SO, what do your dates, boyfriends, and girlfriends get out their relationship with you?



I can kinda draw an analogy - say you have a best-best-best-best friend who has known you for years and who you love & trust completely. Does that preclude any other friendships?? Maybe you will never find another friend that is quite as compatible with you - does that mean your other friendships are not worth persuing, or are somehow less worthy? Would you avoid becoming friends with someone just because you knew they already had a long-term best friend that you could never replace?



So what do they get? They get love, affection, fun, deep friendship, support, hugs and kisses and romantic nights alone, long phone calls, help with their kids, recipe swaps, the occasional weekend alone on the coast, a shoulder to cry on, a companion to celebrate with, someone to share their life story with... insight, compassion, empathy... another layer of protection between "us" and the cruel outside world...



Do they ever feel like they are just a hobby to you or in a second class relationship with you since you do have permanent partner?



Not just a hobby, ugh, that's a pretty distasteful thought IMO. How could a person be a hobby? I hope to the gods I've never made anybody feel like a hobby. "Second Class" gets harder...anybody who dates me has to understand up front that my husband must come first. If I don't sense that the person fully understands and is okay with that situation, then I cannot in good conscience date that person.



So what works best for me, is if my boyfriend or girlfriend is ALSO married or involved with one or more people. I am most comfortable when we are both in that "secondary" position with eachother, because there is a nice natural balance that way. My current girlfriend, for example, is also very happily married and has a 9month old son. She has a VERY busy life, so she only has a little time here or there available for me to be there in person. (It's a fair journey, so when I go, I stay a full day & spend the night, and she works 6 days a week...) We keep the bond going by frequent phone calls and emails. We definitely miss eachother in between visits, but it's not unbearable. And in the meantime, I am VERY glad to know that she's not lonely when she's away from me. She has a great husband who loves her to pieces, and that makes me sleep very good at night.



If your relationship also acknowledges emotional polymory, then what is the rational in having a marriage if you are free to seek emotional and sexual fulfillment with others? Is that your partner fulfills you the most such that you both want to make the sacrifices to stay together as a pair?



Well, I firmly believe that my husband is my soulmate. He and I bonded together extremely tight and neither of us have any desire to let that lapse. We fully intend to live together until the day we die, and hopefully we'll die on the same day 'cause neither of us want to be apart. If we have any say in the matter, we'll reincarnate together too, lol. So why not get married, and enjoy all the benefits? My husband is my constant, he is ALWAYS there in my life. Others may come and go...but he and I will always be toghether. We ARE married in our hearts & souls...I don't know how else to describe it, LOL.



Do you and your partner actively look for dates as opposed to having an open policy towards people who just happen to cross paths with you in your lives?



Ehh...kinda depends on how busy our lives are and just how the fates work things out for us. If one or the other of us finds we have a lot of spare time and the right someone hasn't crossed our path yet, we look around a bit.



Do people you approach for dates turn you down because you are married/partnered?



I have not yet had that problem, probably because I'm female. My husband, on the other hand, has. I think single women percieve a married guy who's flirting as a creep no matter what he says. I know cheaters often tell their girlfriends that their wife is "okay" with it, so he can't even really say that without looking like a philanderer. For him what usually works out best is for him to put a move on someone who is a friend of ours already, who has seen our relationship in action and will hopefully have a more accurate view of what it's all about.



Okay, and now I have to head out of town for work for the day. I'll check up on this thread when I get back. Feel free to comment & question as honestly as you wish; I'm quite open (and flame-proof) in this regard.

This may overlap some of the other questions - Do you ever have a problem with your husband comparing you to his girlfriends, or you comparing him to your boy/girlfriends?



Do you only have outside relationships with other women? Why or why not?



Thank you for being so open.

I just wanted to say thanks to Coop for answering those questions so candidly. I would like to answer these questions too, but at this point I don't have the time and my husband and I in a little bit of a relationship funk right now because (like Coop said) of poor time management.

i'm really sorry that i can't answer these questions from personal experience--but i have feelings similar to the way Coop described her relationship. A lot of her world-view is similar to mine--and in fact i have used many of the same words.



i also don't like the idea of a 'second class' relationship, but in a way it sorta works out like that. I'm fully bonded to my husband and can't really imagine being away from him. the very concept of his dying just rocks me to the core--but i also know that i have the strength to survive it should it happen. same goes for if he needs/wants to leave our relationship.



But, truthfully, i would fully support a 'second' relationship with another man or woman if he were to have one. I do not knwo if he would reciprocate--to him the very concept of another man touching me is a big deal. When i teach yoga, i touch a lot of men, after class, a lot of men touch me (hugs, etc). he gets jealous--and he knows that nothing is going on!



it really points to what coop said about how her husband sparkles when he's in another relationship. I consider frienships similarly. I remember in law school when i made two friends--cindy and shannon. They're both great gals and they are different from me. they were/are older and closer in age to each other. they knew each other before they knew me. they were both already married (i was engaged). they lived closer to each other.



one day, they were talking about how they had dinner together and then studied. they didn't invite me because they knew/know that i lived about 45 minutes from school, whereas they lived only 20. It wasn't to be mean or anything. I was a little saddened and felt excluded. Then, i realized that they were friends and that they might like to enjoy each other's company *without* me. And that there were times when i hung out with just cindy or just shannon and that was fun too. So, i started to look at it as "these two women are my friends, they are also friends with each other. their relationship with each other makes each of them a better person, a better friend. This makes our relationship better then, because each one is enriched by her relationship with the other, the relationship that doesn't include me."



So, i would percieve any relationship that ryan would have--friend or otherwise--as a relationship that enriches him as a human being, makes him a better person, and therefore enriches our relationship. I often encourage ryan to hang out with his friends without me (and trust me, it takes convincing). I want him to have time with the guys because the dynamic *is* different when i'm around. this gives him the opportunity to have an enriching relationship, making him a better person, and thereby enriching our relationship.



So, to me, if he wants to have a 'second' relationship that is both emotionally and sexually satisfying with a man or a woman, this relationship can only *enrich* our relationship.



i get jealous of ryan's sleep for goodness sakes. it really does come down to time management. we're both so very busy right now--and i feel like he's not taking the time to do some things that i need. i find it very frustrating. but, we're working on it. it's not like the relationship is in jeopardy.

wow

that's an interesting thread

Well, a little comparison here or there is only natural. But the kicker is that nobody ever fully outclasses someone else, at least not yet. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses, ... Hm... Kinda like it probably is for parents with a couple kids. You can't HELP but compare them to some degree, but that doesn't mean you want them to be identical. Differences are good, they are to be enjoyed and cherished. Know what I mean?



There has been an occasion or two when my husband or I learned something NEW with a boyfriend/girlfriend...something fun, something kinky, or an "OMG, he did this and it made me go crazy!" kind of a thing...we love to bring that home and share & teach eachother whatever new "tricks" we've learned. It doesn't seem to ever make either of us jealous or weird...I've THANKED my husband's girlfriends before, LOL. He's amazing, but you can never have too many good tricks up your sleeve.



I have relationships with men or women. In fact, this girlfriend is my very first! I've been bi-curious for a long time, so now I've finally found who I think is the "right" girl. (Heck, she's even a Vegan, how perfect does it GET?) My husband is straight, so it's women only for him. He does like the idea of me dating a woman better than me dating a man, it's easier for him to get over those little "weird" moments with the other person being a girl. Plus I know he's got hopes and ideas for himself, hahaha. But he has always known and gotten along fine with my past boyfriends, even sending christmas presents & such. And I'm still friends with most of the guys, and it's no big deal, we're all just friends now and it's totally cool.



And now, I'm going to go lay down for a bit and rest my sore neck... I was in a car accident on my way to work, some idiot plowed into me and totalled my car.

coop, i really admire you and your husband for making polyamory work.

i have to admit that my husband and i "tried" polyamory many years ago. we tried and tried. for two years. but we just couldn't get past all the jealousy that cropped up. i guess we were both still too insecure. i know i am. it would drive me BANANAS to see my husband having hot sex with a woman who had a "hard body", compared to mine, yk - not to mention getting his emotional needs met by someone who is, like, more "together" than i am. because i can be a basket case. heh.



but i have often also felt that these long term monogamous relationships are kind of weird...that we are expected to never have (or at least, never admit to) feelings for anyone else that we find attractive or enjoy spending time with. and then, what's worse, is having all these feelings and then having to quell or stifle them or hide them, creating inner turmoil and guilt.



anyway, i just wanted you to know i appreciated you answering all those questions so succinctly and, and i hope that you're feeling better soon.

This is really interesting reading, although I don't think an open relationship would work for me personally for a variety of reasons. One thing I always wonder about when talking about open relationships, as well as cheating, (although I realize they're completely different) is where do people find the time and energy? Mybe it's just that I'm a low-key person, but I can't imagine having more than one serious relationship going on at once. Are those of you who have open relationships very extroverted and high energy to begin with? Come to think of it, I don't understand how some people manage to maintain even non-sexual friendships with many, many people...

I don't know. I think that one of the things I feel comfortable with in my current relationship is that we can say we have a little bit of a crush on someone. However, time and energy are limited quantities so we make the choice not to take it beyond a crush.

I have seen a few relationships involving more than two people, and they do seem to work, they just don't work in the same way as monogamous relationships. And they are rarely if ever egalitarian.

I read that you and your husband still have your "weird" moments with jealousy but you two seem to react to that sort of thing as a minor thing......not as one of the top tragedies of life. Most people could not even bear the thought of their partner being emotionally and/or sexually fulfilled with someone else.



You have mostly gone beyond one of the top human attachments.



I am not sure that I could ever do that or would want to do that, but I recognize it as an achievement worthy of respect as well as admiration. What an incredible freedom and an incredible level of unselfishness.



It reminds me of a coworker I knew in college who was so totally bisexual that she told me ( and meant it ) that a person's sex had no bearing on her. She fell in love with a person for who they were and then had sexual relations with them with it not mattering what their genitalia they had.



Again, a way that I could never be, but one I could see as a pretty cool and elevated way of being.



Hey wow, thanks for the informative and interesting post Coop!

That is a very interesitng comment. If you cared to expand upon it I would be glad to read it

Well...in my case, my hubby doesn't LIKE hard bodies, so there's not much worry there, haha. And I have my basket case moments too. Of course I want to feel like I'm hotter than the women he's interested in but sometimes I know that's just not the case. But...I dunno, it somehow doesn't bother me. If I care to think about it, I'm sure I could find other areas in which I am the superior. But it just doesn't matter, I don't think of her as competition. I am more likely to feel proud that my husband can catch such a good looker! LOL I firmly believe that no other woman will ever posess the same combination of traits that make me such a perfect match for my husband. And why would he leave me, when he can have us both? LOL



9 years later, and so far the theory is sound.

Well, I *am* kinda outgoing and I call myself a "social animal". I like spending time & effort on my friendships. I don't tend to have a LOT of friends at once, and I only ever have had one bf/gf at a time...I tend to focus on deeper friendships with fewer people.



I'm not really high energy, I don't think...but romance (and yeah, to be honest, sex) is an amazing motivator.

Wow...I think I'm blushing! I dunno if I can really accept all that praise, but thanks!!



It's just kinda how I am...I can't take a lot of credit for becoming this way...I am lucky, I guess.



I'll accept credit for being able to brutally and honestly communicate with my husband though, THAT is the bit that really took work and conscious effort for me. My childhood was not an especially happy or trouble-free one and I learned to just pretty much never share anything with anybody. I think I've gotten the hang of it pretty well now, but it was definitely a struggle at the beginning.



But it's paid off in ways I can't even list.

FWIW, I remember reading last year that "The Farm" commune in Tennessee as in "The FARM Uncheese Cookbook" and "The Farm" that Barb Bloomfeld.......author of "Fabulous Beans" comes from started off as a polyamourus socialist commune.

Well, of the ones I've seen a couple have involved one man who either has a main girlfriend yet sleeps with other women using the whole "My favorite dessert may be chocolate pudding, but occasionally I want a little cake" rationale, (which doesn't work so well in the long run) or one man who has a few permanent girlfriends who know about each other and live in relative harmony. I know one guy with 4 girlfriends who has been with them all for years and they probably get along better than most people. So it does work for them. But it isn't an equal partnership, nor can it be. I mean, it's kind of like a teeter-totter. You have to have one on each side to make it even. Any more or less, and the equality is lost. He, as the one common denominator, is the one who has the power. But believe it or not, he doesn't have a big ego about it. And I think that's how he makes it work so well, if you know what I mean.



That's the best one that I can reference. Others I know of have only worked for a few months to a year at best, but no one was really bitter about it in the end, so I'd say they were just as successful as your standard one on one relationships. I don't think I could personally handle it though honestly.

Maybe not being poly people we are a bit like virgins talking about sex, but I think the equality issue may go beyond number of partners, as that seems like a flexible issue.



I am not sure how I would feel being a non-primary partner/boyfriend.



I would know.......explicitly........that I would always be #2 to the person I was involved with.



On the other hand, that could be a good thing if you found yourself in a phase of your life where you didn't wanted needed the emotional bonds you would get with a partner, but you wanted to stay detached so you could move on. I guess

the modern slang "friends with benefits" would fit. Though in this case with the openness and honesty there might be less chance for people getting hurt.

ryan and i spoke about this a bit yesterday as well, just as a form of ideas or concepts.



we went back to the friendships comparison to see how it would apply. Ryan has been best friends with Tony since he was 4. They just 'go back' and there's an comfortable intimacy and short hand between them. Over the years, both have grown and changed a lot, but they still care for each other, spend time together, and consider each other 'best friends.'



In graduate school, 10 yrs ago now, Ryan met Eric. Over the past ten years, Ryan and Eric have become very close friends. Ryan spends a lot of time with Eric and cares about him greatly. They consider each other "best friends.'



But, their relationships are very different. Ryan told me that with tony, there's always a deep understanding and acceptance of each other, but not necessarily a close working knowledge of the modern man (the man who exists now), whereas with Eric, who has only known Ryan as an adult, there is not so much of an understanding of the past, but definately a deep acceptance of the present AND the push for each of them to become better men in general.



So, Ryan says that he cares about Tony and Eric equally, but he also cares about each one differently--and the relationships are drastically different.



WHat he would see in a polyamorous situation is something similar. There's Ryan and Jenifer--which is like Ryan and Tony. And then, there's Ryan and X. The relationship are just as important, but they are different. Neither one is a 'second' per se, but there must be an understanding that the relationship with Jenifer is just as important as the relationship with X, and that the relationship with X is as important as the relationship with Jenifer. So, ultimately, there's this place where both relationships have to come into balance.



Also, i think the way that these relationships become egalitarian is when both parties are free to have other relationships. I have seen relationships where men will have 'open marriages' but as soon as their wives/girlfriends have 'open marriages' (ie, get a boyfriend/girlfriend), they freak a bit. I think these sorts of things are about male power and not about really, free exchange and so on. But, in a lot of instances, this isn't necessarily the case.

I should say too, that there's not really "one" way to do polyamoury "right".



I am good friends with a couple where the husband is straight and the wife is bisexual, and she is allowed to have girlfriends. He doesn't date anybody, and she doesn't date men. They are happy with that arrangement, it works for them.



My husband and I are each allowed to date whomever we wish, of either gender (well, he's straight, lol) so long as we never do anything to endanger the relationship that he and I have together. He prefers I date women, but doesn't object or get huffy if I date a man. We stick our noses into eachother's relationships regularly (we're both always very curious, and it's fun to kiss & tell a bit), and tend to get to know eachother's SOs (significant others) very well, and become close friends with the other person.



Our SOs *are* "secondary" though...much as I hate and loathe that term. It's not that they're second-class people, it's just that the relationship is second in line of priority. Not all poly couples run this way, but this is how it is most comfortable for my husband so this is how we do it. For now. In the future, who knows, it may change....we are still evolving as human beings and our relationship(s) evolve with us.



Since I am married, when I am looking for a relationship, I am looking to be the 'secondary' to someone else. I want to know that my lover is being loved when I'm not around. I want them to never feel lonely or left out. I want them to feel loved 24/7. I want them to never have to sleep alone just because I'm not there. In short, I want them to have all the wonderful things I have with my husband, too.



If I were single, however, that would be a different story. It just depends on what the other person's needs & wants are, if they'll be able to be happy in that secondary role. It is not for everyone, that is for sure. That is why I had to break up with my last boyfriend, in fact. He was single other than me and thought he could hack it, but I could tell he was becoming less and less happy as the NRE (new relationship energy) wore off. So I pulled back into simple friendship and encouraged him to find a lady he could have all to himself, and now, lo & behold, he is dating a wonderful new lady who is about to move in, they'll probably be married before the year is up. He & I are still good friends, and thankfully his new lady is not jealous of my friendship despite our past relationship, so I'm on the way to becoming friends with her, too. He & I will probably NEVER be lovers again, and that's fine with me. He's happier this way, and that makes me happy too.

i think an important, operative part that you added in there--ok, two of them--were these:



1. each couple is different, and

2. you and your marriage relationship is also growing and changing, so it may change and be different later--different than it is now.



so, i think that's important. i think i would have more problem with ryan having girlfriends than having boyfriends. but, he's not bisexual. i'm not either. in a way, it kinda sucks for us. But, i was thinking about f-to-m trannies and thinking. . . hmm, could i go for that? there's a super cutie at the downtown center. he's young, pre-operative, and so super cute. Ryan thinks he's super-cute too. Hmm. some things get me thinking. . .



oh, and he (trannie) knows that we both crush on him. . .it makes him giggle.