Statewide Spay and Neuter Bill Introduced in California Legislature - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 03-15-2007, 11:55 AM
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What is your thought on this Bill? Ten's of millions of dogs and cats are euthanized for lack of good homes annually, an estimated half million in California alone. AB 1634 would make it mandatory to spay/neuter your cats and dogs.



If it becomes law, AB 1634 would prohibit any person from owning or possessing any unaltered cat or dog over the age of four months, unless that person purchases an intact-animal permit. Violators would be fined, and the money raised from the fines would be used to fund free and low-cost spay and neuter programs.



I have read the arguments for and against it. My personal feeling is the system we have now does NOT work it is time to try something new. If there is a flaw in this Bill, what ideas do you have?



Oops, I think this should be in "Animal Rights & Welfare" but I dont know how to move a thread.
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#2 Old 03-15-2007, 12:02 PM
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I think the consequences are grave enough to warrant more legislation (which I am normally against). Unless some valid arguments exist which I haven't thought of, it sounds like a step in the right direction.



I have doubts on how this would be enforced, so I would like to read more about it.
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#3 Old 03-15-2007, 12:06 PM
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Hmmm. It sounds good, but I just thought of something. If a person has not spayed/neutered their dog, they will be afraid of taking it to the vet, because the vet might be able to tell.
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#4 Old 03-15-2007, 04:13 PM
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hi, i do dog rescue. i rescue dogs from the bakersfield shelter where they get 96 hours to live. i rescued 71 dogs in January........they killed 1034. nough' said. i'm for AB 1634. thanks, Amy
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#5 Old 03-15-2007, 05:21 PM
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I agree 100%. I have read everything I can find for and against it. There are several animal groups who are against it and I completely disagree with their reasons. Sometimes Bills can be a double edge sword with hidden agendas, so I wanted to see if there were any reasons I was missing.



So back to the whole reason I started this post....If you agree that this legislation would make a difference...please write to your assembly member and politely urge them to help make AB 1634 a law. I wanted to post a link to the list of California assembly members, but all the links from the web sites are not working for me. If any one finds a working one, please post it.
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#6 Old 03-15-2007, 05:23 PM
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I think this is an excellent idea. What are the reasons the animal groups are giving?



(I'm sure I posted that, I'm sure, but my post never showed up)

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#7 Old 03-15-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snownose View Post

Hmmm. It sounds good, but I just thought of something. If a person has not spayed/neutered their dog, they will be afraid of taking it to the vet, because the vet might be able to tell.



yeah thats the only problem i can see
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#8 Old 03-15-2007, 06:07 PM
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Hi everybody,

I was reading a very informative article about the bill AB1634. As a volunteer and foster mum for several rescue organizations I definitely support this bill!

I was really shocked about one persons comment, saying that killing an animal cost only 30 cents. She should be ashamed of herself minimizing their lives like that! Is the live of a young and healthy pet not worth more than 30 cents?

Has she ever spend time in a shelter??? People like this make it hard for compassionate animal lovers and responsible pet owners.

All the heartbraking stories, the faces that we never forget and all the dogs and cats that we have to leave behind because we cannot save them all! The wagging tails, the sad eyes that want to tell you: take me!!! I'm dreaming about this every night. When I leave a shelter I cry for all these wonderful creatures that I have to leave behind.

How can anybody be against this bill??? These people should go to the shelters and volunteer just for a week. I bet it wouldn't even take them a day to understand how we feel and I bet it would change their minds.

The bill AB1634 is not discriminating serious and knowledgeable dog breeders. It is to prevent unserious "backyard breeding", it is to protect innocent pets owned by irresponsible people, it is to save lives! Of course, there are still a lot of "grey zones", but it's time to start somewhere!!!

Please, everybody who is against this bill, go to visit a shelter, go from kennel to kennel, spend a few minutes with every animal, look into these innocent eyes of young and healthy animals....and imagine that this could be YOUR pet. Now, tell me how you feel!

Bill AB1634 is overdue! Please, support this bill!!!
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#9 Old 03-15-2007, 06:44 PM
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Can someone provide info on WHY anyone is against this? As I said, I can't think of a single valid reason.
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#10 Old 03-15-2007, 08:33 PM
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Wow, I'd be happy to give you more info on why people might oppose this bill. All of them are baseless, or profit motivated.



AKC and breeders will tell you that it cuts into their profits. They don't want to have to pay a fee. Check your local paper. The Bakersfield Californian had 122 ads for dogs for sale a few months back. I'd bet my life that not many of those dogs were bred by responsible breeders that gave health guarantees, OFA testing, Hip testing, etc., or took their unwanted dogs back. Not to mention I'm sure that none of them aided the surplus animal situation by rescuing their own breed.



Depending on the geographic location, there is the financial issue. It's not cheap to "fix" your pet. Not that many locales have subsidized spay or neuter. Where I live, it costs 300 bucks to get your large dog done. Ouch. It's just not high on people's priority list.



Then there is the cultural issue. Men hate to neuter their male dogs. Certain cultures think it's not macho. Or they want their kids to see the puppies born. These are the same cultures that think it's okay to churn out kids and collect food stamps and a welfare check. Nobody has ever taught them differently, and education is the key here. I've spent many hours talking to co-workers and friends that are culturally programmed to want to have puppies. Give them the facts, and they turn green and make a vet appointment. Give them a way to afford it with a subsidized program, and they line up to do the right thing.



Then there are the hobbyists that do agility, show, flyball, hunt, etc. They maintain that it's their right to have a choice. They HAVE a choice. Fix your pet or pay the fee. Right?? Or change the competition rules to allow altered animals.....what ever happened to kindness in today's world?



I also do rescue. I'm fed up. It's not enough to save dogs and bail them out of the shelter when they are sick and need vet care. We all go broke, one dog at a time. For every dog we rescue, there are 300 more that we leave behind with sad eyes that haunt me. Perfectly wonderful companion animals that will die because we humans failed them. It's not their fault. The problem is US.



I also volunteer at and have organized a free spay/neuter event. They are VERY expensive, exhausting, and we do 100 dogs a day. Granted, there will be LOTS of puppies that aren't born because of that one day, but is it ENOUGH? It's not. It's still not solving the problems, or dropping the numbers of animals that are dying every day.



Monetary statistics: The Bakersfield, CA shelter spends an average of $ 118- to house dogs for four days per the Hayden Law, and then kill them. If they threw $350K at a subsidized s/n program in Kern County, and spent $70- per dog, they would cut their numbers in half over the next three years. It's a no-brainer. Soooo. Can someone tell me why the Board of Supervisors can't get this one off the table?? (a whole other subject, sorry for the rant...)



That license fee would go a long way towards funding more animal control officers, enforcement and subsidized spay and neuter, wouldn't it??



I could talk this one until I'm blue in the face. I've heard all of the arguments against, and they are BS, not to mention steeped in ignorance.
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#11 Old 03-15-2007, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessiemomof2 View Post

Wow, I'd be happy to give you more info on why people might oppose this bill. All of them are baseless, or profit motivated...



Thanks for your reply. I had thought of those things, but frankly, they're all such absurd reasons that I didn't grasp that people could seriously debate those points!



I do wish there were more low cost spay/neuter clinics available. Living in rural IL, I fully understand the need for these & unfortunately there is no such option for people. However, this is the price of owning a pet. I hate to say it, but if you can't pay to have the animal spayed, or get it to the nearest low cost facility, or make some sort of arrangement, what would you do if the animal got sick? Got injured? Required any kind of expensive treatment? Ideally, this might encourage people to adopt from shelters where the animals are already spayed.



As far as the agility crowd, there is no reason dogs in those competitions need to be in-tact. Their organizations need to be welcomed to this century.



And breeders complaining? Frankly, they can stick it.
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#12 Old 03-15-2007, 09:05 PM
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That's the amazing part. That the reasons are so baseless.



When I hear people say they want their dog to have puppies, I tell them to walk a shelter. Connect with the dog's eyes. See if they feel the same when they walk out the door.



The numbers of pets that we are killing in the US is in the millions per year. And there is a sensible solution. It's so very sad.



I volunteer for s/n days in Tijuana. They are free, and people are welcome to bring their dogs and cats. These folks wait 12 hours for their pets to wake up. The vets are all volunteer. The animals that are unlucky to get picked up by animal control there are killed by anal electrocution after not getting fed for days so there's no poop to clean up.



We still have towns in the US that kill with a gas chamber or a shot to the head.



Bottom line is that we have to start somewhere with the problem of unwanted, surplus companion animals. Not everyone is going to like it.
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#13 Old 03-15-2007, 09:09 PM
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I'M SO GLAD I KNOW YOU AND WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE!! heres a little story to warm your hearts. i was looking at a dog in the bakersfield shelter. i was sent there to get 'german sheperds' as close to pure as i could get. there was a dog that on the website kinda sorta looked liked it could pass for a german sheperd. i was pulling for a breed rescue that day. for those of you that dont know what a 'breed rescue' is....its a rescue that only rescues a certain breed of dogs. well.....anyway......this dog didnt have a tail and was just a little too mixed to take. the rescue was out of money from treating all the sick dogs from bakersfield and i couldnt take him. he was a nice dog. i told the animal care worker i couldnt take the dog and she threw a rope around his neck and said....."well, you were the only one who wanted to see him so.........." and she dragged the dog the the medical room right in front of me to kill him. thats the sort of thing that sticks in your heart for the rest of your life. i bet if every person who thinks its ok not to spay/nueter thier pet saw and felt what i did that day, they would change thier minds and this bill would pass. thats just one horror story......sorry to say.....this happens all the time. i'd be writing forever if i told every f*ed up thing i've seen go down in this shelter and 100 just like it across california. just my 2 cents. Amy
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#14 Old 03-16-2007, 09:45 AM
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Here is a link to the list of California's State Senator's. Please write them and ask them to support AB 1634.



http://www.50states.com/california/g...ces.htm?show=S

Scroll down to the State Senators.



This Bill was introduced in New Mexico and this was the out come (how sad!): Representative Gutierrezs office has confirmed that HB 1106, the Pet Owner Responsibility Act will not move forward this session. Congratulations to the fanciers and concerned dog owners who took the time to educate their legislators about this important issue.



Please do not let this happen here! Write your Senator and tell everyone you know. And if your reading this and do not live in California, please write your State Senator and ask them to introduce this Bill in your state.
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#15 Old 03-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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i think its great. wondering why they wouldnt have done this earlier.
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#16 Old 03-17-2007, 09:18 AM
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Several years ago, a similar ordinance was proposed in my city. A group calling itself the "Responsible Pet Owners" (!) got together and threw an absolute fit, yelling long and loud that their property rights were being violated. The animal rescues/shelters were not organized or vocal enough, and the bill failed.



So, local and national groups like this are also a threat to pro-animal bills. These groups are similar in philosophy to landowners' and gun-rights groups. They believe that animals are objects of property, and any law that restricts what they can do with their property is a threat to their rights. These groups have more power in some parts of the country than others, but they have killed popular bills in many places.

slops, gloops, and gruels.
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#17 Old 03-17-2007, 11:43 AM
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LOVE IT! my county just made it illegal to sell or adopt out an unspayed animal so hopefully something like this is on the way for us too.
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#18 Old 03-18-2007, 08:18 AM
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I really hope this passes and becomes a model for other states.



Too many people are irresponsible when it comes to spaying and neutering their pets. I've taken in 3 kitties who were shelter bound and would take more if I could, but I can't.



What really irks me is people who what their animal to "experience giving birth". I just DO NOT get that thinking. Let the animal experience pain, then take its babies away after 6 weeks and hope you can find homes for them, otherwise to the shelter they go! It infuriates me.



I don't buy the "I can't afford to fix my pet" argument either. If you can't afford to properly care for an animal, don't adopt it, or else adopt an abandoned one who's already been fixed.
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#19 Old 03-28-2007, 05:47 AM
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Sounds like a brilliant idea to me, although I would be suprised if it gets through. There are still too many people who think it would be nice for ther pet to have a litter so they get to play with the cute kittens, who wouldnt want that "right" legislating.

If I were going to introduce this bill, I would do it through compulsory licensing of all dogs, with significantly reduced rates for those who spay / neuter. Might be less popular overall, but I suspect people woudl see it as less of an infringement on their "property rights."



I also think the current system is pretty unenforceable. You cant tell if a female is neutered or not unless she is in season, and theyre hardly going to insist on compulsory exploratory surgery on peoples pets, so in its current form it is also pretty unenforceable.
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#20 Old 03-28-2007, 07:26 AM
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They could require people to produce papers saying their animal is altered. Thats what you have to do here to get the decreased rabies license if you don't just buy it from the vets office that did the surgery.
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