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-   -   Is porn vegan??? (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/16-veggie-patch/203601-porn-vegan.html)

Berry Happy Vegans 02-23-2016 07:56 AM

Is porn vegan???
 
Someone recently mentioned to us that the ultimate goal of veganism is NOT JUST to save animals, but rather to protect the well-being of all sentient beings on earth. In our opinion, there are many groups other than those that produce food that also promote suffering, and the porn industry is one. As vegans, we feel it is our moral imperative to speak out against any cruelty that takes place on a regular basis. What do you think? Please watch our recent video and let us know your thoughts!


silva 02-24-2016 06:24 PM

It comes down to informed consent. non-human animals, minors, those impared, cannot give consent. So yes, porn is often vegan
Your comparisons don't even make sense to me.
You guys don't come across as very happy!

Kiwibird08 02-24-2016 06:39 PM

IMO most mainstream porn involving consenting adults watched by adults harms no one. Some people enjoy sex, fetishism and exhibitionism and others enjoy watching it. Who am I (or anyone else) to say that it is wrong for consenting adults to act out a fantasy or call each other derogatory names is wrong?

Not ALL porn is ethical though- that which involves minors, venerable adults incapable of consent or animals, that resulting from taking advantage of a persons situation in life and that done without consent (such as someone secretly filming sex or releasing a tape that was intended to be private).

Crouton 02-24-2016 06:44 PM

Same as the others, porn between consenting adults is vegan. Porn including minors or non-consensual acts it's disgusting and horrible, and likely not vegan.

silva 02-24-2016 06:48 PM

Do you realize how many people out there are exhibitionists? They get off doing public displays as much as others enjoy watching.

I want veganism being about freedom and acceptance, not repression

BlackBoxed 02-29-2016 05:22 AM

While it was a well put together video, most of the comparisons you tried to make were, I thought, irrelevant. First lets start with one side of porn. In the Adult Film Industry most sex workers are freelance. They have the say of when they do a job and they reject the jobs they don't like. Contracts typically work the same as they would in a modeling agency and even then most allow you to say no if you're uninterested in working a job. Basically what I'm saying is they're not anymore slaves to their jobs than that nurse who sometimes just wants to stay in for the day and watch Netflix.

Before I bring up the point of a porn user's possible suffering, I'd like to touch on Dopamine for a second. It's a chemical that exists in everyone, don't make it something it isn't. To try and oversimplify a very complex chemical I'll put it like this: if your brain was made up of telephone wires, Dopamine is the transmit signal of a pre-designed response to pleasure (happiness!). You see or think of a bowl of banana ice cream, you know it will taste good so you want it, then you eat it, then you feel really really good about having eaten that banana ice cream. Anything you can get pleasure out of is Dopamine. In fact, you even get Dopamine from watching those adorable animal videos on youtube...

Porn is just a platform of entertainment and only has the amount of value that YOU put into it. It helps to aid a sexual stimulus; nothing more nothing less. Like all things ending in satisfaction, it can be entirely abused and it's the responsibility of the user to know the limits. Sound familiar? (... is to video games is to gambling is to working out is to sex is to ice cream is to cocaine is to...) Because we constantly seek what makes us feel good, and too much of a good thing isn't always good.

As far as the racism point you made, I don't see the connection. What I do see with varying amounts of porn is the normalizing of taboos which would in fact open someone's mind to new ideas (and if you're against consenting 'taboo' wouldn't you be the close minded one?).

To say it's not ethical is one thing, to say it's not vegan is another.

Muttley 02-29-2016 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silva (Post 3920345)
Do you realize how many people out there are exhibitionists? They get off doing public displays as much as others enjoy watching.

I want veganism being about freedom and acceptance, not repression



but that doesn't make a good youtube Clickbait title like using the words "porn" and "vegan". Gotta get those Views, likes, subscriptions through whatever means necessary! >:D


needless to say I didn't watch the video.

Ad Elie 02-29-2016 07:49 AM

I might be slightly off topic but when I think about porn at first I don't imagine those movies. All that shiny flesh and terrible soundrack make me sick. I'm slightly disappointed that when people speak about porn on the internet, it's videos.
I'm having much more fun with comic books and I have no doubt those can be considered vegan if we don't dig too deep (yes forests, pigments and blah blah blah your computer kills apes).

silva 02-29-2016 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muttley (Post 3923961)
but that doesn't make a good youtube Clickbait title like using the words "porn" and "vegan". Gotta get those Views, likes, subscriptions through whatever means necessary! >:D


needless to say I didn't watch the video.

I often read your instagram as porncaptain!
Wonder if that gets you more hits! :laugh:

Thalassa4 04-08-2016 01:05 PM

It depends on the group or individual vegan philosophy. A lot of feminist vegans, Hare Krishnas, and Christian vegans would tell you absolutely not, because like you say, pornography is a form of exploitation and the overall spiritual or philosophical goal there is peace and respect for all living things - the sacred dignity of life.

Other vegans, such as those here, would say since humans can give consent it's still vegan. HOWEVER, I would say that in no case is violent or degrading porn vegan even from that perspective. A lot of people who are anti porn argue that the consent is often nothing but the result of financial desperation - but that's not always the case. It's a tough subject from an ethical standpoint.

Spudulika 04-10-2016 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalassa4 (Post 3946273)
A lot of people who are anti porn argue that the consent is often nothing but the result of financial desperation - but that's not always the case.

Quite.

I've only known a couple of prostitutes (I understand prostitution isn't exactly the same as porn, but it can often be a route into the business) in my life. They didn't do what they did out of "financial desperation" but because it payed a lot better than other jobs and they frankly had more fun doing it (including party drugs, drink and travel perks) than doing desk jobs or shop work.

There is obviously a lot of exploitation that goes on in the sex industry however. Though I'm not sure that vulnerable people wouldn't continue to be exploited if a legitimate porn industry didn't exist.

I would prefer to keep these kinds of industries legal and controlled: both because consenting adults should be entitled to do with themselves and their bodies as they choose and because vulnerable people will hopefully therefore be less liable to exploitation by the black-market operations that would inevitably exist.

Dave in MPLS 04-10-2016 03:36 PM

An interesting (and relevant!) fact: the Bloodroot collective put out a few cookbooks (the first is ovo-lacto vegetarian, the next few are vegan, the in print collections are split into books of ovo-lacto recipes and vegan recipes). One of them has, in place of an introduction, a longish anti-porn essay. I think it's in one of the Political Palate titles. (My copy is in storage a few hundred miles away :(, so I can't check)

silva 04-10-2016 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in MPLS (Post 3947257)
An interesting (and relevant!) fact: the Bloodroot collective put out a few cookbooks (the first is ovo-lacto vegetarian, the next few are vegan, the in print collections are split into books of ovo-lacto recipes and vegan recipes). One of them has, in place of an introduction, a longish anti-porn essay. I think it's in one of the Political Palate titles. (My copy is in storage a few hundred miles away :(, so I can't check)

Their introduction has everything to do with their personal views of feminism and not veganism. I remember getting a veg cookbook written by monks that had a highly spiritual link in its introduction for their vegan motives. That doesn't mean being vegan is part of spirituality.
Just as all vegans are vegetarian, not all vegetarians are vegan.
Exploitation is all about the using those who can't willingly give consent, so of course exploiting those in financial distress, or against their will would not be compatible with vegan philosophies.
I think most people are so repressed sexually they feel guilty, and dirty, and jealous of those who feel free.
Just because you don't like how others are doesn't mean you need to judge them when they're not causing harm.
Kinda like how vegans feel when judged by most of society...

Aliakai 04-10-2016 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry Happy Vegans (Post 3918593)
Someone recently mentioned to us that the ultimate goal of veganism is NOT JUST to save animals, but rather to protect the well-being of all sentient beings on earth. In our opinion, there are many groups other than those that produce food that also promote suffering, and the porn industry is one. As vegans, we feel it is our moral imperative to speak out against any cruelty that takes place on a regular basis. What do you think? Please watch our recent video and let us know your thoughts!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq-7ZEd5-wg

I feel like porn generally involves consenting adults and that a better video would be on human trafficking rather than porn. Most attacks on porn are sensationalist in nature and I feel this video is the same. Especially when you consider the feelings of exhibitionists!

Kiwibird08 04-10-2016 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudulika (Post 3947249)
Quite.

I've only known a couple of prostitutes (I understand prostitution isn't exactly the same as porn, but it can often be a route into the business) in my life. They didn't do what they did out of "financial desperation" but because it payed a lot better than other jobs and they frankly had more fun doing it (including party drugs, drink and travel perks) than doing desk jobs or shop work.

Interesting you bring this up. I know a few strippers who would be more than able to get a different job, yet they like the money, they like the attention and they like flaunting their body. Who am I (or anyone else) to tell them they shouldn't be strippers? Consenting adults getting naked for other consenting adults is not my business or problem. I feel similarly that prostitution should be legalized and regulated, just like the porn industry and exotic dancing.

peacefulveglady 04-10-2016 09:20 PM

You still need to be careful with Porn , i am kinda into it sort of however, i am very discerning what and how i watch it... If its too much a money maker professional i would just stay leary of it... .

Dave in MPLS 04-11-2016 10:57 AM

Quote:

Their introduction has everything to do with their personal views of feminism and not veganism
Of course. Although placing it at the front of a vegan cookbook at least suggests the authors saw a connection.

Quote:

I think most people are so repressed sexually they feel guilty, and dirty,
That is a HUGE part of the psychology of pornography, although when we start talking about "repression" we get into Freudian analysis (which I'm not a huge fan of). But dirty and guilt ridden, yeah, that's sort of the engine driving the whole thing.

Auxin 04-11-2016 04:20 PM

Some times putting something in a book is done just because its a convenient opportunity for them.
I have a book on food fermentation that talks about homosexuality, but playing with pickles never made me like guys more than I already do ;)

As for porn, I see vegan porn all the time.
The shape of a zucchini is no accident, you know. Someone wanted it to be that way :p

Thalassa4 04-11-2016 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudulika (Post 3947249)
Quite.

I've only known a couple of prostitutes (I understand prostitution isn't exactly the same as porn, but it can often be a route into the business) in my life. They didn't do what they did out of "financial desperation" but because it payed a lot better than other jobs and they frankly had more fun doing it (including party drugs, drink and travel perks) than doing desk jobs or shop work.

There is obviously a lot of exploitation that goes on in the sex industry however. Though I'm not sure that vulnerable people wouldn't continue to be exploited if a legitimate porn industry didn't exist.

I would prefer to keep these kinds of industries legal and controlled: both because consenting adults should be entitled to do with themselves and their bodies as they choose and because vulnerable people will hopefully therefore be less liable to exploitation by the black-market operations that would inevitably exist.

I completely understand your point of view. However, the intention was to point out that there are many different kinds of vegans - not all vegans are socially liberal or libertarian. In fact while some feminist vegans are very liberal in every other regard -even rigidly so- they consider pornography and sex work antithical to their entire philosophy, in which they would include the vegan principle of doing the least harm...this applies to some spiritual or religious reasons as well.

So I don't think anyone can say this is or isn't vegan, tbh. One of the most anti-porn people I've ever encountered is vegan, and she would likely tell you she saw the two things as rationally congruent, in her overall philosophy.

Naturebound 04-12-2016 04:20 AM

I did a google scholar search for "porn and violence" and found quite a few articles. Unfortunately most of them you have to pay for or have a subscription to read fully.. :/ There doesn't seem to be a definitive study that shows porn leading to violence of a sexual nature, but I couldn't help but think of this when I see the word "porn". Having had terrible sexual experiences and experienced violence in the past myself, it is very hard for me not to see porn in a negative light. I know some very mentally unstable people who also like to look at porn, and one shared once with me that he fantasized about doing things to me while I was tied up (and he was quite descriptive and detailed). Thankfully this was someone I knew online and who didn't live close by. I don't know, do mentally healthy people with positive sexual relationships and experiences still look at porn? I would love to know this.

On a lighter note, when I was seven years old and my sister was ten, we discovered a book my Mom had hidden in the house called "The Joy of Sex". We snuck it to school and it was circulated around until a teacher got hold of it lol. Us kids were completely fascinated by it and my sister and I were popular for a short time. The teacher found out the book came from my sister and I, and we were in BIG trouble lol. Some would have considered that book porn, but to me it seemed so healthy and beautiful, because it depicted two consenting adults experiencing pleasure with one another. No one was tied up (whether in a pretend way or not) and no one was depicted in a demeaning way.

Auxin 04-12-2016 12:52 PM

The vast majority of porn users are just as normal as anyone else. Sure, there are some nut balls but they crop up in any group.
The BDSM scene sounds trickier but from the studies I've seen (which were not clearly biased), as well as the numerous practitioners I've known, folks into tying people up, etc. are even more conscious of consent, emotional impacts, and safety than the average person. I dont doubt your online encounter was creepy since thats not what your into (I've been there) but being restrained is usually most enjoyed by the one tied up. For some people it feels very good to be able to trust someone that much. Others are burdened with so much responsibility that it feels good to finally not be the one in charge. Peek into any large BDSM community and you'll see LOTS of emphasis on the issues you might be concerned about. Modern bondage pornos even end with an interview of the participants asking them how they feel and what they got out of it, lol. I'm not at all into the pain stuff, but I've known enough who were to no longer fear it.

LedBoots 04-12-2016 03:50 PM

I always feel sorry for the people (especially the girls), so I wouldn't watch porn. There's no way of my knowing that the actors weren't coerced into doing things they don't want to. And with all the sex trafficking, who is to know. This vegan gives porn a thumbs down.

http://www.ibtimes.com/hot-girls-wan...r-porn-1956985

Naturebound 04-12-2016 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auxin (Post 3948233)
The vast majority of porn users are just as normal as anyone else. Sure, there are some nut balls but they crop up in any group.
The BDSM scene sounds trickier but from the studies I've seen (which were not clearly biased), as well as the numerous practitioners I've known, folks into tying people up, etc. are even more conscious of consent, emotional impacts, and safety than the average person. I dont doubt your online encounter was creepy since thats not what your into (I've been there) but being restrained is usually most enjoyed by the one tied up. For some people it feels very good to be able to trust someone that much. Others are burdened with so much responsibility that it feels good to finally not be the one in charge. Peek into any large BDSM community and you'll see LOTS of emphasis on the issues you might be concerned about. Modern bondage pornos even end with an interview of the participants asking them how they feel and what they got out of it, lol. I'm not at all into the pain stuff, but I've known enough who were to no longer fear it.

Pardon my ignorance but what is BDSM?

Auxin 04-12-2016 09:16 PM

BDSM officially stands for Bondage/Discipline Dominance/Submission Sadism/Masochism
Its the extremely broad rubric which covers things as tame as a person taking particular pleasure in pleasuring and serving their partner or being lightly restrained all the way to the really hardcore and exotic pain and blood stuff.
In looser general usage it basically means anything that is different than the default 'vanilla' relationship archetype. In the olden days they called it kinky sex.

Exploitation in porn is rare in the west but it happens. It happens in every industry. My neighbors were exploited when harvesting asparagus. If its a true concern then there are still options. For instance, join chaturbate, its amateurs who joined the site and turned on their webcam to make money from tips. You can talk to them and get to know them, some are quite friendly and easy to relate to. {I dont own stock in chaturbate or anything, its just the first good example that came to mind]


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