The China Study (merged) - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 04-19-2006, 04:51 PM
Beginner
 
Sharon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 191
Not really pro-raw as much as pro-plant food, but a great book neverthelss.



Many in-depth studies and comparisons of an animal vs. a plant food diet, and high vs. low protein. Also how plant protein is far better than animal protein. Lots of great info on diseases...heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer in relation to diet. Tons of charts and graphs comparing diets and disease all over the world, etc.



I am not able to renew at the library so I'll be looking for a cheap used copy somewhere - this is definately a wonderful reference book and would make a great gift for anyone. I am sorry that I waited so long to read it!



So many years of research has gone into this book it would turn around nearly any skeptic.
Sharon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 04-19-2006, 05:06 PM
Newbie
 
NiniJan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 40
The China Project is like a "Cliff Notes" for The China Study. A friend handed copies out to us at the last raw potluck. I agree. It is important information!
NiniJan is offline  
#3 Old 04-19-2006, 07:19 PM
Veggie Regular
 
rawgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,064
The China Study is excellent. I think everybody should read it. It should be required reading in schools. Dr. Colin Campbell came last fall and spoke at Hippocrates, where I work, and I got to hear a little bit of it. It was really interesting.
rawgirl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 04-19-2006, 07:26 PM
Veggie Regular
 
THX-1138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 331
I haven't read it yet, but I've been meaning to for sometime now. I've heard lots of good things about it.
THX-1138 is offline  
#5 Old 04-19-2006, 07:50 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Fyvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,664
I got this book in the mail last week. I've been letting my mom read it, and she's hooked so I haven't had much time with it yet. What I did read has been very interesting. And it's got my mom *very* interested in a plant based diet
Fyvel is offline  
#6 Old 04-19-2006, 10:03 PM
Beginner
 
Sharon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 191
I regret letting it sit around before I started to read it, now I need to cram before I have to return it to the library.
Sharon is offline  
#7 Old 04-22-2006, 04:25 PM
Veggie Regular
 
theatregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 313
I've just started reading this book. Wow, it is powerful stuff and has really motivated me to eat healthier! I went out for an Italian meal tonight and didn't have a dessert. It has totally put me off! When I look at all that saturated fat now I just think "heart disease". The China Study is a truly excellent and informative read on adopting a healthy plant based diet.



theatregirl is offline  
#8 Old 04-22-2006, 04:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
rawgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,064
I know. It's a great book! It should be required reading.
rawgirl is offline  
#9 Old 04-22-2006, 07:13 PM
Veggie Regular
 
ChelsRm007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 369
I've been reading it off and on for a while too. Totally amazing!
ChelsRm007 is offline  
#10 Old 04-23-2006, 03:07 PM
Beginner
 
hannahbanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 126
I just started it a few days ago, and...I dunno. Not as impressive as I was expecting. To me, it reads like a typical diet book - I guess as a scientist I was expecting it to just sound more scientific. I'm gonna have to go look up some of the scientific journal articles he keeps talking about. I agree though that the information seems quite good.
hannahbanana is offline  
#11 Old 04-23-2006, 03:19 PM
Veggie Regular
 
theatregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 313
I'm really enjoying reading The China Study. It has been a real eye opener.



theatregirl is offline  
#12 Old 04-24-2006, 02:19 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TreeManEarthSteward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahbanana View Post

I just started it a few days ago, and...I dunno. Not as impressive as I was expecting. To me, it reads like a typical diet book - I guess as a scientist I was expecting it to just sound more scientific.

You're a scientist for a living ?....or did you make a gramma trangression?
TreeManEarthSteward is offline  
#13 Old 04-24-2006, 06:56 AM
Beginner
 
hannahbanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 126
Haha, well, I'm in training I guess...I'm just finishing up my undergrad degree (two weeks left of classes! woo!!) and in August I start graduate school (going for my Ph.D.) in biochemistry. I actually study protein too (although on a molecular level, nothing to do with nutrition).



I didn't mean to sound critical of the book, it has great information and is well written so that it's accessible to a general readership. I was just surprised because from what I had read about it I was expecting it to have more of a "sciencey" feel to it. Like for example - he gives lots of charts and graphs of his results but doesn't go too much into experimental design, which I would find really interesting (I'm only on page 60 something though so maybe it will get more detailed). I'm in a class right now with a heavy emphasis on primary literature - we basically just read scientific journal articles and discuss them. And in the book he pretty much boils down what would probably be a 10-20 page paper into maybe two paragraphs and a graph.



So, like I said - I really have no quibble with the book, I think it is great for communicating the results of the studies to a general reader, along with some very basic scientific background. For my own personal interest, I'll probably check out some of his journal articles just to get a little more detail. Mostly the book was just different than I expected - still very good though.



~Hannah
hannahbanana is offline  
#14 Old 04-24-2006, 08:05 AM
Veggie Regular
 
theatregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 313
I don't think it would be a bestseller reaching to the masses if it was too sciency though. Whilst backing up all the statements he made in the book with scientific fact, he also had to make it accessible to everyone. I think the tempo is just right for the audience it is aimed at.
theatregirl is offline  
#15 Old 04-24-2006, 08:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
I look forward to checking out this book when it comes out in paperback in June. BUT I will be reading it very critically, as I've already ready some very negative reviews claiming the author was very selective in only mentioning data that supported his own agenda and leaving out all information which contradicted his theories. Many people seem to recommend reading the study itself, and not this book, due to the bias.



I'd like to know more about the author. Is he a vegan? Was he a vegetarian before he started the survey?

I've read some his articles at http://www.nutritionadvocate.com/sea...pbell&f=author and found them suspect at best.



I do have the book on my Want To Get list though, and am hoping it proves to be a reliable and useful source of information. We'll see....
kpickell is offline  
#16 Old 04-24-2006, 10:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Fyvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

I look forward to checking out this book when it comes out in paperback in June. BUT I will be reading it very critically, as I've already ready some very negative reviews claiming the author was very selective in only mentioning data that supported his own agenda and leaving out all information which contradicted his theories. Many people seem to recommend reading the study itself, and not this book, due to the bias.



I'd like to know more about the author. Is he a vegan? Was he a vegetarian before he started the survey?

I've read some his articles at http://www.nutritionadvocate.com/sea...pbell&f=author and found them suspect at best.



I do have the book on my Want To Get list though, and am hoping it proves to be a reliable and useful source of information. We'll see....





Ah, but that's to be suspected. Take any subject at all and you'll have studies which say opposite things. Anyone trying to prove a point is sure to focus on those studies that support their view. Though it would be nice if they addressed the conflicting studies, and their theories on why the results were what they were. As for those who were criticizing him - what were their agendas? Just something to think about.



As a bit of a (non-practicing) "scientist" myself, I suspect I will be interested in the book only as a summary and I will use his references to get more details on the matter. But I have to pry the book away from my mother first (something that won't happen until she finishes it, I suspect)
Fyvel is offline  
#17 Old 04-24-2006, 11:23 PM
Veggie Regular
 
CarbLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post


I'd like to know more about the author. Is he a vegan? Was he a vegetarian before he started the survey?

I've read some his articles at http://www.nutritionadvocate.com/sea...pbell&f=author and found them suspect at best.

The author is vegan but he became vegan as a result of his scientific research. He tells you multiple times about how he was from a dairy farming family and was raised to believe that meat and dairy were essential, etc. The book was interesting but I did see obvious bias. For example in one part of the book he says that you should always eat whole foods and never take supplements because the vitamins in isolation just aren't as good, then in another part he says you should be vegan and take a B12 supplement because that's the only way to get B12. Also none of the people in the actual China study were 100% vegan, but he just assumed that if eating a low amount of animal products was better than eating a high amount than eating none would be best. Anyway the book is interesting and I am glad I read it, but I'm still not convinced that being vegan is the healthiest thing for everybody.
CarbLover is offline  
#18 Old 04-24-2006, 11:42 PM
Newbie
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I wanted this book for months. When I finally got it, I cuddled in bed and read it for hours.



I have to say it is very good, but lost me along the way just a little. Maybe my ADD kicked in.
GhostUser is offline  
#19 Old 04-25-2006, 02:48 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TreeManEarthSteward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahbanana View Post

I was expecting it to have more of a "sciencey" feel to it. Like for example - he gives lots of charts and graphs of his results but doesn't go too much into experimental design, which I would find really interesting (I'm only on page 60 something though so maybe it will get more detailed).



I'll probably check out some of his journal articles just to get a little more detail. Mostly the book was just different than I expected - still very good though.



~Hannah

Cool about your study Brianna hannah banana!.... Is that your full name? If your real name is not Brianna, its an idea for you nontheless!



And yo, I wonder does The China Study book man have a blog or website ?....If you find out, tell us or me a bit about what you read, I have no clue what this is all about yet. Anyways, tell me what you gain from 'the detail'... What extra interest Hannah do you expect to find in particular, sciency or otherwise?



I know kpickell posts thisthis link BUT I'm talking about a "personal blog" which the man may have or something of that nature, which may show slightly alternative perspectives (I don't know) OR maybe as instance, better updates of stuff or whatever which may give novelty factor for our curiousity of what he might (something or other) write about maybe informally in his own time. Just a thought



ps, So what if this is a dumb question-- I'll ask anyway~ cAN, aS iI aM nEW tO tHIS concept or project or wHATEVER iT iS ~ cAN somebody tell me what the hell is 'CHINA' to do with it?.... Stating the obvious, I would hazard a guess the author is Chinese and therefore conducts most of his study based on the chinese population, or started publishing in China

before going worldwide on the net and thru his book, OR NO?... Is that not how things developed ?... How much is China to do with it, etc ?
TreeManEarthSteward is offline  
#20 Old 04-25-2006, 03:18 AM
Veggie Regular
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbLover View Post

The author is vegan but he became vegan as a result of his scientific research. He tells you multiple times about how he was from a dairy farming family and was raised to believe that meat and dairy were essential, etc. The book was interesting but I did see obvious bias. For example in one part of the book he says that you should always eat whole foods and never take supplements because the vitamins in isolation just aren't as good, then in another part he says you should be vegan and take a B12 supplement because that's the only way to get B12. Also none of the people in the actual China study were 100% vegan, but he just assumed that if eating a low amount of animal products was better than eating a high amount than eating none would be best. Anyway the book is interesting and I am glad I read it, but I'm still not convinced that being vegan is the healthiest thing for everybody.

Thanks for the info.
kpickell is offline  
#21 Old 04-25-2006, 02:26 PM
Veggie Regular
 
theatregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by goettling View Post

I wanted this book for months. When I finally got it, I cuddled in bed and read it for hours.





Me too!
theatregirl is offline  
#22 Old 04-26-2006, 06:42 PM
Beginner
 
hannahbanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 126
Haha - Va~Goth~UK - my name's not Brianna, just Hannah, but I'll keep it in mind.



It's called The China Study because he did most of his nutritional research with people in rural China. He also did some studies in the Philippines and Taiwan, so it's not entirely based in China, that's just where the vast majority of his studies were done.



I admit I haven't done much reading since my last post (my senior honors thesis is due Monday), and certainly haven't gotten around to looking at the articles. But I'm interested in things like experimental design, like what controls were used, whether the studies were "blind" or "double blind" (i.e. did the researchers know which test subjects had which diet, so that they could subconsciously cherry pick data that supported their hypotheses), and their thoughts about why animal protein is carcinogenic while plant protein is not. And like I said, I'm still only about 60 pages in so maybe this is addressed in the book. But I don't know, I have a hard time believing that any results as dramatic as his wouldn't be getting a lot more press - if his results are accurate that is. I mean, come on - I don't care how much power the meat industry has, if you demonstrate that a certain diet causes a 100% reduction in cancer rates, that is BIG NEWS. So basically I'm just surprised we haven't heard about his study, and I'm curious to see if I can find some error in his reasearch or something that would cast doubt on his results.



An analogy - one of my mom's friends gave her a book for me to look at, she was curious what I thought about it. It was basically some guy with no scientific background who claimed that water had a "memory" - if you took a bottle of water and wrote a word like "love" on the outside, it would make pretty water crystals, and if you wrote the word "hate" on the outside, it would make ugly or not fully formed crystals. His book was full of pictures supposedly demonstrating this - so my mom's friend was spending a ton of money on this special water that I guess was supposed to be....happier? Or something. Of course there were tons of problems with his methodology and it was a completely ridiculous proposal, but you wouldn't know that just from reading the book.



Anyway, my point is, scientific works are tough to evaluate - you have to really understand exactly how every experiment was carried out in order to fully trust the results. If all the science in The China Study is valid, then it's some pretty phenomenal stuff, and the book is really well-written for communicating his results to a general audience. If it's not valid - well, then the book is un-detailed enough that he can get away with making this spectacular claims because you don't really know how he's getting his data.



Sorry, that was a really long-winded response. Hopefully I'll have the time soon to look into his other articles in more detail - and I really do hope he's right, it'd be awesome to know that being veg cures cancer!



~Hannah
hannahbanana is offline  
#23 Old 04-26-2006, 09:19 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Fyvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,664
Hannah, have you examined any of the specific studies he references in the book? I'm sure some have more impressive results than others, which would narrow down the search. I haven't had a chance to really look at the book yet (my mom still has it haha), but this is what I plan on doing once I get my hands on it, assuming I have some free time. I'm assuming that you must have access to your university library to look up the journals.. and even without that, there is always Highwire Press...
Fyvel is offline  
#24 Old 04-26-2006, 09:43 PM
Newbie
 
Kintama2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 30
The vegeteble in china isn't the high quality as it is in Japan. Japan has the best and juiciest vegeteble and fruit and is more expensive but better for the Japanese body then Chinas.
Kintama2000 is offline  
#25 Old 04-27-2006, 04:39 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TreeManEarthSteward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,895
I know you may not mean this in your statement Kintama, but here's an odd sounding question: MAYBE the japanese body and dietry needs are best met (or fed) with only the best vegetable types, which is to say you japanese are accustomed to certain vegetables and therefore prosper best on foods of Eastern origin, do you mean to suggest this or I am the one being ridiculous for twisting the question? ETA: as for China foods compared to yours in Japan, this could work as a good example. Chinese can look thin certainly, not that there's anything wrong with that. My concern for chinese would simply be are they getting enough nutrition in their supposedly lesser quality foods.



I guess I'm being silly in part, but there could be some truth that different foods work for different cultures. I don't know, its an interesting question though nontheless. The obvious sense in what we say is that foods best known to us and what we eat the most will help adapt a body (of whichever culture).... that is for sure, but how much diet really makes us who we are is the more simple question to ask!...

Or not as a question, but as this>> YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT
TreeManEarthSteward is offline  
#26 Old 04-27-2006, 04:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
TreeManEarthSteward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyvel View Post

I'm assuming that you must have access to your university library to look up the journals.. and even without that, there is always Highwire Press...

And what is Highwire Press please? Where, on the net? Is it a semi private source/ or a special access to information for students or open to the public universally? or which?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannah View Post

Sorry, that was a really long-winded response. Hopefully I'll have the time soon to look into his other articles in more detail - and I really do hope he's right, it'd be awesome to know that being veg cures cancer!

Nah, don't apologize about your length of reply, I like reading someone who is enthusastic about what they're saying, who is sceptic as well as objective; keep it up! and good luck checking out what you hope to find out, I'll be on the button in a layed back approach though I never made a great student unless I am at liberty to define how learning takes place, hehe but if you find interesting thesis or testament about ChinaStudy results, that support it or negate it, by all means throw it on VB for us to read please!
TreeManEarthSteward is offline  
#27 Old 04-27-2006, 09:52 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Fyvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA~goth~UK View Post

And what is Highwire Press please? Where, on the net? Is it a semi private source/ or a special access to information for students or open to the public universally? or which?



It's open to anyone with an internet connection (and a program for opening .pdf files).



Highwire Press
Fyvel is offline  
#28 Old 04-27-2006, 12:42 PM
Veggie Regular
 
TreeManEarthSteward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,895
How did you come to know about High Wire Press ?
TreeManEarthSteward is offline  
#29 Old 04-27-2006, 01:05 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Fyvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA~goth~UK View Post

How did you come to know about High Wire Press ?





It was pointed out to me by a professor of mine at university. I think it's a nifty little search program, especially for those without access to a library with academic journals.
Fyvel is offline  
#30 Old 04-27-2006, 03:15 PM
 
IamJen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,134
There were two pretty healthy discussion going on about the China Study..threads are merged now. Just FYI in case there is some discontinuity.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
IamJen is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off