I was thinking how it seems like there is a lot of male bashing going on around the internet.



It occurred to me that when men have a bad date, a bad relationship ... etc a man is likely to think "wow, what a loser she was........life goes on" whereas a woman who gets mixed up with a loser will generalize her experience into........."all men are pigs".



Then as I was reading some women's responses to other women's "male bashing" writings it occurred to me I was generalizing as well. There were responses from several women pointing out, diplomatically, gently, to the author how they have seen various behaviors in both sexes and that maybe the author of the male bashing writings is seeing things only through the lenses of her own experiences.



If men in a public forum started generating with a lot of "Are women ____?" threads accusations of chauvinism, sexism, stereotyping, and bigotry would fly....with a lot of heat....as well as with some justification.



I know from my own personal experience that is very easy to get caught up in a cycle of complaining .



I think some people just get up in such cycles not being aware that they sould like a bigot, or that they are making themelves miserable. After a while you have to fix your fix problems, not just whine about them, no matter who created them for you or you will never be free. Plus you make yourself frustrated by whining. Things start to look worse then they actually are

I think if I saw some names and links and specifics I might be able to comment more. I don't really know what you are talking about. Perhaps I haven't been paying attention? I don't feel any male-bashing on this board, and I am a man. But then again, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.



I would like to see example. Perhaps then it would not just be an academic exercise; I might have a good reason to get pissed. And that is fun.

I think that might violate the policy of this board.

It would? It wouldn't be like the people who read it would have their minds made up by what you quoted.



How about some links to some threads?



I just don't know what you are talking about when you talk about sexism towards men. I know that it exists, and I think I know what it looks like when I see it, but I just haven't seen any here.



It is hard to make a point when there isn't any evidence (or it is hidden in hollow diplomatic words).

No, but the internet is a small place and "going there" is something that may be frowned upon by the people who run VB. I like the way VB is run and what it delievers so I like to respect the spirit of those rules

You lost me there.



...but if something more concrete pops up, or if I see something on the boards, I will be sure to call it out on the spot, or at least try to.

I don't doubt you in saying that sexism against men happens on this board. I just don't know how to help or what to say or even how to sympathize when I haven't seen any of it.

BWF - feel free to provide a link via PM.

I have asked him not to refer to specific situations. It's not too hard to figure out.

right on.




How are we supposed to address it if we don't know what he is referring to?



If it is so easy, then it should be more obvious. If it is that obvious, then a link won't do too much harm, especially if it is PM'd.

beforewisdom: Well, I don't know. I have met many men who turn their bad experiences in relationships with women into broad generalizations of women. So I don't think that you can say that women are alone in making sexist generalizations.

I think the only reason men get bashed on more is the age old "never hit a girl" attitude that women need special protection. When Andrew Dice Clay tried to turn the tables on the man-bashing fad in comedy a few years back, you see how they crucified him.



Personally, I don't think it's such a big deal. There are those who have chips on their shoulder and those who don't. I try to focus on people who don't have prejudices against me (for my gender, or any other reason) and ignore the rest.







The Rev

That is an interesting viewpoint. I never saw ADC as setting out to that with those intentions.



His more main stream stuff was funny, but audio tapes I heard of his off the grid routines sounded very hateful........imho.

Both genders can exhibit sexism towards the other.

from my experiences women and men are definetely tied when it comes to sex based generalizations

But men come out way ahead when it comes to how those generalizations affect how they live their lives, what types of jobs and promotions are available, what type of pay they will receive for a given job, whether or not they will be beaten by a family member, etc.

"Women should stop complaining about men until they get better taste in them."



-Bill Maher

(paraphrased)

Nail..........head...........direct hit..........bang!

absolutely

Do men really come out ahead? For the same work experience, men don't seem to make more then women at the same job[1]. As a reward, we don't get equal paternity leave for maternity leave.



Men are less likely to graduate college/highschool then women. Men are more likely to be incarcerated for crimes. Men even die earlier. Speaking of health issues, guess who's more likely to be diagnosed with ADD/ADHD.



As for the legal system, there is gender bias in child custody cases, in sexual assault cases and in domestic abuse cases. While physical strength, size and culture does result in more man to woman violence, occasionally men are physically or sexually assaulted and the legal system, more often than not, does little or nothing. Take the famous case of a certain teacher sexually assaulting her male student -- she got parole for the first offense!



In short, being a guy isn't all fun and roses.



(Oh, and a woman keeps calling me "sweatheart" at work! Agghhh[2])



[1] My figure says women make $.97 - $1.01 for every $1.00 that men make if the experience is the same. Women tend to make drastically less then men because women are in lower paying jobs.



[2] I do have a client that calls me "sweatheart", but this seems to be her term for any young man. (I just told my wife about this: She told me that she thinks the client in question thinks I'm cute. I told my wife that I'm going to sue for sexual harassment -- she snickered.)

Uh, not in the United States. Men and women have the same federal right to have their job protected if they leave to care for a newborn or an ill family member. Very few jobs have paid maternity leave.






And any of this is systematic opression by women? Because most of the problems women complain about (lower wages, violence against them etc) are the result of systematic opression of them by men.








Your figure is from? Women are in lower paying jobs because they are discouraged from getting graduate degrees in high paying fields, are passed over for promotions, and are given a different job title for doing the same job.

Reread his point and the quote he was responding to. It wasn't about any "systematic oppression" from women, it was focused more on the idea that "men come out ahead".