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#1 Old 06-27-2004, 07:31 AM
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my family and i are taking a vacation to florida in a few months. i need to bring some sort of bug repellent for myself as i will be outside for most of the time and im always the one in a crowd that will be eaten alive by mosquitos, sand fleas, and all those other wonderful beach bugs. id prefer to not be itching the whole time so ive been checking out different repellents.



i generally do not use bug repellent as i worry about how safe it is to be applying what is more or a less a "poison" to my skin?! please correct me if i am misinformed.



"Off" makes a plant based botanical repellent but i have read that it wont protect against west nile virus like deet will.



is deet really ok to use??? i will be on the beach so i wont have the option of applying it to clothing, it will have to go on my skin. i'll also be sweating quite a bit... would the lotion type be better than the spray type?



thanks for any info you can pass along!
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#2 Old 06-27-2004, 06:40 PM
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Form Delicious Living magazine June 2004



"James Rouse reccomends this natural insect repellant to keep bugs at bay: Mix together a few drops each of citronella, geranium, lemon and rosemary essential oils with a few tablespoons of unscented almond oil and apply to your skin. Reapply as needed. Sure beats the smell of DEET!" (Yes, it says that)



Essential oils are expensive but if you try it please let us know if it works. I don't know if it's supposed to work for all bugs or just mosquitos. I don't know what DEET is, sorry.



Also, I have heard that BOUNCE dryer sheets repel insects and to tie maybe 2 to a belt loop. It's also supposed to repel ants in your home. I have no idea if this works.



Tea tree oil is also supposed to be an insect repelant.

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#3 Old 06-27-2004, 07:32 PM
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oooh! i just saw this AD in the same magazine



Direct link:



Dschungel Lotion Insect Repellent



The Most effective Deet Free insect repellent Available.



http://store.nutribiotic.com/pgi-productspec?1077

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#4 Old 06-27-2004, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by allibaba View Post

my family and i are taking a vacation to florida in a few months. i need to bring some sort of bug repellent for myself as i will be outside for most of the time and im always the one in a crowd that will be eaten alive by mosquitos, sand fleas, and all those other wonderful beach bugs. id prefer to not be itching the whole time so ive been checking out different repellents.



i generally do not use bug repellent as i worry about how safe it is to be applying what is more or a less a "poison" to my skin?! please correct me if i am misinformed.



"Off" makes a plant based botanical repellent but i have read that it wont protect against west nile virus like deet will.



is deet really ok to use??? i will be on the beach so i wont have the option of applying it to clothing, it will have to go on my skin. i'll also be sweating quite a bit... would the lotion type be better than the spray type?



thanks for any info you can pass along!



I spent the last several months serving on the drafting committee of the Alliance for Informed Mosquito Management (AIMM), just in case you are interested.



I am glad you asked this question, unfortunately the answer is not so simple.



There are significant reasons to be concerned about DEET, and a reasonable person might choose not to use it.



My personal belief, however, is that DEET is relatively safe to use, if (1) used as appropriate for your age group or the age group of your family members, if (2) used in extreme moderation and if (3)you can avoid co-exposure (I'll explain more about these later).



There is another product, called Bite Blocker, that is made from soybean oil that is also effective against mosquitoes, but it must be reapplied more often than DEET. I think this stuff is far safer to use, but is something you are probably not going to find at the local store. But I can tell you were to order it. Since you have a couple of months before your vacation, ordering it should not be a problem.



If I were you, I would get both and bring both on vacation, trying to use the BiteBlocker as much as possible and the DEET as little as possible and/or as a back-up if you find the BiteBlocker is not working or not working as well as you'd like.



In terms of age groups (you mentioned your family coming along, but I don't know the ages of your family members) people fall into three groups in terms of DEET usage:

1) Newborns to two years old: Do not use DEET. Not at all.

2) Children two to ten years old: Only use DEET products with 10 percent DEET concentration or less.

3) Children over 10 or Adults: Use only DEET products with 25 percent DEET concentration or less. (DEET is available in concentrations above 25 percent; however, the sale of such concentrated DEET products is illegal in Canada and New York State, so most stores will only carry DEET products with less than or equal to a 25 percent concentration.)



In terms of moderation, from what I've read of scientific tests, a large percentage of the DEET you apply to your skin goes straight into your blood stream. A sensible person would use DEET products only as necessary and in the lowest concentrations that will do the job.



Finally, one of the most serious drawbacks of DEET is co-exposure, a subject that is rarely discussed outside of scientific journals, but should be. Co-exposure is basically the equivalent of drug-interactions in medicine. A drug might be safe if taken by itself, but very dangerous if taken in combination with other drugs or alcohol. In a similar manner, DEET can be very unsafe if you are also exposed to certain other chemicals. Unfortunately, one of these is antihistamines. If you have hay fever and are taking antihistamines, exposure to DEET can be very dangerous. Another chemical that makes DEET unsafe is pyrethroids (pyrethrin, Anvil, Sumethrin), which are commonly used in insecticides sprayed against mosquitoes.



I'll get you more detailed information as time permits.



Here is one source for Bite Blocker:



http://www.biconet.com/personal/biteblocker.html



I happen to know the owner of this business, who lives about 2 miles from me.

But I have no connection with his business, and do not get a "cut" or commission or anything like that. If you can find this product elsewhere at a better price, then you should get the best deal you can get.



I think the claimed time intervals of protection are stretching it a bit. I'll post more information about test results and time factors as time permits.



Sorry to say, but citronella oils, other essential oils, fabric softener sheets, etc., just do not work effectively against mosquitoes, according to scientific tests
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#5 Old 06-28-2004, 02:54 AM
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Joe-can you please tell us what yu think of the Dschungel Lotion Insect Repellent.



It is mainly essential oils so do you think it would not be effective?



INGREDIENTS

Citronella Oil 1%, Inert Ingredients 99%, Essential Oils including clove, geranium, eucalyptus, orange, palma rosa, rosemary, and sage.



This is very informative as I had never heard of DEET before. Wondering what pyrethrin is and if its a variation of premathryn (sic). I'm trying to spell the ingredient used in RAID and scabies and lice medications.

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#6 Old 06-28-2004, 06:19 AM
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You could try Natrapel. It's a DEET free alternative to commercial bug sprays. It is available in most drug stores.
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#7 Old 06-28-2004, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarro View Post

Joe-can you please tell us what yu think of the Dschungel Lotion Insect Repellent.



It is mainly essential oils so do you think it would not be effective?



INGREDIENTS

Citronella Oil 1%, Inert Ingredients 99%, Essential Oils including clove, geranium, eucalyptus, orange, palma rosa, rosemary, and sage.



I'm not familiar with this specific product. These essential oils might be effective in keeping away many kinds of insects, like houseflies or moths, but I do not think they'd be effective against mosquitoes.



Quote:
This is very informative as I had never heard of DEET before. Wondering what pyrethrin is and if its a variation of premathryn (sic). I'm trying to spell the ingredient used in RAID and scabies and lice medications.





If you mean permethrin, then, yes, that is another type of synthetic pyrethroid.



See generally:



http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pest...eets/index.htm



http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pest...heets/deet.pdf



http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pest...yrethroids.pdf



http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pest...permethrin.pdf



.PDF files can be read using the Adobe Acrobat Reader (free).
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#8 Old 06-28-2004, 10:00 AM
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I just saw a commercial the other day for OFF bug spray, saying that Deet is the only way Are we going backwards in evolution or what



Btw, here is an interesting article concerning Deet. http://www.quantumhealth.com/news/articledeet.html
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#9 Old 06-28-2004, 10:01 AM
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I purchased Quantum Buzz Away at Whole Foods two years in a row and am quite happy with the results.

I had to spend a few hours outside in my garage recently while having a garage sale and I was getting bit up by mosquitos and as soon as I put the Buzz Away on, it stopped.

The indications on the bottle say to reapply every 2-3 hours or possibly hourly for certain bugs.

www.quantumhealth.com
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#10 Old 06-28-2004, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DancNSpin View Post

I just saw a commercial the other day for OFF bug spray, saying that Deet is the only way Are we going backwards in evolution or what



Btw, here is an interesting article concerning Deet. http://www.quantumhealth.com/news/articledeet.html



I would be skeptical of those OFF commercials.



Very good article, but I am skeptical of some of the claims made.

Most of the negatives cited about DEET, though, are probably true.



DON'T use a 25 percent concentration of DEET on a child under 10.

This is not a joke. I feel sorry for the mother who injured her child in this way, and feel even more sorry for the child. But the mother was acting

in a very ignorant and (unknowingly) irresponsible way. DEET products should contain much more explicit warnings, especially concerning their use on children.

Citronella oil (which is the main active ingredient in Quantum's Buzz Away) has not done that well against mosquitoes in independent scientific tests.
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#11 Old 06-28-2004, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SallyK View Post

I purchased Quantum Buzz Away at Whole Foods two years in a row and am quite happy with the results.

I had to spend a few hours outside in my garage recently while having a garage sale and I was getting bit up by mosquitos and as soon as I put the Buzz Away on, it stopped.

The indications on the bottle say to reapply every 2-3 hours or possibly hourly for certain bugs.

www.quantumhealth.com



I have a spray bottle of Buzz Away sitting right by me as I type.



I believe you when you say that as soon as you put it on, the mosquitoes stopped biting. But lots of things will give you relief for 20 or 30 minutes. To be considered effective, the repellant needs to repel mosquitoes in laboratory tests for at least an hour or more. As far as I know, only DEET or BiteBlocker-type products have been proven to do this.



I'll be buying some Bite Blocker for myself very soon.
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#12 Old 06-28-2004, 10:36 AM
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What exactly do these laboratory tests entail, Joe, and are they comparable to a real-life mosquito encounter?
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#13 Old 06-29-2004, 03:57 AM
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What exactly do these laboratory tests entail, Joe, and are they comparable to a real-life mosquito encounter?



Those are two very good questions. In order to answer them fully, I need to have my computer working properly, but unfortunately, it has been giving me problems lately.



The laboratory tests are so-called "arm-in-cage" tests described fully in articles like the following from the New England Journal of Medicine:



http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13



Comparative Efficacy of Insect Repellents against Mosquito Bites



Mark S. Fradin, M.D., and John F. Day, Ph.D.



Quote:
Results DEET-based products provided complete protection for the longest duration. Higher concentrations of DEET provided longer-lasting protection. A formulation containing 23.8 percent DEET had a mean complete-protection time of 301.5 minutes. A soybean-oilbased repellent protected against mosquito bites for an average of 94.6 minutes. The IR3535-based repellent protected for an average of 22.9 minutes. All other botanical repellents we tested provided protection for a mean duration of less than 20 minutes. Repellent-impregnated wristbands offered no protection.



Are they comparable to real-life mosquito encounter?



I really don't know. There seems to be some discrepancy between the results found in lab tests vs. the results found in field tests. Why? I don't know.
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#14 Old 06-29-2004, 09:48 AM
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The Urban Legends Reference Page did an article on mosquito repellants:



http://www.snopes.com/spoons/oldwives/skeeters.htm



It cites a response from one of the experts associated with a product that did not do well in the lab test, who says it does well in field tests and lab tests are unreliable (note: the link in the Snopes article no longer works, use the link below):



http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir...item_id=311987





Quote:
Unlike the lab tests reported in The New England Journal of Medicine article, the EPA requires that field tests -- tests in the actual environment where mosquitoes live -- be performed before a product can be labeled effective. In fact, the EPA will not register an insect repellent product based solely on lab tests.



According to Dr. Robert Novak, Professor of Medical Entomology at the University of Illinois and recent President of the American Mosquito Control Association, "It is well known among entomologists that laboratory tests are not appropriate to establish the efficacy of mosquito repellents, because they use an artificial indoor environment. The true test for repellents are outdoor field studies, which are conducted in the habitat of mosquitoes. Consumers should only rely on field test data when they are considering the efficacy of mosquito repellents, and Dr. Day's study was not a field test." Dr. Novak served with Dr. Day on the Scientific Advisory Panel of the EPA.

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#15 Old 06-30-2004, 01:32 AM
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I've looked into insect repellents, and for adults, DEET-based repellents seem to be the best.



The benefits outweigh the very small risk.



Of course, you are free to google and look at both the pro- and anti-deet sites yourself.
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#16 Old 06-30-2004, 01:24 PM
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I spent the last several months serving on the drafting committee of the Alliance for Informed Mosquito Management (AIMM), just in case you are interested.





Wow Joe thanks, I didn't know that. Is skintastick safe for teens and adults? I like it because it doesn't smell horrific and it isn't oily like other repellants.
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#17 Old 06-30-2004, 02:14 PM
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I've looked into insect repellents, and for adults, DEET-based repellents seem to be the best.



The benefits outweigh the very small risk.



Of course, you are free to google and look at both the pro- and anti-deet sites yourself.





I was one of the people in TX who got West Nile. I almost died. I have to say, deet is the only way for me.
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#18 Old 06-30-2004, 06:02 PM
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I have been using this since last summer and it has worked well for me. I made up and use the blend for mosquitos and the one for blackflies as they drive me crazy on trail rides. they work well on the horse as well!



Fortunately, there are particular essential oils that are particularly good for different types of bugs. Here is a very simple formula for making your own repellent oil, plus the very best essential choices for stinging bugs!

Insect Repellent

Here is an easy repellent to make that has a shelf life of around six months. Label jars mosquito, tick, etc. for quick identification.



1o to 25 drops essential oil

2 tablespoons vegetable oil (olive oil is fine)

1 tablespoon aloe vera gel (optional)



Combine the ingredients in a glass jar. Shake to blend. Dab a few drops on your skin.

Choose From the following Bug Repellent Essential Oils, according to need.



(Caution: Pregnant women should consult with their doctors before using.)



Ticks First Choice: Rose Geranium

Other: Palmerosa, bay, eucalyptus, European pennyroyal

lavender, tickweed (American pennyroyal)



Mosquitoes: Pennyroyal, lemon balm (citronella), thyme, lavender



Blackflies: Sassafras, lavender, eucalyptus, pennyroyal, cedar, lemon balm (citronella), peppermint



Head Lice: Tea tree, rosemary, lavender, eucalyptus, rose geranium



Fleas: Orange oil



A note about wasps and yellow jackets: Dont wear perfume, hair spray, or scented deodorant. Avoid wearing bright colored clothing.
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#19 Old 07-01-2004, 08:00 PM
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thanks for all of the great replies!



i think i may have found something that would be perfect for me at the beach. it is "SKIN-SO-SOFT Bug Guard PLUS IR3535® Insect Repellent Moisturizing Sunblock Lotion SPF 30" made by avon. here is a blurb about it from avon.com



"Take cover. Sunblock and insect repellant combo moisturizes and protects skin from harmful rays, as well as shoos insects such as mosquitoes and ticks that may transmit West Nile Virus and Lyme Disease. Available in regular lotion or disappearing blue color that makes it fun for kids, and ensures you won't miss any spots. With a fun fruity scent kids will love! Pediatrician and dermatologist-tested. DEET-Free. PABA-Free. Very water-resistant, sweat-resistant. SPF 30 UVA/UVB protection. 4 fl. oz."



currently being sold for $4.99 each on avon.com. i checked out some of the reviews on epinions.com and found that the majority (7 of the 8 reviews) were very much in favor of the product. ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:

ETHYL BUTYLACETYLAMINOPROPIONATE/BUTYLACETYLAMINOPROPIONIC ACID



ACTIVE SUNSCREEN INGREDIENTS: OCTYL METHOXYCINNAMATE

OXYBENZONE

OCTYL SALICYLATE



OTHER INGREDIENTS:

WATER

BUTYLENE GLYCOL

GLYCERIN

PVP/EICOSENE COPOLYMER

ALOE BARBADENSIS GEL

ISOSTEARIC ACID

PROPYLENE GLYCOL MYRISTYL ETHER ACETATE

STEARIC ACID

BENZYL ALCOHOL

CETYL ALCOHOL

DEA-OLETH-3 PHOSPHATE

DIGLYCOL-CYCLOHEXANEDIMETHANOL-ISOPHTHALATES-SULFOISOPHTHALATES

COPOLYMER

DIMETHICONE

GLYCERYL STEARATE

MAGNESIUM ALUMINUM SILICATE

TOCOPHERYL ACETATE

BARIUM SULFATE

FRAGRANCE

IMIDAZOLIDINYL UREA

XANTHAN GUM

DISODIUM EDTA

FD&C BLUE NO.1

D&C RED NO.33

DIMETHICONE

GLYCERYL STEARATE

MAGNESIUM ALUMINUM SILICATE

TOCOPHERYL ACETATE

BARIUM SULFATE

FRAGRANCE

IMIDAZOLIDINYL UREA

XANTHAN GUM

DISODIUM EDTA

(no deet!)



anyone have any experience with this product? thanks!
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#20 Old 07-02-2004, 06:55 AM
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Catnip essential oil. Sounds crazy, but it's been proven to be more effective in repelling mosquitos than DEET in the same quantities.



Check out this study:

http://www.ag.iastate.edu/aginfo/new...es/catnip.html



I make my own bug buster spray with catnip eo and a blend of other bug repelling eos and my husband and I do not get bit. I'm planning on selling it at some point but don't have it up on my site yet because I don't have the containers for it yet.
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#21 Old 07-02-2004, 08:15 AM
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I think all depending on what products work for you really has a lot to do with your chemical makeup. For instance some people are most susectible to bites than others as well as anything else-what works for one may not exactly work for another. So trial and error is my advice. Although I am all for finding all natural ways of keep bugs off- I find that for me and my family the avon skin so soft with sunscreen is the best. Plus the gentle breeze scent is amazing.
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#22 Old 07-02-2004, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by xmarkerax View Post

Wow Joe thanks, I didn't know that. Is skintastick safe for teens and adults? I like it because it doesn't smell horrific and it isn't oily like other repellants.



Here's our platform document/mission statement, if you are interested in reading it:



http://www.beyondpesticides.org/MOSQ...20Platform.htm



Our work did not focus on mosquito repellants per se.



But I just spoke with one of the staff at Beyond Pesticides yesterday.

She uses Skin So Soft (she says you just have to keep re-applying it) and tells me that Dr. Robert Novak is highly respected in his field.
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#23 Old 07-02-2004, 08:59 AM
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I was one of the people in TX who got West Nile. I almost died. I have to say, deet is the only way for me.



I hope this does not sound insensitive, but I'd be very interested in hearing about your experiences in detail.
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#24 Old 07-02-2004, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by allibaba View Post

thanks for all of the great replies!



i think i may have found something that would be perfect for me at the beach. it is "SKIN-SO-SOFT Bug Guard PLUS IR3535® Insect Repellent Moisturizing Sunblock Lotion SPF 30" made by avon. here is a blurb about it from avon.com



...



currently being sold for $4.99 each on avon.com. i checked out some of the reviews on epinions.com and found that the majority (7 of the 8 reviews) were very much in favor of the product. ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:

ETHYL BUTYLACETYLAMINOPROPIONATE/BUTYLACETYLAMINOPROPIONIC ACID

...

(no deet!)



anyone have any experience with this product? thanks!



No, not personally. But this is one version of the IR3535-based repellant that

was found to provide only 22.9 minutes of protection in the New England Journal of Medicine Lab study, and is the one about which Avon and Dr. Robert Novak shot back about the field tests being more valuable than the lab tests. So the value of this product seems to be debatable. (See my posts # 13 and 14 above.)



I didn't know that this was readily available for purchase over the internet. (I thought you had to contact an "Avon Lady" to buy such products.)



One of my main concerns about the sun screen product is that I'm told that to be sure the mosquito repellant aspect is working, you need to keep reapplying it like every hour. And I don't know that people would likely do that with a sun screen product.
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#25 Old 07-02-2004, 09:57 AM
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I hope this does not sound insensitive, but I'd be very interested in hearing about your experiences in detail.



OK, and no you don't sound insensitive.



My neighbors and I used to sit on my porch with beer and shoot the breeze. This was two years ago. For some reason mosquitos love me! I didn't always use repellent. One of my friends saw how badly I was being bitten, and sprayed me with some "Off".



One day, I was at work and started feeling really sick. I had a bad headache, and I was really cold. It was hot in my office, and I was freezing. I knew I had a fever, and just assumed I had a flu or something. I left work early and went home and took some tylenol and laid down.



I stayed home from work the next day. My bf came home from work at lunch to check on me, and he couldn't wake me up. When I finally did wake up, he noticed I had a rash on the trunk of my body, and I was burning up, and I was really weak and lethargic. He called my Mom, and they took me to the hospital. I don't remember this, but they said I started having convulsions in the car on the way over there.



I was in the hospital for two weeks. I really don't remember alot of what happened when I was first admitted. My fever had gotten to 105. I had alot of IV's, and blood work. I was out of work for four weeks.



I have a 14 year old daugther who had an absent dad. I can't bear the thought of dying on her. She was terrified.



I make sure if I go out at all at night during the summer, that I have repellent on, and long pants and long sleeves. Contracting West Nile is pretty rare, and I hardley ever get sick, so I was shocked that I got it all. I've never been that sick in my entire life. I hope I never get that sick again!



I hope I answered your questions.
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