Veganism is bad for the environment? - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 19Likes
  • 1 Post By Coto16
  • 5 Post By Poppy
  • 1 Post By EarthGodess
  • 2 Post By EarthGodess
  • 1 Post By StuartGrows
  • 2 Post By Vegan Mike
  • 1 Post By 121938
  • 1 Post By 121938
  • 2 Post By silva
  • 1 Post By David3
  • 2 Post By WillCorw
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 08-29-2016, 12:57 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7
Exclamation Veganism is bad for the environment?

So someone on a forum told me this about veganism and the environment:

Him: "Animals take Oxygen and breathe out Carbon Dioxide which Humans can't use.
Plants take Carbon Dioxide and breathe out Oxygen which Humans can use.

By eating plants you are killing off our supply of Oxygen and causing an increased level of Carbon Dioxide production.

Vegans are destroying our planet"

Me: "Vegetarians use less resources like water, food, oil, contribute less CO2 to the atmosphere, and animals are not killed for their consumption.

Raising livestock contribute more to global warming than automobiles, and is the second leading cause of global warming behind industrial pollution.

Being a vegan for 1 year;
How many animals a vegan saves: 200~
How many lbs of meat a vegan didn't eat: 200~
Lbs of CO2 not released into the atmosphere: 1,609~

Also, we usually don't eat trees. Your claim is literally nonsense.."

Him: "How much oxygen is produced by a single leaf in an hour : 5mL == 120mL a day == 43.8L of oxygen a year from a single leaf. Humans requires about 50L of Oxygen an hour to survive. ( source =https://io9.gizmodo.com/5955071/how-many-plants-would-you-need-to-generate-oxygen-for-yourself-in-an-airlock ).

Every time you rip a leaf off a plant you're effectively making someone's life over the course of a year 1 hour shorter. How do you feel about this?"

Me: [Insert what I should say here :P ]
rose10 likes this.
Coto16 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 08-29-2016, 02:35 PM
Ankle Biter
 
Poppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,333
Don't waste your limited time here on earth arguing with people you'll never convince.

It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. ~A. Dumbledore
Poppy is offline  
#3 Old 08-29-2016, 04:11 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 63
He is annoying human garbage. Full of sh*t 💩. 😩😡. I can't post links yet, but check out bitesize vegans '11 things wrong with environmentalism' and 'do vegans kill animals. Or something along those lines. THEN confront him with your information if you can.
Riuma likes this.

Last edited by EarthGodess; 08-29-2016 at 04:17 PM.
EarthGodess is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 08-29-2016, 04:16 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 63
And, for the omni, with the whole leaf thing, the animals you eat rip the plant and eat it, stupid dumb @ss. And since you can't survive on an all meat diet you also have to rip up the plant too, so that's as bad/worse as us vegans are 😡. Besides, eating beef has a HUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE role in deforestation. How many leaves are torn up then? Oh yeah. Lots.
LedBoots and Riuma like this.

Last edited by EarthGodess; 08-29-2016 at 04:20 PM.
EarthGodess is offline  
#5 Old 08-30-2016, 07:00 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
I once heard that if we paved over the entire planet we would be OK when it comes to oxygen because of the algae that is in the oceans. It produces something to the tune of 75% of all of the oxygen that we breathe.

Check out this link: microbeworld.org/types-of-microbes/protista/algae (sorry I can't hotlink since I am too new)

His logic is flawed because he isn't accounting for all of the oxygen that is put back into the air at a greater rate or just as fast of a rate that it is removed. The ecosystem is naturally balanced.

He is also neglecting the hundreds of gallons of water that it takes to raise animals for slaughter AND the feed that they require (Which HA! that feed that they eat ALSO creates oxygen so you are DOUBLE wasting the oxygen by eating animals). Plus the methane and runoff that those animals create. His logic is at least twice as bad for "those people who you are reducing their lives by an hour". So, each burger he eats he reduces a person's life by multiples of an hour.
Riuma likes this.
StuartGrows is offline  
#6 Old 08-30-2016, 05:55 PM
Love
 
Vegan Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 55
Smile

You should remind him that plants grow back.
LedBoots and Riuma like this.

It's all about love!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vegan Mike is offline  
#7 Old 12-15-2016, 01:42 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coto16 View Post
So someone on a forum told me this about veganism and the environment:

Him: "Animals take Oxygen and breathe out Carbon Dioxide which Humans can't use.
Plants take Carbon Dioxide and breathe out Oxygen which Humans can use.

By eating plants you are killing off our supply of Oxygen and causing an increased level of Carbon Dioxide production.

Vegans are destroying our planet"

Me: "Vegetarians use less resources like water, food, oil, contribute less CO2 to the atmosphere, and animals are not killed for their consumption.

Raising livestock contribute more to global warming than automobiles, and is the second leading cause of global warming behind industrial pollution.

Being a vegan for 1 year;
How many animals a vegan saves: 200~
How many lbs of meat a vegan didn't eat: 200~
Lbs of CO2 not released into the atmosphere: 1,609~

Also, we usually don't eat trees. Your claim is literally nonsense.."

Him: "How much oxygen is produced by a single leaf in an hour : 5mL == 120mL a day == 43.8L of oxygen a year from a single leaf. Humans requires about 50L of Oxygen an hour to survive. ( source =https://io9.gizmodo.com/5955071/how-many-plants-would-you-need-to-generate-oxygen-for-yourself-in-an-airlock ).

Every time you rip a leaf off a plant you're effectively making someone's life over the course of a year 1 hour shorter. How do you feel about this?"

Me: [Insert what I should say here :P ]
You could have pointed out that so far, his diet has caused the destruction of 20% of the Amazon rainforest and at least 20% more is expected to disappear in the next 15 years and all for the sake of cattle ranching. How many leaves is that?

I also think that it's never a waste of time to answer to those kinds of questioners because while he might not be changed today, a seed may be planted that the next vegan can 'water' and so on. And then too, there's always the chance of a 'lurker' following your discussion who is a more likely candidate for convincing.

I would also suggest that if you're going to engage in discussion, never make stuff up. Google it and pick sources that are credible and non vegan.
Riuma likes this.
121938 is offline  
#8 Old 12-15-2016, 01:46 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartGrows View Post
I once heard that if we paved over the entire planet we would be OK when it comes to oxygen because of the algae that is in the oceans. It produces something to the tune of 75% of all of the oxygen that we breathe.

Check out this link: microbeworld.org/types-of-microbes/protista/algae (sorry I can't hotlink since I am too new)

His logic is flawed because he isn't accounting for all of the oxygen that is put back into the air at a greater rate or just as fast of a rate that it is removed. The ecosystem is naturally balanced.

......
Thats a great point and then you can pull in the fact that we are killing the oceans with acidification and toxins and yes, even killing the whales. I read once that the waste/feces from whales is vital to the health of the ocean because it fertilizes all the algae that you just mentioned Stuart. Kill off the whales and the algae begins to die off which means that all the fish and other creatures that depend on algae begins to die off too.
Riuma likes this.

Last edited by 121938; 12-15-2016 at 04:29 PM.
121938 is offline  
#9 Old 12-15-2016, 02:44 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,954
Veg'ns eat plants
Meat eaters eat other animals, which are fed plants up until they're slaughtered, and create huge amounts of methane and CO2 into the air and pollute the water.
If you're at all concerned with air quality you'd be vegan and get the most out of fewer plants
http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/t...ticle-mostpop1
https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/new-rese...net-and-people
Riuma and 121938 like this.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good
silva is offline  
#10 Old 12-15-2016, 04:42 PM
Veggie Regular
 
jessandreia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 1,616
Here's what you should say
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CwC9dv3WgAAsmS8.jpg (25.6 KB, 60 views)

"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge

jessandreia is offline  
#11 Old 12-16-2016, 06:54 PM
Vegan since 1991
 
David3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,657
Well-organized vegan organizations, like Vegan Outreach, have determined that the most effective way to promote veganism is by distributing handsouts/literature to as many people as possible. Only a small percentage of those people will be interested, so it makes sense to reach out to lots of people.

Spending all your time arguing with one irrational, argumentative person is unlikely to bring many people towards the vegan diet.

A very good article on this topic: http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/tips.html
Sidhuriel likes this.

_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
David3 is offline  
#12 Old 12-20-2016, 10:15 PM
Bandit
 
Thalassa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 544
Most oxygen actually comes from the ocean, from macroalgae. Then trees, which absorb CO2, and deforestation from animal agriculture is one of the earth's biggest problems. Farmed animals eat plant food that could be fed to humans. Eating 2000 calories of plant based food equals 2000 calories but eating even 200 calories of that in animal products creates 3800 calories of earth stress equivalent. Sources: real science classes, not some website.

"Thinkers may prepare revolutions, but bandits must carry them out"~
Ingrid Newkirk
Thalassa is offline  
#13 Old 01-22-2017, 04:01 PM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 151
'Sources: real science classes, not some website.'

And where do you think scientists and teachers are putting the information that they are teaching in their 'science classes'? You can even register and read archived Harvard, or Berkley or MIT classes.....online. Who would have thunk it? https://www.edx.org
121938 is offline  
#14 Old 01-22-2017, 06:03 PM
Bandit
 
Thalassa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by DebrahM View Post
'Sources: real science classes, not some website.'

And where do you think scientists and teachers are putting the information that they are teaching in their 'science classes'? You can even register and read archived Harvard, or Berkley or MIT classes.....online. Who would have thunk it? https://www.edx.org

You have some sort of personal problem apparently, since you can't evaluate from my statement that there are people on the Intertardz who who still think climate science is up for debate, and that there are equally opposing views on things like man made climate destruction, and there are still people who don't know that veganism is approved for all life stages by the World Health Organization. There are idiots on line who think Brietbart and Popular Mechanics are valid sources of scientific information, or who claim they aren't vegan, "because science" though they were a communications major with a C average who gleaned that information from Dr.Atkins, or paleo.

We live in a time of half-educated people who cannot recognize a peer reviewed scientific source if they were offered a million dollars, clearly evidenced by the election of Donald Trump.

And no, people with PhDs don't get the sum totality of their information from the Internet to teach classes, they actually have to research and do science, and many science professors and those who write text books are PhD's.

"Thinkers may prepare revolutions, but bandits must carry them out"~
Ingrid Newkirk
Thalassa is offline  
#15 Old 01-22-2017, 06:17 PM
Super Moderator
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,954
stop being so adversarial. Both of you

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good
silva is offline  
#16 Old 01-22-2017, 06:22 PM
Bandit
 
Thalassa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 544
Also, it's naive to presume that the sort of person who argued with the OP is impressed by Havard, or even NASA, maybe it's because of your age, but no...they will say Harvard is an elitist college any wealthy person can buy their way into (half true) and will discredit NASA as a liberal government tool. Maybe it's your age, but you apparently have no idea what we are up against with young Western people thinking they're brilliant just because they're high school drop outs who read underground alt-right publications. Some of them, though, if they aren't totally insane, acquiesce to individuals who have specific education in that field from an accredited university. Tell them to go to an MIT website and they'll try to refute it with some garbage Milo Yiannopolis pulled out of his ass.

Even sincere people like yourself, DebrahM, can misinterpret statistics or exaggerate health claims if and when you haven't been taught to interpret, analyze and compare sources.

I talk to people who think they're smart who say organic farming is a ripoff, because they saw it on Penn and Tellers Bull****, when in fact it's been scientifically verified to be better for the land and produce a better product.

It's called confirmation bias, and it's especially bad in people who lack formal education in how to recognize and compare sources.

"Thinkers may prepare revolutions, but bandits must carry them out"~
Ingrid Newkirk
Thalassa is offline  
#17 Old 01-29-2017, 05:34 AM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 151
Your first paragraph is completely insulting. Because of 'my age'??? What do you think I am, a dinosaur?

If some people won't be impressed by Harvard, blah, blah, blah and finish with, they will acquiesce to an individual from an accredited university...'????

[...And no, people with PhDs don't get the sum totality of their information from the Internet to teach classes, they actually have to research and do science, and many science professors and those who write text books are PhD's....]

I think if you reread my comment Thalassa, you will see that I NEVER said that the college professors, etc., are GETTING their information/education from the Internet. What I said is that they are PUTTING it there for the edification of the general public who are interested in expanding their learning and understanding. Hence, the archived class information that is accessible from the Harvard website and probably others. Put there by the faculty for the sake of those of us who are interested but don't have the opportunity to take classes with them directly. You have misinterpreted my comment entirely. Obviously not suitable for becoming employed in those industries or commencing a career in those industries, but suitable for people who have the desire to learn and add to their personal understanding of any given subject.

It's entirely possible to search out credible websites written by people with all the right credentials and get factual, insightful and useful information. And we both know, there are lots of people who sit in classes, take tests and come out the other end with the right to hang out their shingle but they are still a weak resource for whatever it is they are doing.

The fact that you so completely misinterpreted my comment ........

Last edited by 121938; 01-29-2017 at 11:01 AM.
121938 is offline  
#18 Old 01-29-2017, 05:40 AM
Beginner
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
stop being so adversarial. Both of you



Sorry, will follow your recommendation from here on in.
121938 is offline  
#19 Old 02-01-2017, 09:00 PM
Beginner
 
Vrindavan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 155
wild plants vs human grown plants.

meat eaters do not eat plants at all ?

ramsss.com
Vrindavan1 is offline  
#20 Old 02-02-2017, 12:51 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 11
Omg seriously someone said something like that hahahaah
It's like saying that vegans are bad because we eat soy based products and soy farms are wasting a huge amount of power...but no one knows that 2/3 or even 3/4 of this soy is going for animal farms for meat eaters. Don't waste time on talking to people like that one - they're so afraid of not being right that they'd say the biggest bull**** just to make you confused.
silva and Sidhuriel like this.
WillCorw is offline  
#21 Old 03-07-2017, 08:27 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 34
lol It must be bad joke...maybe sarcasm or something?
Actually, raising animals for food produces more greenhouse gas emissions than all of the cars and other forms of transportation combined. I read that in the United States, for example, 70% of the grain grown is fed to farmed animals. As for me, I'm sure that the simplest and cheapest way to reduce the human impact on the environment is to stop eat meat. Unfortunately, environmental pollution is a huge problem. There are so many things around that can a serious diseases: toxic chemicals, nuclear materials, devices that emit ultraviolet and other types of radiation, gas emmissions. I even ordered Handheld detection to detect and localize radioactive materials and radiation level in my area. I think we should pay more attention to the environment protection.
kellyon is offline  
#22 Old 03-07-2017, 09:06 PM
person
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: gone
Posts: 679
I didn't read all of this so this might have been said before

Humans use oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide so do the people have to die too?

Farming masses of animals pumps masses of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Plants make oxygen in the day time but they produce carbon CO2 at night.

A lot of people are just idiots. Ignore them.

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist

When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk
BlueMts is offline  
#23 Old 03-30-2017, 03:20 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Ger Jonker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 396
If you care about the planet, then I think being vegan is perhaps the best thing that you can do to help save it.

Check out: www.cowspiracy.com

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Ger Jonker is offline  
#24 Old 03-30-2017, 03:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Ger Jonker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMts View Post
Farming masses of animals pumps masses of CO2 into the atmosphere.
Regenerative organic farming may be a practical solution to sequestering all those harmful CO2 emissions.

Check out: http://bit.ly/1LwstBD

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Ger Jonker is offline  
#25 Old 03-30-2017, 11:55 PM
person
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: gone
Posts: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ger Jonker View Post
Regenerative organic farming may be a practical solution to sequestering all those harmful CO2 emissions.

Check out: http://bit.ly/1LwstBD

I hope you don't think I am pro-farming animals. I'm not.I despise it. I was making the point that humans use up the oxygen and pump CO2 into the atmosphere and we don't think people have to die horrible deaths because of that but we farm animals who do the same thing and they have horrible lives and deaths.

It was in response to the "veganism is bad for the atmosphere" claim which is what is stupid. Eating cultivated plants is much less damaging than farming masses of animals - so the non vegans are the ones damaging the atmosphere.

I don't call myself a vegan because I have meds that use lactose as filler. Everything else is animal product free. I don't take capsuals unless they are veg.

If everyone stopped using dairy then the pharmaceutical companies would have to find something less evil to mix into their products.

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist

When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk
BlueMts is offline  
#26 Old 03-31-2017, 12:06 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 489
It's amazing how strict some people are about what constitutes veganism, sounds like you are a vegan to me.
Jamie in Chile is offline  
#27 Old 03-31-2017, 08:00 PM
person
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: gone
Posts: 679
I hate cruelty to any animal but I have a real loathing for the dairy industry so it really (insert word we are not allowed to use here) me off that so may medications have lactose in them.

How dare advertisers talk about "happy" cows and supporting Australian dairy farming families. Why does anyone support sadistic killers. I am so glad their farms are doing so poorly here.

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist

When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk
BlueMts is offline  
#28 Old 04-03-2017, 06:46 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Ger Jonker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMts View Post
I hope you don't think I am pro-farming animals. I'm not.I despise it.
I just meant that it's a good idea to plant organic crops and/or trees where land is now being used as pasture or as a place to grow food for livestock. At present, too much land is being used up for these purposes.

If you can, check out: www.cowspiracy.com

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Last edited by Ger Jonker; 04-03-2017 at 02:18 PM.
Ger Jonker is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off