Fat and carbohydrates--the good, bad, and ugly - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 08-21-2003, 03:16 PM
Newbie
 
Sassypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 34
With all of the "health" information that's floating around in the world, it can be really difficult to figure out what guidelines are the best to follow...I know there are a lot of really knowledgable people on these boards, so I thought I ask a couple of questions!



1)Fat. I know there are "good" fats and "bad" fats, and I think I do pretty well in that area (hummus, peanut butter, and avocado being some of my favorite "good" fat sources). However, I'm still not sure how much of this "good" fat I should be consuming. It is "bad" for you at all? Help!!



2) Carbohydrates--I'm really confused here. I've heard that carbohydrates convert to sugar during digestion, and that's why they're not healthy in large amounts. What about complex carbs like whole weat pastas/breads/brown rice/ect? What about fruit?

I'm working on phasing out all white pasta/bread/ect.--but yeah, I'm confused.



that's it for now folks. Thanks in advance.
Sassypants is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 08-21-2003, 03:25 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassypants View Post




1)Fat. I know there are "good" fats and "bad" fats, and I think I do pretty well in that area (hummus, peanut butter, and avocado being some of my favorite "good" fat sources). However, I'm still not sure how much of this "good" fat I should be consuming. It is "bad" for you at all? Help!!



2) Carbohydrates--I'm really confused here. I've heard that carbohydrates convert to sugar during digestion, and that's why they're not healthy in large amounts. What about complex carbs like whole weat pastas/breads/brown rice/ect? What about fruit?

I'm working on phasing out all white pasta/bread/ect.--but yeah, I'm confused.



1. Too much fat = bad. Too little fat = bad. Too much saturated (think animal fat) = bad. The largest thing to consider with the good fats (think avocado, peanut, sunflower seeds, olives) is the calories. Too many calories = weight gain.



Too many peanuts (good fat) wont give you a heart attacks. Too many eggs (bad fat) can.



There are also transfat, which are deep-fried foods (basically) and oils that were liquid before they were tortured into becoming solids. I'm slowly accepting that these may indeed be bad for me.



2. Foods of Satan = white flour, white rice, white pasta, overprocessed foods (think foods whereby a 10 year ago cannot read 50%+ of the ingredients without stuttering). These are fine in small amounts (ie you enjoy white rice a couple times per week) but overall you need the whole grains. The whole grains have more fibre and more nutritents. They are closer to their natural state and are processed less. They do not need the minerals added back into them. They will fill you up longer. They will help you eat less junk food.



Does that help?
GhostUser is offline  
#3 Old 08-21-2003, 03:29 PM
Newbie
 
Sassypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 34
Thank you! that helps a lot!

"Foods of Satan"--so funny, I'm going to start calling them that...heh.
Sassypants is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 08-21-2003, 05:06 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
>>There are also transfat, which are deep-fried foods (basically) and oils >>



Here's a question. Are the trans-fats present due to the deep-frying process or because trans-fats are used as the frying medium? I have a deep fryer and use canola oil in it. do I have a little trans-fat factory?



ebola
ebola is offline  
#5 Old 08-21-2003, 06:54 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
As I understand it, it is the process of making the partially-hydrogenated/hydrogenated oils is the problem.



For example, McDonalds (I think) is planning to make their french fries 100% trans fat free.



In Canada, labelling of it will be out in the next 1-3 years (I forget when exactly). Canada health officials recommend that trans fat levels be as low as possible.
GhostUser is offline  
#6 Old 08-21-2003, 08:34 PM
Veggie Regular
 
VegAnna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
ebola - I think both, but most of the transfats are made in the process of hydrogenation (by factories, not you at home), and only some damage is done to the oil in the frying/heating process.



about the carbohydrates, you would have to include many factors to figure out if a carb is good or bad. Of course, the general rule is best, white is bad, brown (whole) is good.

Here's things that *can* make a carb bad = high GI index (raises blood sugar fast and then lets it plummet even lower), processing destroyed all natural vitamins/minerals, little/no fiber (bran removed), no EFA's (germ removed). that's all I can think of right now.

This is what can make a carb a good one = many natural vitamins/minerals come with it, same with fiber, low(er) GI index than the processed carb, germ still intact.



Eh, I think I'm being vague. It's too hot here to think. But in general carbohydrate containing foods (fruit, grains, most legumes/nuts/seeds too) are best in their natural state. Meaning, nothing peeled off, nothing cooked out, bleached away, cut off, drowned in added sugar or fat, etc.
VegAnna is offline  
#7 Old 08-21-2003, 08:52 PM
Banned
 
Max Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,612
I'll throw in my $.02 real quick, as I'm restructuring my diet right now: re: carbs: Second what kdb says re: small quantities. However, some should be even smaller, if not eliminated: Sodas, virtually anything "packaged to eat" (from pop tarts to lo-fat baked goods). Also, there are a few really good low-carb wheat/fiber breads out there. If you're like me and you don't want to give up sandwiches, they're certainly a reasonable alternative to *gag* Wonder Bread.
Max Power is offline  
#8 Old 08-21-2003, 09:18 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I believe in moderation in food.



As long as you have most of your fats as "good," then you are ok.



As long as you have most of your carbs from "good" sources (vegetables, whole grains, fruit), then you are ok. Don't worry about cooking, either. Some of them simply taste better cooked!



The problem with Canada/US is that we seem to think food must come in a pre-packaged box. I'm guilty of this, but I am trying to overcome it.
GhostUser is offline  
#9 Old 08-21-2003, 09:29 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I agree with Krista, everything in moderation. I guess that I try to follow a few rules, though. In general, I try to-



1. Eat a little bit of fat and protein as well as good carbs when I eat.



2. Try to eat stuff that is higher in fiber. Some things may look like they're whole grain when they're actually refined crap that's been colored. Paying attention to fiber content helps to weed these things out. I try to aim for stuff that has at least 3 grams of fiber a serving.



As far as figuring out how much fat to eat, you'll have to do some math with your calorie intake. You'd have to know how many total calories you take in daily as well as how many of those calories are from fat sources. Generally, fat intake should be around 20 to 30% of your total calories.
GhostUser is offline  
#10 Old 08-22-2003, 06:37 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Lothar M Kirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cologne
Posts: 2,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by kristadb View Post

As I understand it, it is the process of making the partially-hydrogenated/hydrogenated oils is the problem.



For example, McDonalds (I think) is planning to make their french fries 100% trans fat free.



In Canada, labelling of it will be out in the next 1-3 years (I forget when exactly). Canada health officials recommend that trans fat levels be as low as possible.

That´s right, Krista; but other fats might contain trans fatty acids as well. Butter contains trans fats as they develop in the rumen (one of the cow´s stoamchs) as bacteria digest polyunsaturated fatty acids. Another argument against milk and it´s products. Interstingly mare´s milk is free of trans fats and contain essential fats. Ghee, as used in India, might even contain more because of the additional heating process, but I don´t have a reliable source to proof it.

French fries were originally made in olive oil (no trans fats).

I hope for quick labeling, especially in the EU.


If I'm not answering quickly enough - leave a note on Twitter for @Rheumatologe
Lothar M Kirsch is offline  
#11 Old 08-22-2003, 06:42 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Lothar M Kirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cologne
Posts: 2,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower View Post

Generally, fat intake should be around 20 to 30% of your total calories.

Generally, I agree. People, who are trying to get rid of excess fat or who have a heart condition, should try to get into the 10-20% range.

If I'm not answering quickly enough - leave a note on Twitter for @Rheumatologe
Lothar M Kirsch is offline  
#12 Old 08-22-2003, 11:50 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
Okay...so why do fast food corps fry in hydrogenated oils??

I mean, Ive fried stuff at home and have had french fries fried in 100 percent canola oil (Burgerville), and its tasted just as good without the hydrogenated fat.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#13 Old 08-22-2003, 12:03 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
The *only* reason that I have found for companies using hydrogenated oils is that they hydrogenation of the oils make them last longer, thus they stay fresh for a lot longer than food made with regular oil does.



To me, it's sacrificing quantity for quality.
GhostUser is offline  
#14 Old 08-22-2003, 12:17 PM
Veggie Regular
 
dotnetdiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 262
The kind of fat that is good that people don't normally get is Omega-3. For vegetarians, this is flaxseed oil, you can also get it from walnuts, and a few other sources. Since I think flaxseed oil tastes icky just raw, I take it in capsule form. The flaxseeds contain lots of fiber and healthy lignans, you can throw them in your homemade breads or on top of cereal. I also buy foods like Natural Oven breads that contain Omega-3.



Omega-3 fatty acids are super healthy for you! They benefit your brain (make you smarter) and your cellular matrix, as well as being a powerful defense against cancer, heart disease, and digestive disorders. It benefits your skin. It even speeds up fat metabolism! I think of it as somewhat of a miracle food that most people don't know about. I supplement my dog with this, she gets dry skin without it.



Yes, hydrogenated oils are evil, they use them to keep things lasting longer. Oils that aren't hydrogenated can go rancid, which is also evil, so be sure to eat up your foods quickly that contain the healthy oils/fats.



All this nutrition talk is fascinating to me! For example, I now own 4 different books on healthy fats, so I know quite a bit about why I should be trying to incorporate them in my diet.
dotnetdiva is offline  
#15 Old 08-22-2003, 12:20 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Natural Ovens products are awesome! I live about 20 miles away from their bakery, so I took a tour one time. The smell was to die for!
GhostUser is offline  
#16 Old 08-22-2003, 12:48 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Quizeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,180
About Omega-3s, my husband mentioned that he thought sesame seeds were good source. I've never found any info to support this, usually flax, hemp, and walnuts are the only vegetarian sources mentioned in the nutrition literature I've seen. Are sesame seeds an Omega-3 source?
Quizeen is offline  
#17 Old 08-22-2003, 01:18 PM
Veggie Regular
 
giselle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quizeen View Post

About Omega-3s, my husband mentioned that he thought sesame seeds were good source. I've never found any info to support this, usually flax, hemp, and walnuts are the only vegetarian sources mentioned in the nutrition literature I've seen. Are sesame seeds an Omega-3 source?



Sesame contains omega-6 but only trace quantities of omega-3. Best plant sources of ALA omega-3 are as you stated: flax, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, etc.



Here is a nice site with some o-3 and o-6 charts with values:

http://www.annecollins.com/dietary-f...fa-6-chart.htm



Some purists feel that it's better to avoid processed oils entirely (including olive and canola oil) and just to concentrate on consuming a wide variety of whole foods including nuts, seeds, olives, and avocadoes.



Refined grains are not that bad. More than a billion people in the Far East derive the bulk of their calories from white rice! They have much lower incidences of obesity, type2 diabetes heart disease, and most types of cancer than Westerners. But, they also consume lots of vegetables and very little flesh or fat.
giselle is offline  
#18 Old 08-22-2003, 08:59 PM
Veggie Regular
 
JavaPrincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassypants View Post

With all of the "health" information that's floating around in the world, it can be really difficult to figure out what guidelines are the best to follow...I know there are a lot of really knowledgable people on these boards, so I thought I ask a couple of questions!



1)Fat. I know there are "good" fats and "bad" fats, and I think I do pretty well in that area (hummus, peanut butter, and avocado being some of my favorite "good" fat sources). However, I'm still not sure how much of this "good" fat I should be consuming. It is "bad" for you at all? Help!!



2) Carbohydrates--I'm really confused here. I've heard that carbohydrates convert to sugar during digestion, and that's why they're not healthy in large amounts. What about complex carbs like whole weat pastas/breads/brown rice/ect? What about fruit?

I'm working on phasing out all white pasta/bread/ect.--but yeah, I'm confused.



that's it for now folks. Thanks in advance.



just one thing to add to all the wise words



all carbs, and fats can be converted by the body into each other. so it really doesnt matter which you eat. yes whole grain 100% better than white processed flour. but the reasons that white flour is not good is not because it is so much unhealthy is that its energy stores are used much quicker. excess energy stores will be converted into fat. protein can alo be converted into energy. but nothing can be converted into protein. energy by the way is glucose or sugar. in order to fuction e need to break our food down into glucose for energy so that is a good thing not a bad thing. moderation really is the key. basically if you want a quick jolt eat a simple carb like white flour, fruit, and the like. if you want lasting energy eat fats, protein and complex carbs.. for the best eat a combination.



hope this helps



Say
JavaPrincess is offline  
#19 Old 08-23-2003, 08:27 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Lothar M Kirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cologne
Posts: 2,144
Quote:

Thanks for the interesting link!

If I'm not answering quickly enough - leave a note on Twitter for @Rheumatologe
Lothar M Kirsch is offline  
#20 Old 08-23-2003, 12:59 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaPrincess View Post

just one thing to add to all the wise words



all carbs, and fats can be converted by the body into each other. so it really doesnt matter which you eat. yes whole grain 100% better than white processed flour. but the reasons that white flour is not good is not because it is so much unhealthy is that its energy stores are used much quicker. excess energy stores will be converted into fat. protein can alo be converted into energy. but nothing can be converted into protein. energy by the way is glucose or sugar. in order to fuction e need to break our food down into glucose for energy so that is a good thing not a bad thing. moderation really is the key. basically if you want a quick jolt eat a simple carb like white flour, fruit, and the like. if you want lasting energy eat fats, protein and complex carbs.. for the best eat a combination.



hope this helps



Say



Question: what does the body do to store the energy into protein? Does it render it into glucose and then glycogen? or does it turn it into fat, or what?



ebola
ebola is offline  
#21 Old 08-23-2003, 01:21 PM
Veggie Regular
 
giselle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebola View Post

Question: what does the body do to store the energy into protein? Does it render it into glucose and then glycogen? or does it turn it into fat, or what?

ebola





The liver

-Converts fructose and galactose into glucose

-Converts excess glucose into glycogen. Excess glycogen is stored as fat

-Converts fat and protein into glucose when needed (during starvation)

-Converts excess carbohydrate and protein into fat

-Makes urea from excess protein
giselle is offline  
#22 Old 08-24-2003, 03:17 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by giselle View Post

The liver

-Converts fructose and galactose into glucose

-Converts excess glucose into glycogen. Excess glycogen is stored as fat

-Converts fat and protein into glucose when needed (during starvation)

-Converts excess carbohydrate and protein into fat

-Makes urea from excess protein



okay, so it is only during starvation that the body will use protein for energy?
ebola is offline  
#23 Old 08-24-2003, 01:21 PM
Veggie Regular
 
giselle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebola View Post

okay, so it is only during starvation that the body will use protein for energy?



Most experts think it's only during excessive stress-- starvation or very intense exercising. For more information, try googling glucogenesis and protein. Don't forget that excess calories in the form of protein will convert to fat.
giselle is offline  
#24 Old 08-24-2003, 04:40 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ebola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by giselle View Post

Most experts think it's only during excessive stress-- starvation or very intense exercising. For more information, try googling glucogenesis and protein. Don't forget that excess calories in the form of protein will convert to fat.



but in your little table, up there, you said excess protein would be metabolized into urea.

I guess I'll take a look in google.

thanks for the info.



ebola
ebola is offline  
#25 Old 08-24-2003, 05:41 PM
Veggie Regular
 
giselle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebola View Post

but in your little table, up there, you said excess protein would be metabolized into urea.

ebola



I listed them both the first time. They are not mutually exclusive.
giselle is offline  
#26 Old 08-25-2003, 09:58 AM
Veggie Regular
 
SystmDwnGrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,992
Man... I thought Id be able to get the white rice out of my diet...but I did it...all hail brown rice...and I love pasta... but I really really dont like whole wheat pasta ( I am working on it)....I do eat wheat bread.........now I just need to get the tortillas out of my diet too.. I know there are low carb tortillas but not only are they tre disgusting... but they are also $$$$spendy!!! anyone know any good brands of either whole wheat pasta or low carb tortillas?
SystmDwnGrl is offline  
#27 Old 08-25-2003, 10:22 AM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Garden of Eatin' has great whole wheat tortillas. I actually have some in the fridge right now.



Let's see- 120 calories each, 3 grams fat, 22 grams carbs, 2 grams fiber, 4 grams protein



Incredients- Organic whole wheat flour, water, organic soybean oil, sea salt, baking powder



I use them for everything- wraps, burritos, fajitas
GhostUser is offline  
#28 Old 08-25-2003, 10:25 AM
Veggie Regular
 
JavaPrincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 668
Protien is really a complex molecule, its the hardest thing for our body to convert so it saves it for last. it likes to hold onto it as is for as lond as posible, since it needs it for strength as well it is the basis of all the bodies muscles including the heart and brain. but yes excess is converted when necessesary and usually in starvation or deprevation conditions (like giselle said stress included cause you can use up your stores pretty quickly if your stressed)



SystmDwnGrl

cutting out all those carbs are just going to make you crave them more, but try whole wheat tortillas, i find they taste the same as white tortillas and cost the same.

and as for white pasta just rinse it well after cooking it to get rid of the excess starch. that way you get the taste you like and crave without the starchy exess.



Say
JavaPrincess is offline  
#29 Old 08-25-2003, 07:13 PM
Veggie Regular
 
giselle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 236
It bothers me that whole grains are so much more expensive than refined. I guess this is due to two things: lower demand and lower shelf life. Most people don't know that whole wheat flour, for example, is actually white flour with bran added back in. They don't add so much germ because it goes rancid so quickly. Anyway, it's very odd that this is so but it is a lot cheaper to buy white flour and add bran and germ to get the right balance for whole (something like 1 cup minus 3 T white flour + 2 T bran + 1 T germ is about like what one cup of true whole wheat would be). Same can be done for rice, white rice + a modest quantity of rice bran, which goes rancid quickly. If you plan on trying this, try to find the exact measures for true equivalents, buy only small quantities, store in dark containers in the fridge, and use up what you get quickly.



Wheat bran and germ are easy to find (don't get the germ from a clear plastic bulk bin, it's probably at least semi-rancid), but rice bran is more difficult. It can be ordered online from Bob's Red Mill for a decent price.



Here is a great article on grains, a must read--

http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/Publications/EAP35.htm
giselle is offline  
#30 Old 08-27-2003, 10:59 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Lothar M Kirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cologne
Posts: 2,144
I think I can dump this here: People believe they developped a healthier French fry, "which contains less than half the carbohydrate content of regular fries".

The whole story:

http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/news.asp?id=8197



So is it half the carbs and double the fats? Sounds very convincing to be healthier!

If I'm not answering quickly enough - leave a note on Twitter for @Rheumatologe
Lothar M Kirsch is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off