Four Students Kicked Out of Nursing School After Posing for Pictures with a Placenta - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 01-01-2011, 09:25 PM
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Nursing students ousted over placenta photos

OVERLAND PARK, Kan. Four students who posed for photos with a human placenta have been kicked out of a suburban Kansas City nursing program after at least one of the placenta pictures was posted on Facebook.

Now one of the students, Doyle Byrnes, is seeking a temporary restraining order and a preliminary injunction in U.S. District Court in Kansas to force Johnson County Community College to reinstate her before classes resume Jan. 19.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40874448/ns/health

This is weird, but I don't think they deserved to be expelled from nursing school. Maybe they acted unprofessionally, but I think the punishment was way too harsh for the "crime". Could they have not simply suspended them, or reprimanded them, or something before they went as far as kicking the students out of school?

I honestly think this is a symptom of a sick society that has gone too far in zero tolerance behavior. From forbidding kids in grammar school from touching each other, from sending home high school kids who have the audacity to possess OTC meds and plastic knives, and so on, why is the solution always the harshest punishment possible? I just don't get it.

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#2 Old 01-01-2011, 09:40 PM
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I'm not even sure I find it particularly wierd student behavior to be honest. I've heard of med students doing all kinds of crazy stuff like posing with cadavers, etc. These people deal with blood and guts everyday and often with very little sleep, I could certainly see the need to get a little silly sometimes. Posting it on Facebook... probably not such a good idea.
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#3 Old 01-01-2011, 10:05 PM
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but worth getting expelled from school? how do they know it was a real placenta? i mean, essentially, it's med students posing infront of a redblack blob?


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#4 Old 01-01-2011, 10:14 PM
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I'm not even sure I find it particularly wierd student behavior to be honest. I've heard of med students doing all kinds of crazy stuff like posing with cadavers, etc. These people deal with blood and guts everyday and often with very little sleep, I could certainly see the need to get a little silly sometimes. Posting it on Facebook... probably not such a good idea.

I think med students posing in joking ways with cadavers is *really* poor judgment, because pictures can always get around. Those are peoples' family members, the bodies were donated in the belief that it would help students, and they don't want to see them ridiculed in any way.

The placenta - you can't tell whose it was, and no one had to die to get it, so it's not such a problem, but still - society does not like to see their health care practitioners making a joke with their body parts or fluids or whatever. Not worthy of getting kicked out though.

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#5 Old 01-01-2011, 10:26 PM
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I'm kind of glad they did get kicked out - - though another part of me hopes they are allowed to resume their program. I think sometimes we don't expect enough out of people, and I think that, for nursing students especially, there should be a standard expectation that body parts (not attached to your own body or a, um, close friend's body) are not play things.
It'll be sad if the decision sticks, but it might be what's needed to scare the crap out of these would-be nurses to have more reverence for the people they treat . . . and their parts.
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#6 Old 01-01-2011, 10:35 PM
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I don't see it as too harsh. Using body parts as toys is a big no-no in the medical field. They'd get fired for this, pronto, so what is up with them being expelled? If they don't give a rat's arse about these things now I don't they will care about them later. If they were genuine about wanting jobs in this field later I doubt they'd have done what they did.

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#7 Old 01-01-2011, 11:18 PM
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If they don't give a rat's arse about these things now I don't they will care about them later.

I guess the argument I might make for that is that school is a training ground, and these students needed training in sensitivity to this kind of thing.

I think a suspension would be preferable, to give them a second chance, given the offense.

Unless they signed something about this already, or already went through some kind of training or warning about it. It also doesn't say what year of nursing school they were in. Apparently there needs to be training early on about this kind of thing for health practitioners.

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#8 Old 01-02-2011, 12:36 AM
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You can't help but wonder how anyone stupid enough to post this on Facebook could manage to graduate at all.

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#9 Old 01-02-2011, 12:46 AM
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Nah, this was way too harsh.

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#10 Old 01-02-2011, 01:03 AM
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#11 Old 01-02-2011, 01:06 AM
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#12 Old 01-02-2011, 01:12 AM
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So many people are too embarrassed to go to the doctor if they'll have to show body parts that are usually covered up or if they have what they perceive as an embarrassing condition. Medical professionals need to always uphold the greatest standards of professionalism for this reason and many other reasons... we put an awful lot of trust in them and we need to know it won't be abused. This is why people like teachers, psychologists, nurses SHOULD be careful in their private lives. Or rather, careful that what they do in their private lives doesn't get back to the people who have put a lot of trust in them. So whilst I think it's fine for a nurse to rant to their partner or have a laugh in the staff room about something work-related, doing some stupid crap like this and then posting it on facebook for the world to see is idiotic.

I hope they are given a second chance because I think this will have taught them the need to not act like dicks in a public way.
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#13 Old 01-02-2011, 06:21 AM
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Unless they signed something about this already, or already went through some kind of training or warning about it.

They most likely did. I believe one of the first things medical and nursing students go through is what is deemed acceptable behavior and what violates HIPPA, etc.
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#14 Old 01-02-2011, 06:26 AM
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Sad.
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#15 Old 01-02-2011, 07:02 AM
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I don't see it as too harsh. Using body parts as toys is a big no-no in the medical field. They'd get fired for this, pronto, so what is up with them being expelled? If they don't give a rat's arse about these things now I don't they will care about them later. If they were genuine about wanting jobs in this field later I doubt they'd have done what they did.

This. Plus, most nursing programs have long waiting lists. Why should people like this be permitted to become RNs when there are dozens if not hundreds more equally qualified students waiting in the wings who aren't stupid enough to pose with a placenta then post it on FB?
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#16 Old 01-02-2011, 07:42 AM
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This makes me want to take a picture with a placenta.

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#17 Old 01-02-2011, 07:47 AM
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I never thought a placenta was a big deal. When I worked at a different hospital, we'd have monthly mandatory department staff meetings, taking over an unused x-ray room. Prior to one of these meetings, the department manager was late, and we were waiting for him to show up. While we were waiting, in wandered one of the staff ob/gyn's carrying a container that looked like a crockpot under his arm. He said it had a placenta in it. We all crowded around to look at it. It was a priceless moment.

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#18 Old 01-02-2011, 07:51 AM
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Kansas is VERY conservative. I would not be surprised if there was no sensitivity training early on. This is the sort of thing Kansans think you should have learned at home from your God-fearing parents.

I don't think it takes "God-fearing parents" teaching them for a person to know this behavior is inappropriate.

Healthcare professionals should hold themselves to a higher standard.

I see from the article that they asked the instructor permission to take the photo and were given a non-committal answer. I suppose the punishment is too harsh in that light.

I also think this is a great argument for not having a public FB page.

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#19 Old 01-02-2011, 08:23 AM
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Posing with a placenta = dumb.

Photographing oneself with placenta = dumber.

Posting photograph on social media = dumberer.

Filing a lawsuit to draw attention to one's violation of a federal privacy law = dumberest.

(Yes I know those are not real words. I am mocking the level of stupidity with fake words. Work with me. )

No common sense. I for one am glad these rocket scientists won't be treating me any time soon.

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#20 Old 01-02-2011, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Digger View Post

I've heard of med students doing all kinds of crazy stuff like posing with cadavers, etc. These people deal with blood and guts everyday and often with very little sleep, I could certainly see the need to get a little silly sometimes. Posting it on Facebook... probably not such a good idea.

Yes, I have met medical students that do stuff like that probably to be able to deal with the stress of the job. I agree as well that posting a pic on FB was bad judgement on their part.
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#21 Old 01-02-2011, 09:22 AM
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Posing with a placenta = dumb.

Photographing oneself with placenta = dumber.

Posting photograph on social media = dumberer.

Filing a lawsuit to draw attention to one's violation of a federal privacy law = dumberest.

(Yes I know those are not real words. I am mocking the level of stupidity with fake words. Work with me. )

No common sense. I for one am glad these rocket scientists won't be treating me any time soon.

I hope I never have to be treated by anyone as apparently humorless and uptight as you.

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#22 Old 01-02-2011, 09:47 AM
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#23 Old 01-02-2011, 09:53 AM
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They most likely did. I believe one of the first things medical and nursing students go through is what is deemed acceptable behavior and what violates HIPPA, etc.

That's right! That is one of the very first things they have to do, so these people knowingly violated the agreement.

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#24 Old 01-02-2011, 11:15 AM
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I think the expulsion was just.

I wish the NFL held it's players to similar standards.
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#25 Old 01-02-2011, 11:32 AM
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That's right! That is one of the very first things they have to do, so these people knowingly violated the agreement.

Seriously. I honestly think these people deserved it. My husband and sister-in-law are in the health care field and I mentioned this to them. They both thought it was incredibly stupid and said the girls should have known better.
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#26 Old 01-02-2011, 11:33 AM
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I hope I never have to be treated by anyone as apparently humorless and uptight as you.

I wouldn't want anyone treating me to be posting photos online.
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#27 Old 01-02-2011, 11:39 AM
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It doesn't sound like a particularly bright move but I don't see why they would be expelled for it. It's not like they were wearing the placenta as a hat or something, just standing around one as a picture was taken. I'm not sure what the difference is between that and some of the photos on my old job's website of us scrubbed in and having our photo taken during a dog spay. Hell, I have a truly awesome photo of a spleen attached to a tumor that we removed, it weighed in at 7kg. I wouldn't view it as disrespectful to the person who donated the placenta or to the placenta itself. I am unclear as to how you can disrespect a placenta though? I respected the hell out of the dog that we removed the spleen from, she came through amazingly well recovered nicely and got an excellent year of good quality life afterwards.

Realistically, it's just a photo of people in a program, taking a lab, and wanting to have something to remember that really interesting moment. Posting it in facebook was the dumb part. Having lax privacy standards that would allow your school officials to view it is even worse.
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#28 Old 01-02-2011, 12:08 PM
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I hope I never have to be treated by anyone as apparently humorless and uptight as you.

this


amazing how many people here atre so uptight that they believe that this was just
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#29 Old 01-02-2011, 12:36 PM
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I hope I never have to be treated by anyone as apparently humorless and uptight as you.

I hope I never have to talk to anyone who engages in rude name calling as you.

We were having a civil discussion until you decided to engage in a personal attack against someone who doesn't share your opinion. Bravo.

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#30 Old 01-02-2011, 12:44 PM
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It doesn't sound like a particularly bright move but I don't see why they would be expelled for it. It's not like they were wearing the placenta as a hat or something, just standing around one as a picture was taken. I'm not sure what the difference is between that and some of the photos on my old job's website of us scrubbed in and having our photo taken during a dog spay.

The difference is a federal law that applies to humans and not to dogs.

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I wouldn't view it as disrespectful to the person who donated the placenta or to the placenta itself.

As you pointed out, respect is subjective, but ultimately it's within the school's authority to determine what it feels is respectful or not. But we are not dealing with just disrespect. We are dealing with a potential violation of a federal law, which means both the school and hospital must report themselves to DHHS, and pay their staffs/attorneys to prepare for and respond to an investigation, plus a potential lawsuit from the patient. The bad publicity alone is costing them both a lot of money.

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Realistically, it's just a photo of people in a program, taking a lab, and wanting to have something to remember that really interesting moment. Posting it in facebook was the dumb part.

I doubt that--personal cameras are never allowed in clinical areas. Photos are usually done for teaching purposes on university cameras, and pics are reviewed for their educational merits prior to use. They are not distributed to students' personal cell phones.

I should add that I am the Privacy Officer for a health care facility. Everyone is free to have opinions about the student's actions but the law is what it is, the risk is what it is, regardless of what we may want it to be.

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