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vegggielove7 07-20-2015 02:00 AM

Two Foods Other Than Soy That Contain Estrogen??
 
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So, I was researching and came across a video speaking on sunflower seeds (one of my favorite) and estrogen. Of course, I began to research this subject.


An estrogen imbalance may lead to increased risks of breast cancer in women or "man boobs", increased cancer in men .


A few vegetables linked to estrogen properties: sunflower seeds and flax seed.


Research, research, and research everything !! :)

no whey jose 07-20-2015 05:51 AM

Many foods contain phytoestrogen. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that phytoestrogen has any negative effect on humans at all, and actually quite a lot of evidence to suggest that it may have a protective effect against certain cancers and other ailments. Can I ask where you're conducting your "research"? It's always best to stick to scholarly articles from peer-reviewed medical journals and steer clear of personal blogs and YouTube videos.

Kiwibird08 07-20-2015 06:38 AM

Interesting, though soy (IMO) is the only really concerning source of phytoestrogens. No one consumes sunflower seeds or flaxseeds in the same quantities/frequency as soy products. The reason soy (more specifically, highly processed soy) is such a hot topic is because (some) people eat the stuff morning noon and night every day for years and years. Soy milk and soy sausage/bacon for breakfast, a soy burger with soy cheese for lunch, soy chicken breasts and more soy milk for dinner, soy ice cream for desert.... you get the picture. No one eats flax and sunflower seeds 24/7.

LedBoots 07-20-2015 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vegggielove7 (Post 3722729)
So, I was researching and came across a video speaking on sunflower seeds (one of my favorite) and estrogen. Of course, I began to research this subject.


An estrogen imbalance may lead to increased risks of breast cancer in women or "man boobs", increased cancer in men .


A few vegetables linked to estrogen properties: sunflower seeds and flax seed.


Research, research, and research everything !! :)

Most of these "studies" stem from dairy and meat companies terrified of losing market share to soy products. Mercola is the biggest offender I know. Soy is healthy and won't give anyone man boobs or breast cancer. And neither will sunflower seeds.

silva 07-20-2015 05:02 PM

Appartently so will smelling lavender!
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm

I've yet to come across a study trashing soy that didn;t have links to meat/dairy industry--Mercola, weston price...
And it's not because some people eat the stuff 24/7. Omnivores consume far more processed soy ingrediants than they know

runnerveggie 07-20-2015 06:08 PM

I'm so glad to see the response to this. Keep being skeptical of claims that are presented without any supporting evidence!

Here is some pretty comprehensive reading about soy and its health effects, from vegan registered dietitian Jack Norris: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_wth

I don't see any reason to avoid the amounts of soy that people normally consume. I have yet to see any supporting evidence in this thread about the claim that supposed phytoestrogens in sunflower seeds or flax are harmful, either.

Naturebound 07-21-2015 02:33 AM

If you type in Google Scholar and then in that search engine type in "soy" or "phytoestrogen" you will get all kinds of real studies both positive and negative and everywhere in between on these compounds. Here are just a few I pulled up:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...0#.Va4Nt_lVhHw
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99508033330502

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...0#.Va4Og_lVhHw
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...31938414001401

Phytoestrogens like soy and flaxseed are actually antiestrogens in the way that they compete with some of the same cell receptors as human estrogens, hence their protective effect against some forms of breast and other cancers.

Phytoestrogens are in many foods, even some beer and wine, legumes, cruciferous vegetables, nuts/seeds, some grains, and soy. If you were to try to avoid phytoestrogens, it would leave you with quite a restrictive diet.

And as Silva said, highly processed soy is what is found in omnivore diets consisting of processed cold cereals, crackers, processed commercial bread, grain and soy fed farm animal meat (including farmed fish), traditional mayonnaise and salad dressings, boxed meals like Stove Top Stuffing etc.

Fermented and organic soy has been consumed for thousands of years in some countries and has not been an issue. Many vegans on this board (and elsewhere) have also thrived on beans, grains, nuts/seeds, vegetables and fruits for years and have not been adversely affected but live healthy lives.

I would rather consume organic soy in tempeh or tofu or miso any day...or flaxseeds or cabbage... than consume the antibiotics and hormones and suffering in dairy and meat .

@rno 07-21-2015 05:23 AM

Man are getting boobs by eating chicken.

no whey jose 07-21-2015 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @rno (Post 3723481)
Man are getting boobs by eating chicken.

Chicken brest. [emoji23]

melimomTARDIS 07-21-2015 08:41 AM

I think the soy fear stuff is silly.

I had a hormonal imbalance-type condition that affected my fertility, while I was a complete omnivore. The only soy I ate regularly was the kind that is mysteriously in bread/crackers/etc.

Now as a vegetarian, I have had complete resolution of those issues, and I eat a serving of soy once/twice a day. Sometimes three times.

I dont eat soy constantly, but who really is? some soymilk on my cereal, maybe a boca burger with lunch... seems like the way the stuff is typically consumed.

If we are so worried about hormones, why not worry about dairy? which typically can be served with all meals without anyone batting an eyelash?

melimomTARDIS 07-21-2015 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naturebound (Post 3723425)
If you type in Google Scholar and then in that search engine type in "soy" or "phytoestrogen" you will get all kinds of real studies both positive and negative and everywhere in between on these compounds. Here are just a few I pulled up:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...0#.Va4Nt_lVhHw
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99508033330502

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...0#.Va4Og_lVhHw
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...31938414001401

Phytoestrogens like soy and flaxseed are actually antiestrogens in the way that they compete with some of the same cell receptors as human estrogens, hence their protective effect against some forms of breast and other cancers.

Phytoestrogens are in many foods, even some beer and wine, legumes, cruciferous vegetables, nuts/seeds, some grains, and soy. If you were to try to avoid phytoestrogens, it would leave you with quite a restrictive diet.

And as Silva said, highly processed soy is what is found in omnivore diets consisting of processed cold cereals, crackers, processed commercial bread, grain and soy fed farm animal meat (including farmed fish), traditional mayonnaise and salad dressings, boxed meals like Stove Top Stuffing etc.

Fermented and organic soy has been consumed for thousands of years in some countries and has not been an issue. Many vegans on this board (and elsewhere) have also thrived on beans, grains, nuts/seeds, vegetables and fruits for years and have not been adversely affected but live healthy lives.

I would rather consume organic soy in tempeh or tofu or miso any day...or flaxseeds or cabbage... than consume the antibiotics and hormones and suffering in dairy and meat .

yes- this is what I was trying to say. when I was an omni this was the only form of soy i ate.

LeThieu92 07-21-2015 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwibird08 (Post 3722817)
Interesting, though soy (IMO) is the only really concerning source of phytoestrogens. No one consumes sunflower seeds or flaxseeds in the same quantities/frequency as soy products. The reason soy (more specifically, highly processed soy) is such a hot topic is because (some) people eat the stuff morning noon and night every day for years and years. Soy milk and soy sausage/bacon for breakfast, a soy burger with soy cheese for lunch, soy chicken breasts and more soy milk for dinner, soy ice cream for desert.... you get the picture. No one eats flax and sunflower seeds 24/7.

That is certainly the problem. It's all about moderation and a balanced diet. Anyone will get negative side effects from eating one food at every meal (especially in large quantities and when processed)



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Jasminedesi16 07-21-2015 11:25 AM

I might be wrong on this but I think many Asian countries eat tons of soy with no problems.

Tweety 07-22-2015 06:22 AM

I remember once reading about "the dangers of soy" in a men's magazine. They were using a male that was having issues such as increased breast size. They mentioned he was drinking six quarts a day of soy milk because he thought it was healthy. The article glossed over the fact that this was above and beyond what the average person that ate soy was eating. Veg*ns eating moderate amounts of soy have no issues that have been studied.

Similarly recently read an article about a raw food advocate that was eliminating cocoa because of the side effects. She mentioned that she ate a large serving three times a day.

Too much of a good thing, no matter what it is might have some harmful effects, but it doesn't mean we have to avoid them. It means we have to be reasonable. Vitamin A can be toxic, but you don't see many people getting on the bandwagon "the dangers of carrots".

We need to be reasonable in our eating and our reporting.

Kiwibird08 07-22-2015 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeThieu92 (Post 3723753)
That is certainly the problem. It's all about moderation and a balanced diet. Anyone will get negative side effects from eating one food at every meal (especially in large quantities and when processed)

Of course it's a moderation issue. A reasonable amount of soy (processed or not) isn't going to cause issues. However, because of the wide range of vegan "convenience" foods that are soy-based these days, it is VERY easy for vegetarians and vegans to eat it to excess. Probably the same kinds of people who ate meat and dairy to excess before going veg. They've just replaced the junk animal-based foods with junk soy-based foods and STILL don't eat any/many/enough fresh fruit, veg, nuts, seeds, whole grains ext... I've heard of plenty of veg/vegans who just LIVE on processed soy products (just as the example I originally gave, they're eating the stuff 3 meals a day and then some!). Because there are plenty of those types out there (and we live in a "warning label needed" society where common sense is no longer common) it is necessary to educate that overconsumption of soy products can lead to negative side effects. Other sources of phytoestrogens simply aren't consumed to the same level as soy, so soy gets singled out.

Auxin 07-22-2015 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasminedesi16 (Post 3723793)
I might be wrong on this but I think many Asian countries eat tons of soy with no problems.

How exactly does one define 'no problems'?
Traditionally they consumed relatively small quantities of mostly fermented soy products and some soy oil. Reports of historic high consumption are overstated based on misinterpretation of farming statistics. 100 Years ago asian countries grew lots of soy, true, but when reading an agronomists travelogue from that period I was surprised at how they used it. Contrary to modern net lore, soybean oil can be extracted by traditional means, this they did to obtain cooking and lamp oil, as well as a fuel to manufacture lampblack ink. One farmer was observed using pressed soybean paste to waterproof baskets for carrying water, but otherwise the pressed soybeans were used as a slow release high nitrogen fertilizer, not food.
Asian countries now eat loads of soy, a habit they got from the west.
Asian countries now have skyrocketing rates of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, bad eyesight, allergies, you name it.
I wouldnt suggest that the cause of that is soy, but I also wouldnt say they have no problems!

[Any homesteader types might want to read the above linked free book, its not veg*n but its shockingly close for a book from 1911 and only a slight modification makes those traditional foodways and agronomies vegan]

odizzido 07-22-2015 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweety (Post 3724553)
Too much of a good thing, no matter what it is might have some harmful effects, but it doesn't mean we have to avoid them. It means we have to be reasonable. Vitamin A can be toxic, but you don't see many people getting on the bandwagon "the dangers of carrots".

We need to be reasonable in our eating and our reporting.

AFAIK only vitamin A from animal sources is toxic. The vitamin A in plants is inactive or slightly different or whatever and our bodies only take what it needs and passes the rest. Animal source A is taken in by the body whether we want it or not. I learned this when I found out I was getting way too much vitamin A and I looked up toxicity.

no whey jose 07-22-2015 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odizzido (Post 3724817)
AFAIK only vitamin A from animal sources is toxic. The vitamin A in plants is inactive or slightly different or whatever and our bodies only take what it needs and passes the rest. Animal source A is taken in by the body whether we want it or not. I learned this when I found out I was getting way too much vitamin A and I looked up toxicity.

This is true. I was warned against consuming vitamin A in retinol form during my pregnancy, but vitamin A as beta carotene is fine. That was a huge relief after I discovered that my prenatal contains beta carotene!

Jasminedesi16 07-22-2015 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auxin (Post 3724681)
How exactly does one define 'no problems'?
Traditionally they consumed relatively small quantities of mostly fermented soy products and some soy oil. Reports of historic high consumption are overstated based on misinterpretation of farming statistics. 100 Years ago asian countries grew lots of soy, true, but when reading an agronomists travelogue from that period I was surprised at how they used it. Contrary to modern net lore, soybean oil can be extracted by traditional means, this they did to obtain cooking and lamp oil, as well as a fuel to manufacture lampblack ink. One farmer was observed using pressed soybean paste to waterproof baskets for carrying water, but otherwise the pressed soybeans were used as a slow release high nitrogen fertilizer, not food.
Asian countries now eat loads of soy, a habit they got from the west.
Asian countries now have skyrocketing rates of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, bad eyesight, allergies, you name it.
I wouldnt suggest that the cause of that is soy, but I also wouldnt say they have no problems!

[Any homesteader types might want to read the above linked free book, its not veg*n but its shockingly close for a book from 1911 and only a slight modification makes those traditional foodways and agronomies vegan]

I was not talking about soybean oil. I was talking about things like Tofu and Tempeh mostly. Tofu is used traditionally in Japanese cuisine and I think in Chinese cuisine. Tempeh was used in Indonesia (I'm not sure if it is now and was considered a cheap food since meat was too expensive. When I said they had no problems, I meant the men aren't walking around with man boobs or have girl voices which a lot of anti-vegan people says soy does. The Asian cuisine I am most familiar with is Japan and they have traditionally ate tons of soy products. A traditional breakfast in Japan used to be Miso soup, miso is made by fermented soybeans.Their traditional breakfast was usually steamed rice, miso, okayu, natto,and some kind of boiled fish. Natto is another traditional Japanese food which I see almost nowhere in the west is made from fermented soy. They also have been eating edamame since the middle ages before really any western influence in their food. They definitely ate soy. Also it could be that they are eating more processed food now than before and junk food, there are now tons of fast food places in Asia. KFC is hugely popular in Japan. I think the dangers of soy are often overstated, I don't eat tofu or tempeh everyday but I hate when people ask what it is or made of and they tell me I'm going to die of breast cancer because soy is so "dangerous". I even usually only drink almond milk because my mom tells me that soy milk is dangerous and will give you cancer because it is soy.

Naturebound 07-22-2015 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasminedesi16 (Post 3725113)
I was not talking about soybean oil. I was talking about things like Tofu and Tempeh mostly. Tofu is used traditionally in Japanese cuisine and I think in Chinese cuisine. Tempeh was used in Indonesia (I'm not sure if it is now and was considered a cheap food since meat was too expensive. When I said they had no problems, I meant the men aren't walking around with man boobs or have girl voices which a lot of anti-vegan people says soy does. The Asian cuisine I am most familiar with is Japan and they have traditionally ate tons of soy products. A traditional breakfast in Japan used to be Miso soup, miso is made by fermented soybeans.Their traditional breakfast was usually steamed rice, miso, okayu, natto,and some kind of boiled fish. Natto is another traditional Japanese food which I see almost nowhere in the west is made from fermented soy. They also have been eating edamame since the middle ages before really any western influence in their food. They definitely ate soy. Also it could be that they are eating more processed food now than before and junk food, there are now tons of fast food places in Asia. KFC is hugely popular in Japan. I think the dangers of soy are often overstated, I don't eat tofu or tempeh everyday but I hate when people ask what it is or made of and they tell me I'm going to die of breast cancer because soy is so "dangerous". I even usually only drink almond milk because my mom tells me that soy milk is dangerous and will give you cancer because it is soy.

I know what you mean! I eat tempeh or tofu a few times each week and it's like I have committed the worst food crime because...gasp...I am eating a soy product. :rolleyes:

Auxin 07-22-2015 07:03 PM

Yeah, people do get quite overly animated over soy.
People are also quite selective in what they choose to see. I see loads of guys with man boobs, I never assume its soy because I look at the rest of them as well and their belly also tends to look like one giant hairy 80 lb man boob.
Its junk food that causes man boobs, as far as I've seen.

Heck, if soy really turned men into women certain men would be doing just that to avoid the otherwise costly surgery and prescriptions.
I think 'man boobs' is just one of those cultural scare tactics used to manipulate people. Like when all the DARE people were telling little boys that marijuana causes man boobs, and little girls that it causes hair lips :laugh:

Jasminedesi16 07-23-2015 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naturebound (Post 3725145)
I know what you mean! I eat tempeh or tofu a few times each week and it's like I have committed the worst food crime because...gasp...I am eating a soy product. :rolleyes:

Yes one time I made a tofu teriyaki stir fry and brought it to work for lunch and when I said tofu was soy, people started telling how horrible of a food it was and how it will make you get cancer and make you get fat etc. :P


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