Debate on vivisection,Oxford debate,27/7 NEWSNIGHT - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-26-2006, 11:53 PM
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Newsnight, BBC2, Thursday 27th July 2006, 10.30 pm to 11.15 pm





Debate on vivisection, Oxford debate 27th July



Mel Broughton - Speak



Kathy Archibald Europeans for Medical Progress



André Menache Animal Aid



Dr Caroline Lucas MEP



-v-



Professor Tipu Aziz



Dr Evan Harris MP



Someone from Research Defence Society



Possibly Mike Robbins (who suffers from Parkinson¹s Disease)



The debate is to take place at 8 pm and will be filmed by Newsnight. The debate will be shown on Newsnight later the same evening and apparently the whole programme is to be devoted to the subject.

-----------------------------------------------------------



send in your questions too :



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5210868.stm



Last Updated: Monday, 24 July 2006, 15:03 GMT 16:03 UK



E-mail this to a friend Printable version



Half 'against funding animal labs'



Newsnight will debate animal testing on Thursday 27 July





Send us your questions

More than half of people believe taxpayers' money should not be used to help build more laboratories to carry out tests on animals for medical research, a poll for Newsnight suggests.

A total of 57% of respondents said they did not want public money spent on building laboratories, while 40% thought it was right that taxpayers' money be spent in this way. A further 3% said they did not know.



The figures are revealed on the day the Home Office published its annual figures on animal testing. According to the figures the number of experiments on animals carried out in the UK rose by 41,300 last year to 2,896,000.



The full results from the ICM poll - of 1,001 people - will be revealed in a vivisection debate to be broadcast on Newsnight on Thursday 27th July on BBC TWO at 10.30pm.



Newsnight debate



Newsnight and BBC Oxford are co-hosting the debate in Oxford with a distinguished panel of national experts representing both sides of the debate.



Speakers include controversial activist Mel Broughton representing SPEAK (Stop the Primate Laboratory at Oxford University) and Professor Tipu Aziz from Pro-Test, who campaign in favour of continued animal testing and in support of scientific research.



It is thought to be the first time that the pair have debated publicly on the issue.



Newsnight debate

Thursday 27th July, 2230BST

Speakers including Mel Broughton from Speak and Professor Tipu Aziz, leading member of Pro-Test





Quick Guide - Animal Testing

Continued rise for animal tests

The debate will be broadcast on Newsnight and the Newsnight website, and will also be transmitted on BBC Radio Oxford and BBC South Today the following day. It will also be available on the BBC Oxford website.



The evening will begin with a report setting the scene for the debate outlining how Oxford has found itself at the centre of a controversy about the building of new animal vivisection laboratories; the lengths that both sides are prepared to go to and how things are likely to pan out assuming that opposing groups will never agree.



The debate will cover a wide range of issues surrounding animal testing with Gavin Esler leading the discussion. If you have a question you would like Gavin to ask the panel please use the form below.







------------------------------------



No doubt the BBC will cut and edit this to be on the favour of the vivisectors, as per usual, jsut like they have done this morning on their breakfast show.



Come on Mel , do us proud



http://www.speakcampaigns.org.uk/
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#2 Old 07-27-2006, 02:28 AM
 
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Thanks for posting this!

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#3 Old 07-27-2006, 03:02 AM
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I won't be watching it,the BBC have a history of censoring anti vivisectionists and always making sure the pro vivisectionists win,but why? The BBC are impartial,right?



check out this article:



http://www.bava.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bbc.html
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#4 Old 07-31-2006, 02:45 AM
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Well I did watch it , along with all my friends . Needless to say of course it was totally biased in favour of animal testing.

The interview, grrr I just wanted to gag him, he kept interupting Mel when he was speaking, kept going on about mosquitos , was using animals used i experiments such as rats and mice- animals most people see as vermin so wouldnt care about anyway, and then said to Mel "yeah yeah we we get back to teh cute and cuddly animals later" which of course they never did,he was just obseesd with asking about mosquitos and if they had a cure for malaria in one would Mel refuse to allow it to be tested on.Just goes to show how little the interviewer knew about malaria!!!!!



I was shouting at the tv so much lol , but Mel waws totally brilliant and handled every ignorant abusive question from that biased interview very very well , good on you Mel we love you.



I remember when I had to phone up to pay my tv liscense I even told them that I hate having to give money to the British Biased Corpertaion.

They even had a person on Breakfast news in favour off animal testing the same day , but of course nobody agaisnt it did they!!



And ion the show they had a guy with parkinsons come on-see him on every animal testing debate programme. Of course they didnt have anybody on there who had been effected massively from drugs tested on animals did they , that would be to unbiased of course!!!

I'll shut up now otherwise I wont stop lol
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#5 Old 07-31-2006, 04:10 AM
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The interviewer was a complete idiot, he was really condesending and rude to the anti- side
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#6 Old 07-31-2006, 04:52 AM
 
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Hm. I thought the interviewer was very biased, especially toward the SPEAK representative, but overall I thought the AR side was presented well. The woman whose mother was ill was a positive touch. The guy from the anti-vivisection group (I forget the name) was well spoken, along with the women from the Doctors Against Animal Testing, or whatever it was called. The anit-viv guy in particular, responded well to the stupid hypothetical question about the mosquito.



The AR guy who had been in jail came across (to me) as a bit extremist in his actions, if not in his views. However the MP that they had on, supporting the other side was just as "wild", for lack of a better word.



The main "scientist man" from Oxford appeared to be very condescending, not particulary likable at all. The other supporter, the guy in tan clothes was the most convincing of all the pro-testing folks, I think. He also seemed more interested in discussion than the "you're all just uneducated ingrates" Oxford man.



Most of all, I was interested to see their polls numbers change when they asked the question about testing on rats/rodents, etc. versus dogs/cats/primates. Something like 83% were against the testing on "higher" animals. Now, I definitely think a rat can suffer, but the attitude reflected in the polls suggests that maybe the public will act against the lab at Oxford, which plans to conduct significant testing on primates.



Anyway, this is kind of long, but overall it was better than I expected. The "moderator" was clearly biased, but I think the AR folks did well regardless.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#7 Old 07-31-2006, 05:40 AM
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I don't blame the interviewer,he just the script reading drone,he's more like an actor,following his media brief and climbing up the media ladder though total obedience.

I've totally given up on tv,all these script reading presenters,with there fake smiles(Lorraine Kelly) and pretence, that there just like one of us.



It's a shame anti vivisection campaigners aren't more informed about the BBC.
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#8 Old 07-31-2006, 05:43 AM
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If i was an active anti vivisection campaigner,i wouldn't give there fake edited, presenter controlled debates an aura of "hearing both sides" and of "democracy."



I would just use the Web of the internet to reach people,as the audience of cyber space has more viewers globally anywy.
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#9 Old 07-31-2006, 11:32 AM
 
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Hm. Perhaps, but I'd think that a mainstream television news show would have the likelihood of reaching a far more diverse audience. Sites on the 'net spend a lot of time preaching to the choir.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#10 Old 08-06-2006, 04:15 PM
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Programs like that always seem to make people who are anti vivisection out to be complete nutters. I often wonder why the public are given more information about the more scientific, more reliable methods of testing medicine/chemicals/ingredients etc, it may change peoples minds if they knew there was an alternative?
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#11 Old 08-18-2006, 08:03 AM
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see my reply to Newsnight

'proctalgia' at livejournal.
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#12 Old 08-23-2006, 02:59 PM
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Surprise surprise, the whole debate coming down to the question of whether an anti-viv activist would swat a malaria carrying mosquito that was on his arm about to bite him... Well done BBC, what a great bit of scripting... and how very impartial...
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#13 Old 08-24-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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If that's what you think..you missed a whole lot.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#14 Old 08-24-2006, 02:37 AM
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No, that really seemed to be what the ethical discussion was limited to. They showed a man suffering from Parkinson's (I wonder why they didn't show the other side, like kittens' eyes being sewn shut by Colin Blakemore who also attended the debate), and asked the mosquito question, and showed some polls. That was about it as far as I remember.

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#15 Old 08-24-2006, 04:04 AM
 
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One of the AR folks responded well to the stupidity of the mosquito question, the woman who's mother was ill talked about the ineffectuality of animal testing, several of the folks mentioned medical organizations that were taking stands against the used of animal testing. And...even in the polls, I found it interesting that the far far majority (like 80 something percent) didn't support testing on primates, which is at the heart of the Oxford lab battle.



Yeah, the host was a jackass, but to put the whole show down to the mosquito thing is incorrect.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#16 Old 08-24-2006, 04:26 AM
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I said the mosquito question was what the ethical discussion was limited to. Granted, Animallibgal talked about the debate as a whole, but the debate as a whole didn't have much to give either. The scientific anti-vivisection argument consisted in vague generalities, the only specification being the chromosome argument or whatever of the French guy, and, like stated, there wasn't much of a discussion about ethics. This is a failing on the anti-vivisection side, though: they should have used the little time given to them in making some more specific points instead of repeating the same "species difference" argument again.

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#17 Old 08-24-2006, 04:59 AM
 
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responding to "the whole debate coming down to the question of whether an anti-viv activist would swat a malaria carrying mosquito that was on his arm about to bite him"

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#18 Old 08-24-2006, 05:10 AM
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Well, I think the contribution of that debate to the ongoing scientific and ethical discussion about vivisection can be summed up thus.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#19 Old 11-11-2008, 03:49 PM
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I didn't know where best, to put this post, but to avoid indecision about which protest organizing thread to put it in, I opted rather for the most rabid thread to pacify it maybe a little, haha. AND NOW THIS NEWSNIGHT THREAD WHICH I FIND SUBSEQUENTLY.

NICE TO KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY '*****' WITH A DEMOCRATIC HEAD AROUND HERE



HEHE.... ANYWAY NOW THAT I'VE FOUND A THREAD TO POST THIS IN...

(see here for my more or less replica post in the violent aka 3 cars torched thread)



so yah what the hell, being a level headed nutter, my logic here was to woop this post here too, and so in it goes in amongst NEWSNIGHT POSTS - UNITED HERE IN THIS THREAD < WOOHOO> LOL, which in any case not many of us will find that terribly ironic based on what my subject is.... But on the talk side of things anyway, I will venture this for general info:



SOME NEWSNIGHT (BBC2) INFO: 11th November 2008...



NEWSNIGHT & "ForestGlades Little INFORMATION Captures"" if anyone finds it useful:



Didn't catch the name of the woman on said TV being interviewed who works for Hadwen Trust but anyway the good news here is that its an alternative medicene organization I discover tonight on Newsnight. But yeah I knnnnow, I shouuuuld know, but waaaaiiiit okaaaaaay, I don't flood my mind with this everyday ... but okay I think I've heard of this "Trust/Organization" before? Oh well anyway its something to look up whilst the opening of Oxford Lab is upon us, and imminent.



Likewise (again on a basic info tip)... you might welcome (unless his name is Aziz) knowledge of other names also mentioned on this "newsnight" program which included interview between these two below, with of course Jeremy Paxman in the middle being steward:



Michelle Thew, president thingy of BUAV.



Tipu Aziz = major neuro-surgeon operating at Oxford Lab.



And just as a reminder to everybody, "PRO-test" are the group in and the around Oxford aka general heartless public that are supporting animal testing pertinent in their minds relating to Oxford as their focus and incentive for how "PRO-test" came about. And the group worth noting was started by something of a snob if anyone would like to mock

Feel free I beg you. Whats the name of that posh twat. I have lost my notes about it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



On a lighter note, there were apostrophe's discussed on newsnight tonight as well (yeah I know of all things) ...sooo that was a bit mad. Apparently punctuation did not even exist a 1000 year's ago. Ha, old Jeremy Paxman found it a bit confusing like we all do. hehe.
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#20 Old 11-11-2008, 03:56 PM
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I didn't know where best, to put this post, but to avoid indecision about which protest organizing thread to put it in, I opted rather for the most rabid thread to pacify it maybe a little, haha. AND NOW THIS NEWSNIGHT THREAD WHICH I FIND SUBSEQUENTLY.

NICE TO KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY '*****' WITH A DEMOCRATIC HEAD AROUND HERE



HEHE.... ANYWAY NOW THAT I'VE FOUND A THREAD TO POST THIS IN...

(see here for my more or less replica post in the violent aka 3 cars torched thread)



so yah what the hell, being a level headed nutter, my logic here was to woop this post here too, and so in it goes in amongst NEWSNIGHT POSTS - UNITED HERE IN THIS THREAD < WOOHOO> LOL, which in any case not many of us will find that terribly ironic based on what my subject is.... But on the talk side of things anyway, I will venture this for general info:



SOME NEWSNIGHT (BBC2) INFO: 11th November 2008...



NEWSNIGHT & "ForestGlades Little INFORMATION Captures"" if anyone finds it useful:



Didn't catch the name of the woman on said TV being interviewed who works for Hadwen Trust but anyway the good news here is that its an alternative medicene organization I discover tonight on Newsnight. But yeah I knnnnow, I shouuuuld know, but waaaaiiiit okaaaaaay, I don't flood my mind with this everyday ... but okay I think I've heard of this "Trust/Organization" before? Oh well anyway its something to look up whilst the opening of Oxford Lab is upon us, and imminent.



Likewise (again on a basic info tip)... you might welcome (unless his name is Aziz) knowledge of other names also mentioned on this "newsnight" program which included interview between these two below, with of course Jeremy Paxman in the middle being steward:



Michelle Thew, president thingy of BUAV.



Tipu Aziz = major neuro-surgeon operating at Oxford Lab.



And just as a reminder to everybody, "PRO-test" are the group in and the around Oxford aka general heartless public that are supporting animal testing pertinent in their minds relating to Oxford as their focus and incentive for how "PRO-test" came about. And the group worth noting was started by something of a snob if anyone would like to mock

Feel free I beg you. Whats the name of that posh twat. I have lost my notes about it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



On a lighter note, there were apostrophe's discussed on newsnight tonight as well (yeah I know of all things) ...sooo that was a bit mad. Apparently punctuation did not even exist a 1000 year's ago. Ha, old Jeremy Paxman found it a bit confusing like we all do. hehe.
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#21 Old 11-11-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Well, I think the contribution of that debate to the ongoing scientific and ethical discussion about vivisection can be summed up thus.



what were the missing words you edited out? ......."Peaceful & Prairie" ?
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