Do you believe there are some people who HAVE to eat meat? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-10-2009, 02:02 AM
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I've met a few people who claim they have to eat meat. They've 'tried' vegetarianism but got sick.



I've heard others say that some people need it, some people don't.



I personally believe that no-one needs meat, and that it's just an excuse.



What are your thoughts?
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#2 Old 12-10-2009, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camden View Post

They've 'tried' vegetarianism but got sick.



Either it's in their heads or they did it wrong. Scientific and medical studies don't support the claim that a properly balanced vegetarian diet is deficient.
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#3 Old 12-10-2009, 02:23 AM
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People? No.



Other animals? Yes.



Your friends are clearly cats in disguise.
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#4 Old 12-10-2009, 06:13 AM
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i think meat consumption was relevant and/or necessary at some point in the evolution of our species, but no longer is. the cons have far outweighed the pros.
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#5 Old 12-10-2009, 06:18 AM
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No
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#6 Old 12-10-2009, 06:36 AM
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#7 Old 12-10-2009, 08:46 AM
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No. If someone is making this argument, they better be a Bengal tiger or a Great White shark.

slops, gloops, and gruels.
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#8 Old 12-10-2009, 08:47 AM
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I have a friend who claims this. It's whatever - could probably happen, but I doubt it's as common as people would like to believe.
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#9 Old 12-10-2009, 08:52 AM
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The statement 'I have to eat meat.'



Translates into any one of, or combination of, the following:



-I'm too lazy to change my eating habits

-I feel 'fuller' with protein, and don't know any other options

-I want to fit in, and not eating meat may alienate me from (friend/spouse/coworkers)

-I don't want to know about the suffering that occurs for my food.



Quote:
They've 'tried' vegetarianism but got sick.



Translates into: I didn't do any research at all, and ate a bunch of celery and tofu, and wonder why I feel sick.



I should do an 'Omnivore to English' dictionary.
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#10 Old 12-10-2009, 08:53 AM
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I think some people feel weak on a vegetarian diet if they went straight to it after eating meat 2-3 times a day. It makes sense...any extreme loss in calories/fat/protein might make you feel sick or weak. I see people here recommend eating more when you make the switch until your body adjusts. So if they didn't eat enough, didn't give their body a chance to adjust, didn't eat enough protein, ect I think you are going to find a lot of people who "need" meat. But if someone is properly educated, plans a healthy diet....I'm not saying it CAN'T happen, but I think it would be extremely rare. But lots of people who try to make the switch like that don't know about healthy, nutritious veggie foods and don't get enough fat and calories in their diet. My bf was living off of fruit for like 2 weeks. He kept saying he was tired. I'm like "No, REALLY!?" Duh. LOL Anyway, if he eats 2 pieces of fruit, yes he feels weak. If I make him a nice, rounded veggie meal, he's fine.
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#11 Old 12-10-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
My bf was living off of fruit for like 2 weeks. He kept saying he was tired. I'm like "No, REALLY!?" Duh. LOL Anyway, if he eats 2 pieces of fruit, yes he feels weak. If I make him a nice, rounded veggie meal, he's fine.



What happened here was a 'sugar crash.' Essentially fruit has fast acting sugars that bring your blood sugars high, but with no protein to stabilize it, they plunge low making the eater suddenly tired and even hungrier. I made that mistake when I first went veg as I love fruit. I eventually had to combine my fruit with cereal or something else 'stable' and reduce my consumption a bit.
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#12 Old 12-10-2009, 11:08 AM
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Oh I know. It's not healthy at all. He has some eating issues unresolved from his childhood and sometimes does some very unhealthy things as a result. And it's so hard to convince him it's not healthy because "It's fruit and fruit is healthy!"
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#13 Old 12-10-2009, 11:18 AM
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Oh I know. It's not healthy at all. He has some eating issues unresolved from his childhood and sometimes does some very unhealthy things as a result. And it's so hard to convince him it's not healthy because "It's fruit and fruit is healthy!"



Awww sorry to hear it (the eating issues).



Being a former fruit-a-holic I can relate. Perhaps encouraging him to incorporate his love of fruit into everyday foods may help. (Examples: apples in pancakes, fruit in yogurt or soygurt, fruit with cereal, blended fruit and vegetable drinks with a protein powder etc). Just a thought. But it's better fruit than candies.
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#14 Old 12-10-2009, 11:45 AM
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Nope. No human needs flesh to survive.

korrakorrakorrakorrakorra
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#15 Old 12-10-2009, 12:25 PM
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i have to say yes, but only because saying otherwise is a gross generalization, and there could be anyone anywhere within some body that needs meat.



that being said, i do not think that most people need meat. i think that most americans--living a sedentary american lifestyle--would be much, much, much healthier on vegan or vegetarian diets. in fact, i think that they would be healthier being vegan overall.



but, i do think that active people might be different, and certain bodies might be different.



if i didn't truly believe that my body needed outside cholesterol in order to be happy, i'd be vegan again. i eat vegan about 3-4 days a week (so does baby), and then vegetarian the other days (eggs, cheese, yogurt). i don't eat junk food.



similarly, my husband considers himself a "hard gainer" body builder, and as such, believes that he needs meat. if he didn't believe that, he likely would be vegetarian just because of my pressures. LOL but, he truly does not believe that he would be successful at gaining or maintaining muscle as a vegetarian or vegan. part of it is that he doesn't want to use meat analogues or protein powders (the cornerstone of vegan body builder diets), and the other part of it is that he sees vegan body builders as being "genetically gifted" or "a different body type" than his--one that can handle just about any diet and still build muscle.



personally, i think he would be fine on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but he thinks that he would atrophy to a skinny bone (and he is naturally ectomorphic) even with heavy lifting as he does now. and even if he didn't, he feels he would be more prone to injury or whatever.



and honestly, he sees omnivorism as the "optimal diet" because it is "the most diverse" while vegetarianism and veganism are removing perfectly good nutritional sources. the ethical concerns that vegans and vegetarians have do not concern him, as he believes it is not wrong to kill animals for food or to raise them for food, so long as it is done within specific ideologies and practices (animal welfare argument).



i think it is unfair to say that anyone who is not vegetarian or vegan is unthoughtful, or just lazy or what have you. my husband is very diligent about diet and nearly all of his life choices, and so when he does decide something, it is well thought. . .even if i disagree with various premises and so on.



and again, i truly think he would be fine on a vegan or vegetarian diet, but what i think doesn't really matter. and, he has gone on short 'stints' of vegetarianism such as when we do a retreat or when we travel and i'm in charge of food. he's not adverse to being vegetarian for a number of days or even weeks, so long as he's not working out during that time (eg, vacation), but he feels that when he is lifting, he needs meat at least once a day to get the most nutrients and recover.



i love him, but he's a weirdo.
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#16 Old 12-10-2009, 12:33 PM
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I think it's in their head and you'd be surprised what you can convince your mind of and the effects of said convincing statements on one's physical body.





But no, I don't think so.
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#17 Old 12-10-2009, 12:34 PM
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Zoe, my boyfriend is a hard gainer/body builder, too, but he would never suggest he needs meat. It's just convenient for him. He'll eat vegetarian whenever that food is available.
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#18 Old 12-10-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicia Avocado View Post

What happened here was a 'sugar crash.' Essentially fruit has fast acting sugars that bring your blood sugars high, but with no protein to stabilize it, they plunge low making the eater suddenly tired and even hungrier. I made that mistake when I first went veg as I love fruit. I eventually had to combine my fruit with cereal or something else 'stable' and reduce my consumption a bit.



Fruit does have protein. I never crash on a high fruit diet.



Of course who would eat only two pieces of fruit?! haha
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#19 Old 12-10-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicia Avocado View Post

I should do an 'Omnivore to English' dictionary.



Yes, and the statement that fruit causes a crash converts to:



"I didn't eat enough calories in fruit and instead of blaming myself, I'm blaming an innocent little apple!"
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#20 Old 12-10-2009, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

Fruit does have protein. I never crash on a high fruit diet.



Of course who would eat only two pieces of fruit?! haha



A lot of people may not be diabetic, but are sensitive to sugars. If you have fruit in moderation it is fine, but as you can see by this list, having large amounts will up your glycemic index as they are moderate-high in the chart.



As far as the protein bit goes, it is dependant on the fruit. Bananas are high protein, but other fruits may be low.



The moral of the story: Everything in moderation, and eating a variety is key.
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#21 Old 12-10-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicia Avocado View Post

A lot of people may not be diabetic, but are sensitive to sugars. If you have fruit in moderation it is fine, but as you can see by this list, having large amounts will up your glycemic index as they are moderate-high in the chart.



As far as the protein bit goes, it is dependant on the fruit. Bananas are high protein, but other fruits may be low.



The moral of the story: Everything in moderation, and eating a variety is key.



That's probably why greens are always suggested for their minerals, good fats, extra protein, iron, sodium, etc.



Now we're in the wrong thread to speak of moderation. Meat in moderation, anyone?
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#22 Old 12-10-2009, 12:51 PM
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i agree with alicia. i tend to be sugar sensitive overall (eg, when i was a kid, i didn't like sweets, wouldn't eat maple syrup or a lot of "normal" foods that people like), but i do also like fruit.



i can go a whole day just eating fruit (sometimes my body asks for it), but what my body generally asks for on those days are the higher-fiber fruits so that the absorption tends to be slower and doesn't spike the insulin.



otherwise, when i have higher glycemic foods (whether fruit or veg), i tend to have to balance them with good fats, proteins, or more fiber in order to not get a head ache.



and even still, i tend to avoid sweets.
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#23 Old 12-10-2009, 12:54 PM
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People with candida do great on a high-fruit, low-fat diet (assuming they actually follow it and aren't lying about what they eat).
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#24 Old 12-10-2009, 12:55 PM
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i think that moderation is difficult to define. i mean, some people need a 2500+ calorie daily intake, and that can be hard to achieve in a vegetarian diet (i think it can be achieved with a high fat intake, but otherwise, vegetarian meals tend to have a *lot* of volumn and lower calories per that volumn--eg, a vegan salad without dressing).



so, i think that many omnivores who are into diet in general (eg, they know about and watch their diet, count calories, etc like my DH), tend to feel that moderation is whatever they define it to be. i know some people who think that 2-3 times a week is "moderate" and others who feel that once or twice a day is moderate, etc.



anyway, i think that one can be moderate with meat--because of it's subjective definition--but that it isn't always necessary. i think that if one does need a high amount of calories, one can get the nutrients one needs easily from a vegetarian or vegan diet--everything in moderation--but to get the caloric needs met, might have to actually have a high-fat diet (all things considered) in order to have a lower volumn of food and not feel over-stuffed.



it gets confusing, balancing all of these elements!
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#25 Old 12-10-2009, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

i think that moderation is difficult to define. i mean, some people need a 2500+ calorie daily intake, and that can be hard to achieve in a vegetarian diet it gets confusing, balancing all of these elements!



I eat low-fat, high-fruit, about 2,500-3,500 calories per day. Of course I'm an athlete.



My boyfriend, like your husband, is a hard gainer/body builder. He is an omnivore at this time but hasn't ruled out going vegetarian and uses vegan protein powders and vegan cheeses and eats what he considers high-protein meals that are vegan with tofu and seitan. I always remind him that the higher protein you eat, the more fat you eat. He likes his six-pack as well.
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#26 Old 12-10-2009, 01:32 PM
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I tend to be "funny" about sugar levels, too. If I have a whack load of fruit for breakfast, and lunch is late, I start to get white and shaky (according to other people - "Hey Kiz, you need to eat, you are looking funny"). If I'd gone straight from meaty, fatty, protein breakfasts to fruit breakfasts I'm sure I'd have been convinced vegetarianism was not for me, either. Well, maybe not, because I'm stubborn and would have tried other options, but I can kind of see the thought process.

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#27 Old 12-10-2009, 02:06 PM
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we don't do 'fake' foods. when i was vegan, i avoided vegan cheeses and meat analogues. i still do now, but am vegetarian. and i know dh wouldn't use protein powder. it's a value of ours to eat real foods.



one does need a lot of protein for muscles to grow, and that can come from a variety of sources, but for vegans, those sources include analogues and powders. as a vegetarian, one can utilize dairy and eggs--but these are even higher in fat per volumn (unless you're buying low fat, etc, and we do not consider these "real" cheese either, we buy traditional, whole foods, raw dairy, etc) and therefore do not have the benefits of meat or powders/analogues.



now, again, i believe that my husband would be fine vegetarian or vegan--that he could get enough protein on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but that it would have to be a higher in fat diet than usual (maybe even 30% fat).



i also believe that with a higher fat diet, you can still be lean--as his diet is relatively high in fat now and he is lean, and some of his friends (who only eat meat 1-3 times per week after workouts) tend to have as much as 25-35% diet of fats. and, it would mean consuming food less frequently (than 5-6 small meals) and have less volumn per meal to be more physically comfortable.



i'm just saying, since i'm trying to design a mostly vegetarian (meat 2 x per week) diet for him for when we move to NZ, and of course, that might also be predominately vegan.



also, i'm not accounting for the cod liver oil, which would make him automatically omni even if he didn't eat any other meat. he doesn't process beta carotene efficiently, and therefore needs a source of pure vitamin A. he needs a therapeutic dose.
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#28 Old 12-10-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

and lunch is late....



My lunch was late today and I had already exercised 1.5 hours plus walked around for work for about 1 hour and my skin was glowing. Go figure!
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#29 Old 12-10-2009, 02:10 PM
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but for vegans, those sources include analogues and powders.



Not necessarily!



We got all sidetracked from the thread, though.
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#30 Old 12-10-2009, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Alicia Avocado View Post

Awww sorry to hear it (the eating issues).



Being a former fruit-a-holic I can relate. Perhaps encouraging him to incorporate his love of fruit into everyday foods may help. (Examples: apples in pancakes, fruit in yogurt or soygurt, fruit with cereal, blended fruit and vegetable drinks with a protein powder etc). Just a thought. But it's better fruit than candies.



He doesn''t really even like fruit that much. It just has to do with his very skewed perspective of what's "healthy". Poor guy is trying to unlearn what he was taught for 20 years. He grew up obese in a very unhealthy house and resorted to starving himself to lose weight. Now he's struggling to find his balance I think.
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