Genderless birth control thread - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-15-2005, 03:27 PM
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I know i am not a woman, but I would like to mention that I am eagerly reading this thread because my wife and I are in the same quandry. We don't want to use hormonal birth control, and using condoms with spermicide has produced two children (oops!).



I also feel like the burden of birth control is placed largely on the lap of women, and because of that, the options are heavily limited and problematic.



I am certainly going to report back to my wife with the information you post on here. She hates going online, and will appreciate your research! Thank you!



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#2 Old 11-15-2005, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodolfox View Post

I know i am not a woman, but I would like to mention that I am eagerly reading this thread because my wife and I are in the same quandry. We don't want to use hormonal birth control, and using condoms with spermicide has produced two children (oops!).



I also feel like the burden of birth control is placed largely on the lap of women, and because of that, the options are heavily limited and problematic.



I am certainly going to report back to my wife with the information you post on here. She hates going online, and will appreciate your research! Thank you!



NOTE: Mods, feel free to delete if a post by a man is not welcome in these threads.



If you plan to have no more children, why dont you get a vasectomy?
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#3 Old 11-15-2005, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovemydragon View Post

If you plan to have no more children, why dont you get a vasectomy?



I am adverse to elective surgeries.





PS. Any further inquiries will be PM's, as I don't want to hijack this thread. In that light, please PM me those questions, or else start a version of this thread elsewhere.
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#4 Old 11-15-2005, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by xrodolfox View Post

I am adverse to elective surgeries.





PS. Any further inquiries will be PM's, as I don't want to hijack this thread. In that light, please PM me those questions, or else start a version of this thread elsewhere.





Your PM box has exceeded it's limit.
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#5 Old 11-15-2005, 04:18 PM
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Rodolfo, its hardly a surgery, it will be so easy and over with quickly. its your best best if you dont want any more children.



I liked the diaphragm by my husband could feel it and found it unpleasant. its bigger than you'd expect, but it fits well once its put in properly.
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#6 Old 11-15-2005, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by xrodolfox View Post

I am adverse to elective surgeries.



In most cases, abortion is also an elective surgical procedure and I've read you advocate for them in some cases - having a vasectomy would be much less invasive, I'd think.
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#7 Old 11-15-2005, 09:58 PM
 
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Split posts from Stellar's thread in the Women's Health forum.

The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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#8 Old 11-15-2005, 11:12 PM
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I noticed that Today's Sponge is back on the market. Does anyone know why it was off the market?
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#9 Old 11-15-2005, 11:21 PM
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It was too expensive for the company to manufacture, apparently...



http://www.health.com/health/qanda/0...090442,00.html



But I thought I remembered that bits of the sponge were staying in women's vaginas and causing infections or higher incidents of TSS...?? Anyone know?



In any case, the sponge is vegan.
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#10 Old 11-15-2005, 11:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SallyK View Post

I noticed that Today's Sponge is back on the market. Does anyone know why it was off the market?



I was curious about this recently, too. Apparently there was a problem with contaminated water in the production plant. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...y-sponge_x.htm
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#11 Old 11-15-2005, 11:22 PM
 
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Oops! Double post. And both posts involved the word "apparently".
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#12 Old 11-15-2005, 11:37 PM
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I agree with the others and the vasectomy. If you don't want hormonal birth control it is your best bet. You could keep using condoms, but I guess they haven't always worked for you.



You could also look into an IUD. I don't know a whole lot about them, just that they are a form of long term birth control.
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#13 Old 11-16-2005, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyK View Post

I noticed that Today's Sponge is back on the market. Does anyone know why it was off the market?





I used that years ago. It works much like a diaphragm.
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#14 Old 11-16-2005, 07:44 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/05/sponge.returns.ap/



you girls are both right. there was a problem with the facility and it would have cost too much to upgrade.



i'm sure zoebird will be along presently to chime in about fertility awareness!



i would also second the vasectomy (not just for you, rodolfo, but for any male who doesn't wish to have children at any point). it is such a simple procedure with a pretty quick recovery time too, from what i hear, and then you just don't have to worry about things.



i think things like sponges/ diaphragms, cervical caps are great but they are also less effective than BCP (which i don't advocate) and condoms (which i do). their effectiveness runs about 85%, so they should be combined with another method when most fertile.
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#15 Old 11-16-2005, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winking_turtle View Post

In most cases, abortion is also an elective surgical procedure and I've read you advocate for them in some cases - having a vasectomy would be much less invasive, I'd think.



Hey, I am for drug legalization but I don't use recreational drugs (alcohol, caffeine all included). The fact that I advocate for free and legal abortions doesn't mean that that is the road I prefer.



I take elective surgeries, as well as OTC medicine (and prescription medicine), very seriously. I always consider my options, and rarely take anything unless my life depends on it. In that spirit, I would like to consider other options to surgery for birth control. What I've read about IUD's sounds interesting, but not ideal either. I read long ago that IUD's may increase incidence of uterine cancer. I've got no link to back me up since that was read so long ago...



I do prefer condoms, but they just don't have the success rate that I could bank on (anymore).
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#16 Old 11-16-2005, 09:02 AM
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The whole IUD thing is kinda scary to think about. You gotta think about how healthy is it to have a "device" implanted in one's uterus for years at a time.
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#17 Old 11-16-2005, 01:29 PM
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Get the vasectomy, Rodolfo. You agree that it's unfortunate that the burden of birth control is in women's laps, and you won't get a little snip to help her out? I HATE it when men pull that! A vasectomy also is not nearly as invasive as... a baby in your uterus!
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#18 Old 11-16-2005, 01:37 PM
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A vasectomy also is not nearly as invasive as... a baby in your uterus!







OMG can I make that into a t-shirt
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#19 Old 11-16-2005, 01:39 PM
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OK, but I want one.
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#20 Old 11-16-2005, 02:22 PM
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that is the most awesome VB comment I have read in a long time!
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#21 Old 11-16-2005, 02:58 PM
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I know the sponges are available in Canada, but after a bit of looking, I've come up empty. Does anybody know off hand if they're available on drug store shelves, or is it over the counter?
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#22 Old 11-16-2005, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tesseract View Post

Get the vasectomy, Rodolfo. You agree that it's unfortunate that the burden of birth control is in women's laps, and you won't get a little snip to help her out? I HATE it when men pull that! A vasectomy also is not nearly as invasive as... a baby in your uterus!



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#23 Old 11-16-2005, 03:08 PM
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Get the vasectomy, Rodolfo. You agree that it's unfortunate that the burden of birth control is in women's laps, and you won't get a little snip to help her out? I HATE it when men pull that! A vasectomy also is not nearly as invasive as... a baby in your uterus!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Just one site on the Dangers of Vasectomy View Post

What Happens to a Mans Body After a Vasectomy?

By Kevin C. Hauber

4/26/01





How does vasectomy affect a mans body? This is a reasonable question, which unfortunately is rarely answered, even after significant effects occur.



Lets use an analogy of a 40-year-old fire hose. You hook this fire hose up to a hydrant and turn on the water. Let the hose represent the epididymis portion of the testicles and the vas deferens, which would measure some 20 feet in length if stretched out, and let the water represent the 50,000 sperm cells a minute that a mans body manufactures, even after vasectomy.



Now, tie a knot in the fire hose. What happens? Something is going to rupture, right? Thats why fire departments dont use 40-year-old fire hoses, and why men develop ruptures in their testicles after their vas is tied off during the vasectomy procedure.





Ruptures



Actually, the technical term for this phenomena is a blowout. According to Campbells Urology (a textbook for urology students and doctors) The brunt of pressure-induced damage after vasectomy falls on the epididymis and efferent ductules. It is likely that, in time, all vasectomized men develop blowouts in either the epididymis or efferent ducts. This rupturing can occur spontaneously at any time following vasectomy, and often when the epididymis is under pressure, such as when a man is ejaculating.



Autoimmune Responses



But thats not all. When the rupturing occurs, sperm cells enter the blood stream, where they were not naturally intended to be. As a matter of fact, nature makes a very specific point of keeping sperm cells out of the blood stream, because sperm cells have very strong enzymes on their surfaces and only half a DNA strand. What does the body think is happening? The immune system is sent on full alert to fight off a perceived infection of millions of invading cells per day, and the body becomes autoimmune, i.e. the body goes to war on itself. Again from Campbells Urology: Vasectomy results in violation of the blood-testis barrier producing detectable levels of serum antisperm antibodies in 60 to 80 per cent of men. Once this reaction starts, it is nearly impossible to stop, even with a vasectomy reversal. Research has shown that a sperm count taken prior to vasectomy is a good indicator of the likelihood of this autoimmune response; the higher the sperm count, the more likely a man will become autoimmune. Most doctors choose not to do this test prior to vasectomy, or to even inform their patients of the likelihood of this response. What cant be predicted, however, is the specific reactions a man might have to the formation of these antibodies. That is left purely to chance.



Why is this autoimmune response important? Well, numerous reactions have been identified as part of this autoimmune response. In three men out of five or more, chronic inflammation leads to the formation of a sperm granuloma at the rupture site, which may need to be removed surgically to alleviate painful symptoms. Other types of cysts often form in the epididymis and/or the scrotum including spermatoceles and hydroceles, which may also require further treatment or lead to other problems. The autoimmune response that follows vasectomy has also been linked to an increase in the incidence of numerous diseases by dozens of studies. These diseases include testicular dysfunction and hormonal imbalances, recurrent infections, various forms of cancer, and other immune system deficiencies. According to Dr. H. J. Roberts, an internist who has studied the effects of vasectomy on the immune system for over 30 years, no other operation performed on humans even approaches the degree and duration of the multiple immunologic responses that occur in the post-vasectomy state. The appearance of symptoms to these reactions may take years to manifest.



Pain and Injury



Problems during the procedure itself often cause damage to testicular blood and nerve supplies, and also commonly cause damage to delicate lymph vessels. Chronic testicular pain is an often undisclosed and potentially debilitating result of vasectomy. Urologists tend to play this aspect down, but if you read the literature, you will find a significant incidence of chronic pain resulting from the kinds of reactions discussed thus far. In surveys that asked patients about their post-vasectomy experience, up to a third of vasectomized men complained of chronic testicular pain of varying degrees, which is commonly termed Post-Vasectomy Pain Syndrome. When this pain is more severe, doctors will often recommend further surgery, up to and including complete removal of the testicle(s) and spermatic cord(s) to alleviate the pain. Sometimes further surgery works, and sometimes it doesnt.



How Can This Be True?



By now you have probably asked yourself, How can this guy be saying all this? After all, he doesnt have Dr. in front of his name. Actually, I have lived the nightmare of chronic pain and autoimmune reactions since my own vasectomy in August of 1999. Twelve surgeries and nerve blocks, and well over a hundred medications and therapies that I have pursued in the interim have not resolved the pain I experience on a daily basis. Other men have told of similar experiences for even longer durations. Many men are reluctant to discuss this issue due to its highly personal nature.





Do You Care To Be A Lab Rat?



Hundreds of medical research articles and several books by numerous doctors over the last three decades have examined the issues of vasectomy and the effects the procedure can have on the body. Unfortunately, much of that information has been well concealed from the public eye. Studies and cases have described findings of increased incidences of many disorders, including:



Life-long autoimmune (allergic) responses

Chronic testicular pain (Post-Vasectomy Pain Syndrome)

Decreased testicular function including changes in testosterone production

Chronic inflammation including the formation of sperm granulomas

Scrotal and epididymal cyst formation including Spermatocele and Hydrocele cysts

Congestive and infectious epididymitis

Prostatitis

Prostate cancer

Testicular atrophy (shrinking of the testicles)

Lung cancer

Non-Hodgkins lymphoma

Testicular cancer

Erectile dysfunction/impotence

Circulatory problems including phlebitis

Rheumatoid arthritis

Pulmonary embolism

Lupus

Atheosclerosis (hardening of the arteries leading to heart disease)

Autoimmune orchitis (degeneration of testicular tissues due to antibody action)

Staph infections including infections of the heart valves

Gangrene of the scrotum and other serious infections

Vasitis nodosa (chronic inflammation of the vas deferens)

Loss of libido

Multiple myeloma

Personality disturbances

Diabetes

Multiple sclerosis

Adrenal gland dysfunction

Migraine and other related headaches

Hypoglycemia

Narcolepsy

Generalized lymph node enlargement

Liver dysfunction



According to Dr. Talma Samuel and Dr. Noel Rose in the 1980 Journal of Clinical and Laboratory Immunology, Having been induced by the individuals own untreated [sperm] antigen the response [to vasectomy] justifies the most rigorous definition of autoimmunity. The widescale use of vasectomy, therefore, provides the clinical immunologist with a unique opportunity to study a longstanding, induced autoimmune response in otherwise normal human subjects.



On a related note, I have also decided not to circumsize my son (or my adule self), and we wouldn't operate on our child if it was born intergender.



I know that many people take some surgeries casually, as well as hormone treatments (the pill) casually, but I am not one of those people.



I rather be abstinent rather than have an surgery that I not convinced is nessesary.



I would like to explore other options.



Just as women shouldn't have to bear the burden of birth control, the only option for men shouldn't only be surgical.



At this point, barrier methods are still the most appealing, regardless of failure rates. I would still like to know if there are other options than the ones we've considered.
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#24 Old 11-16-2005, 03:17 PM
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That was from 1980? Anything more current?



What about all the dangers from childbirth?
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#25 Old 11-16-2005, 03:22 PM
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A less biased source:



Quote:
Advantages:

It is very effective and is a permanent method.

Nothing to remember except to use condoms or another effective method for the first 20 ejaculations or the first three months, whichever comes first.

It does not affect the ability to have sex.

No apparent long-term health risks.

Disadvantages:

Common minor short term complications of surgery:

---Usually uncomfortable for 2 to 3 days

---Usually uncomfortable for 2 to 3 days

--- Brief feeling of faintness after the procedure

Uncommon complication of surgery:

--- Bleeding or infection at the incision site or inside the incision

--- Blot clots in the scrotum



The problems with vasectomies seem to be the same as with any small surgeries.



Like I said, I rather not have surgeries unless absolutely nessesary. I don't think that this qualifies as "absolutely nessesary". I would still like to explore other options.
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#26 Old 11-16-2005, 03:25 PM
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Just curious -- would your wife like you to have a vasectomy? That is, if you were willing?
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#27 Old 11-16-2005, 03:25 PM
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What about all the dangers from childbirth?



Childbirth can be very dangerous. I cannot find statistics on it.



I think that comparing vasectomies to child birth is a bit of false dilema (ie logical fallacy).
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#28 Old 11-16-2005, 03:29 PM
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Just curious -- would your wife like you to have a vasectomy? That is, if you were willing?



We are now talking about what our plan will be after our second child is born in February.



We are considering all options... however I think that she's relatively comfortable with anything (including the pill, as well as having either one of our tubes tied), but I am less comfortable with what I do know about (the pill, elective surgeries). We are comfortable with condoms and spermicide (used together), but we've had bad luck with their success.
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#29 Old 11-16-2005, 03:32 PM
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Rodolfo, while I personally would not use Natural Family Planning as a sole method of birth control (unless I was OK with the possibility of having a baby), I think you might find it beneficial. That way, you and your wife would know when she is fertile and could avoid intercourse during that time and use a barrier method the rest of the time.



My husband and I took a class sponsored by the catholic church once. He was so pissy about the propaganda and the religious aspects of it that he did not hardly hear any of the good stuff. I got a lot out of it.
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#30 Old 11-16-2005, 03:34 PM
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I'm with you on this xrodolfo. No way would I have a vasectomy. There is a lot of problems & recent research indicates at least 1 in 8 men experience some sort of complication after surgery ranging from extended soreness to infertility*.

Hell, I wouldn't let a surgeon cut any little bit of me with a knife unless it was a matter of life & death. I bet everyone (well nearly) advocating vasectomy are female!

Good old coitus interuptus (practise that for timing!) & condoms don't require painful surgery.

Mind you, I have heard real men jog home after a vasectomy!



*edit - not infertility (ha ha) but inability to get an erection!
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