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#1 Old 08-12-2003, 08:20 AM
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i am finding that while i am adjusting to this new vegan lifestyle that i am snacking on a lot of foods, i.e i'll fry some mushrooms to add to a pitta with salad, or falafel - again fried.



i did some tofu last night - fried with mushrooms and made a pasta sauce of it.



it's struck me that a lot of food is fried more than i would have done before. what is the best oil that i can get to stop me gaining unnecessary calories from this? i have a lo cal spray that is great for mushrooms etc, but it won't be enough for tofu.



i used to use garlic and sun dried tomato olive oil, don't know why i stopped buying them tbh, but am sure that the veg oil that i use now is not as healthy an option as it could be.



suggestions pls?
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#2 Old 08-12-2003, 09:04 AM
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Olive oil is often the best kind of oil to use. It's very healthy oil. i'm no nutritionist, bu ti know that olive oil is full o' the good fats.



However, it's not always practical to use olive oil, due to its low smoke point. Therefore, frying in olive oil is a bad idea. For high temperature applications such as frying, you're best off going with an oil with ahigher smoke point such as canola, sunflower or avocado oil. I have no idea how healthy these oils are though.
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#3 Old 08-12-2003, 09:11 AM
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> stop me gaining unnecessary calories from this



All oil has the same amount of calories, even so-called fat-free sprays. (The reason that sprays consisting of oil and a propellant can call themselves fat free is beacause one spray is small enough that the amount of fat in a serving satisfies the legal definition of fat free. If you coat an entire pan with it, you're getting the same amount of fat as if you'd used an equal weight of oil.)



Oils that are liquid at room temperature (olive, canola, safflower, peanut, etc.) are all pretty good for you because they're low in saturated fat. Some people feel that commercial oils are bad for you because of the heat and solvents used to extract them. If you believe this, you should look for cold-pressed or expeller-pressed oils.
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#4 Old 08-12-2003, 11:46 AM
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I agree with Loki concerning olice oil. Oils high in polyunsaturated fatty acids as flaxseed oil, safflower oil, canola oil, hemp oil, walnut oil shouldn´t be used for frying; I don´t even heat them. Olive oil has a low smoke point, so if you use much heat you need another oil like palm oil or coconut oil, which are rich in saturated fatty acids and have a higher smoke point. But these oils aren´t very healthy and high temperature frying isn´t either.

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#5 Old 08-12-2003, 11:59 AM
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If you are going to use canola oil to fry (olive oil really doesn't work well) organic expeller pressed canola oil is the healthiest. I don't personally use it because I almost never fry, but, I hear it works well. Canola oil is derived from rapeseed, (I am pretty sure) and I guess the rapeseed is highly coated with chemicals and pesticides, so the organic is best. Canola oil is regarded as second best to olive oil as far as conventional oils are concerned. (there are other more exotic ones, such as macadamia nut oil, but I don't know how those stack up.)
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#6 Old 08-12-2003, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainbowmoon

Canola oil is derived from rapeseed, (I am pretty sure) and I guess the rapeseed is highly coated with chemicals and pesticides, so the organic is best. Canola oil is regarded as second best to olive oil as far as conventional oils are concerned.



Yup, canola is rapeseed oil. They gave it a more marketable name, thinking the "rape" in rapeseed would turn off consumers. "Can" in canola refers to Canada
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#7 Old 08-12-2003, 01:35 PM
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cheers for ur replies peeps. i'd like to add that i don't fry everything! honest! lolz



gonna go back to olive oil methinks
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#8 Old 08-12-2003, 01:46 PM
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>>there are other more exotic ones, such as macadamia nut oil, but I don't know how those stack up.>>



Who would waste the macadamia nut as an "oil seed"?

Furthermore, why do we so tirely waste the soybean in pursuit of soybean oil?



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#9 Old 08-12-2003, 01:52 PM
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you know, if you're concerned about frying, you can bake or broil things instead. (i make oven fries that are simply tossed in a small amount of oil before baking), and you can actually sautee things in a couple of tablespoons of water or veggie stock or even juice.
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#10 Old 08-12-2003, 02:10 PM
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I have to wonder how high some of you have your burners going. I fry (saute) in a little oilve oil at low (about 3 on the dial with 9 being max) . I'm using an electric stove so these things might not mean anything (and different stoves are different. My parents stove is hotter and is too hot at 3 compared to what my stove is like so I'm probably cooking at quite low) . Anyway, my oil seems to stay well behaved and doesn't smoke. I never turn it above low though.



---------------------

"i make oven fries that are simply tossed in a small amount of oil before baking"

------------------



Yeah I put my chopped potatos in the oven pan, pour a bit of olive oil on and smear them all so they are all just very thinly covered ( ie , not sitting in a pool of oil ;-) ) and then season them. Bake them until golden .....mmmmmmmmm. No deep frying and no hydrogenated oils. I suppose in this case the thin coating of olive oil gets mush hotter as I put them on like 500 in the oven.



I'll have to read up on whether there's any unhealthy molecular changes to the oil at these temperatures
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#11 Old 08-12-2003, 02:55 PM
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yum! ask a question and i get recipes to boot! hehe



cheers
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#12 Old 08-12-2003, 03:55 PM
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"ask a question and i get recipes to boot! hehe"...





you mean the home fries ? It[s quite simple (I use salt and pepper) and they are the best fries I've ever had IMHO ...... way better than New York fries (food court places ioddly enough mostly in Canada and not in tyhe US .... which are greasy and deep fried in hydrogenated oil so yucky)
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#13 Old 08-12-2003, 03:58 PM
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my method is to place the cut up potatoes in a bowl and toss them with the oil, spices (parsley, paprika, garlic, salt and pepper) and some untoasted sesame seeds, until they are coated. then i bake them at 425 for about 20 minutes, turning now and again, until they are browned and crispy.



i agree with dk_art, they are better than any deep fried potatoes i've ever had.
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#14 Old 08-12-2003, 04:09 PM
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you mentioned that you eat falafel - you can always bake it instead of frying it too! I do it all of the time...
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#15 Old 08-12-2003, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Faery Girl

you mentioned that you eat falafel - you can always bake it instead of frying it too! I do it all of the time...



true, i just gotta be more patient i guess munch an apple or a carrot while i'm waiting for it hehe
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#16 Old 08-12-2003, 04:59 PM
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It's not necessary to use high heat to fry things. I sautee everything (almost) in about a tbsp of olive oil, and never have the heat on High. Whatever you're cooking will cook on med to low heat.



Olive oil is great. Buy it in the big square can, that way the light never gets to it, it tastes better, and you'll save money by buying "bulk". I save about 5 bucks by buying it in the can, from buying smaller glass bottles of it more often. Cold Press Extra Virgin is what you want.
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#17 Old 08-12-2003, 06:14 PM
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" Cold Press Extra Virgin is what you want.:





and if you see like some white stuff floating around the bottom of the bottle , that's normal .





I prefer these squarish bottles as Im collecting the bottles for making something later ;-)
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#18 Old 08-12-2003, 06:53 PM
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Baking falafel can sometimes work. I bake the M&S falafel that I purchase, as it's the best way to cook it. But if you don't get ready made falafel, then the bestway to cook it is with hot oil.



I don't worry baout the healthiness of oils. Vegetable oils don't contain cholesterol, so they're pretty much OK, whatever you use. It's just more practical to use canola or sunflower oil for frying somehting like falafel.
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#19 Old 08-12-2003, 11:34 PM
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why does cooking on high make something bad for you?

heh, i'm impatient..
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#20 Old 08-13-2003, 12:01 AM
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"why does cooking on high make something bad for you?"





this page is interesting but I can't say I'm totally up on the chemistry fully ;-)



See the bottom especially





http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/...ne/lipids.html
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#21 Old 08-14-2003, 07:31 PM
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Refined high-oleic safflower is good for frying. It has a high smoking point (about 450F). And, like olive oil, it's high in monounsaturates and low in omega-6 (recommended by nutritionists). Although "refined" is generally a negative word in nutrition refined oils are the best for frying because they have higher smoking points.



It's extremely important that when frying you don't allow the oil to smoke. When the oil smokes it breaks down and toxic products are formed.



Like other people have said, all fats/oils have about the same amount of calories. To reduce calories from fat you can try using less oil in frying or try using other ways of preparation like steaming.
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#22 Old 08-15-2003, 12:41 PM
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i always thought that olive oil had a really high smoke point. curious.



i use extra virgin olive oil for pretty much any cooking i do. i love the stuff. i put it on popcorn (w/ nutritional yeast, flax seed oil, salt and pepper), too.
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#23 Old 08-15-2003, 01:27 PM
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Extra virgin olive oil isn't the best choice for high temperature cooking because it's unrefined. But it's an excellent choice for low temperature or no cooking applications. Whenever possible it's best to use unrefined oils; they still have the phytochemicals. But, unfortunately, unrefined oils have lower smoking points.
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#24 Old 08-15-2003, 08:09 PM
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There is refined olive oil. But, I don't see it mentioned as one of the better oils for high temperature cooking. And I've tried but haven't been able to find what it's smoking point is.



Refined: high-oleic sunflower oil, high-oleic safflower oil and super (high-oleic) canola oil all have high smoking points. Where I live, I have to go to a health-foods store to find them though. They are rather expensive but I don't use much oil.



Peanut oil has a high smoking point but it's not as high in monounsaturated fat as the oils listed above.
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#25 Old 08-16-2003, 08:42 AM
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While some oils are better health wise than others (olive oil), they all have the same amount of calories. In terms of calories, fat is fat. In terms of health though, there's a difference. I only use olive oil for frying.



B
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#26 Old 08-16-2003, 08:43 AM
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Oh, thanks for the information kyo!
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#27 Old 08-17-2003, 02:54 AM
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Loki said



Quote:
Olive oil is often the best kind of oil to use. It's very healthy oil. i'm no nutritionist, bu ti know that olive oil is full o' the good fats.



However, it's not always practical to use olive oil, due to its low smoke point. Therefore, frying in olive oil is a bad idea. For high temperature applications such as frying, you're best off going with an oil with ahigher smoke point such as canola, sunflower or avocado oil. I have no idea how healthy these oils are though.



I agree with you. I've also heard that avocado oil has a very high smoking point. But I don't know very much about it (other than it's very expensive). I can tell you about canola and sunflower oil though.



There are two types of canola, sunflower and safflower oils: regular and high-oleic. High-oleic means high in monounsaturated fats. High-oleic canola, high-oleic sunflower and high-oleic safflower all have very good fat makeups, simular to olive oil. They are high in monounsaturated fats and low in omega-6. Nuritionists recommend that we use oils high in monounsaturated fat for our hearth health.



And, although omega-6 is an essential fat (required by our bodies) too much of a good thing can cause problems. And people on Western diets generally consume too much omega-6 and nutritionists recommend we cut down. This is especially true for vegans. Like olive oil, these high-oleic oils are low in omega-6.



The regular (high-linoleic) safflower and sunflower oils composition isn't nearly as good. They are much lower in monounsaturated fats and much higher in omega-6. The regular canola oil has a good composition but not as good as the high-oleic version.
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#28 Old 08-17-2003, 07:00 AM
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Kyo, you said

Quote:
Extra virgin olive oil isn't the best choice for high temperature cooking because it's unrefined.

I didn´t know that there´s a significant difference between the refined and unrefined version. As for Germany canola, sunflower and safflower oils come in refined versions, which I think of less nutrional value as they don´t contain phytochemicals. As for their use for frying they could be used (the "regular", low PUFA versions). I don´t fry anything at high temperatures, but for simmering I use extra virgin olive oil.

Does anyone know if frying temperatures are lower for veggies as compared to meat? I´d guess yes, but I don´t know for sure.

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#29 Old 08-17-2003, 10:07 AM
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"It's not necessary to use high heat to fry things. I sautee everything (almost) in about a tbsp of olive oil, and never have the heat on High. Whatever you're cooking will cook on med to low heat."



The problem is that no matter how low you put the flame, the oil tends to reach the same high temperature, or very near to it -- it just takes a little longer to do so. For the most part, when cooking over a flame or burner of any sort, it is the material in the pot that determines how hot the material in the pot gets, not anything else. Water will not get over 100 degrees C, 212 degrees F -- without evaporating. So anything you cook in a pot of water, won't get any hotter than the water surrounding it. Oil will go way over 400 degrees F, 200 degrees C, before it starts burning away (it will burn before it turns into a gas -- I think you'd have to heat it in a vacuum to get it to go to gas).
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#30 Old 08-17-2003, 01:25 PM
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Lothar M Kirsch, there is a very significant difference between refined and unrefined oils. Refined oils have much higher smoking points. Please click on the link at the bottom of this post and view the chart.



It's also true that in the US canola, sunflower and safflower oils are usually refined. I have seen unrefined versions but they are harder to find. Most olive oils I've seen here are extra virgin so they are unrefined. Sure, refined oils don't have phytochemicals. But, I would rather not have phytochemicals that have my oil reach the smoking point and form toxins. Here is a quote from "Becoming Vegan"



Quote:
When oils are subject to high temperature cooking (i.e., when they start to smoke), fats--especially unsaturated fatty acids--are damaged and a number of toxic products are formed. These substances can damage the liver, circulatory system, and the kidneys



If there is water in the pan or if the pan is full of items containing water then the temperature tends to be limited and I'm sure extra virgin olive oil would be OK. But as you know before putting any ingredients in the pan people usually get the oil hot first. It could get very hot if the person isn't careful.



Soilman, sorry but I don't agree with most of what you say.



Quote:
"It's not necessary to use high heat to fry things. I sautee everything (almost) in about a tbsp of olive oil, and never have the heat on High. Whatever you're cooking will cook on med to low heat."



Yeah but people do fry on high heat. I've seen recipes where they tell you to wait until the oil smokes before adding the ingredients. And when I've fried I've seen the oil smoke.



Quote:
The problem is that no matter how low you put the flame, the oil tends to reach the same high temperature, or very near to it



I don't buy that. When you set the burner higher the oil does get hotter.



Quote:
Water will not get over 100 degrees C, 212 degrees F -- without evaporating. So anything you cook in a pot of water, won't get any hotter than the water surrounding it.



That's true but we aren't talking about cooking in water. However if you have the pot full of ingredients containg water the temperature will be limited.



Quote:
Oil will go way over 400 degrees F, 200 degrees C, before it starts burning away



Not true. Here is a list of smoking points for various oils (please click on link below). Oils smoking points range from 225°F to 520°F. Extra virgin olive oil (a type of unrefined olive oil) has a smoking point below 320°F.



Smoking Points of Oils
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