Everything Wrong With Environmentalism In 11 Minutes Or Less!! - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-21-2015, 09:50 AM
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Everything Wrong With Environmentalism In 11 Minutes Or Less!!


The top environmental organizations and environmentalists should be fighting against the top threat to the environment, right? Well, they’re not. In this fact-packed, fast-paced video we’ll tally up everything wrong with environmentalism in 11 minutes or less. See the blog post for all citations and additional resources
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#2 Old 07-21-2015, 10:50 AM
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Until & unless everything is all-encompassing, that cause will go to heck in the end. Same goes for environmentalism. Most of the environmentalists today are omnivores and pointing that out would only get you strange looks I suppose. The problem is that man has this cheeky way of reasoning against air-tight logic.

Crop farming has to be done the old fashioned way - by hand, use of diesel tractors, harvesting machines, burning the waste crop creates so much pollution. Animal farming, well we all know what that results in, one of the heaviest polluting industries of all time. Then there are car industries who claim better mileage by innovation, but make v6, v8 engines that give a 20mpg at best. Recyling is only half-baked as none have the initiative to do it and even if done it hardly makes up for the 90% of the time when new raw materials are used to make stuff. Cleaner fuels, what is that? All fuels emit CO, benzene etc which create damage to our ecosphere. Basically everything is marketing terminology which result in absolute nothingness as far as saving the environment goes.

Either man learns to accept and live within his means as minimalistically as possible starting today or he can live long enough to see the fruits of his labor - global warming, weather changes, air pollution and water poisoning before he becomes extinct alongwith every other life on earth.

The earth has enough resources for everyones need but not their greed.

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#3 Old 07-22-2015, 04:02 AM
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Until & unless everything is all-encompassing, that cause will go to heck in the end. Same goes for environmentalism. Most of the environmentalists today are omnivores and pointing that out would only get you strange looks I suppose. The problem is that man has this cheeky way of reasoning against air-tight logic.

Crop farming has to be done the old fashioned way - by hand, use of diesel tractors, harvesting machines, burning the waste crop creates so much pollution. Animal farming, well we all know what that results in, one of the heaviest polluting industries of all time. Then there are car industries who claim better mileage by innovation, but make v6, v8 engines that give a 20mpg at best. Recyling is only half-baked as none have the initiative to do it and even if done it hardly makes up for the 90% of the time when new raw materials are used to make stuff. Cleaner fuels, what is that? All fuels emit CO, benzene etc which create damage to our ecosphere. Basically everything is marketing terminology which result in absolute nothingness as far as saving the environment goes.

Either man learns to accept and live within his means as minimalistically as possible starting today or he can live long enough to see the fruits of his labor - global warming, weather changes, air pollution and water poisoning before he becomes extinct alongwith every other life on earth.
thanks you for this thoughtful comment. and it is very true that airtight logic is rarely accepted...sadly

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#4 Old 07-22-2015, 05:01 AM
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They're hitting so many of the same points vegans hit. Their messages conflict in no way with the messages of veganism; in fact, they dovetail. There will always be a temperamental contrast between revolutionaries and incrementalists, but that's probably due to the way different people are wired. One group tries to get a few people to do everything, and the other tries to get a lot of people to do something. There's no inherent conflict between these two tactics unless you have the same person trying both tactics at once.

I began to stop eating meat because of an interview with an environmentalist I heard on NPR while driving. While driving far, as I did twice a day five days a week back then. He might as well have been in the car speaking to me one-on-one. The environmentalist said, "If you have to drive a lot but want to do something, the single best move you can make is to cut back on red meat." That's their thing: to get a whole lot of people to pull back a bit on their most destructive habits, rather than expending their energy urging people to upend all their lifelong habits and change everything. They know people better than to try for that. Whereas you, BSV, are aware that people exist who can be moved to do more, so it's natural for you as a vegan to shoot for reaching those people. No conflict there! Environmentalists' message is implicit that if you pull back more, your habits cause even less destruction, and I connected the dots and pressed on with further changes. Many people do, but environmental opinion leaders tend to be about guiding people toward changes more people find doable. We'd be insane to have a problem with that.

On a side note, people who give up meat altogether for environmental reasons are evidently more likely to stay off meat than those who do so for animals or for their own health. Churning up conflict where none need exist, potshots at environmentalists. Why? Please consider what you're trying to accomplish with these videos and the cost of burning good will needlessly. You can do what you do without shooting down the efforts of people who are approaching some of the same problems from a different tack.
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Last edited by Joan Kennedy; 07-22-2015 at 05:31 AM.
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#5 Old 07-22-2015, 06:50 AM
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@Joan Kennedy do you have the studies that show that people who give up meat for environmentally reasons are more likely to remain vegetarian? I have looked before but not found anything substantial.
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#6 Old 07-22-2015, 07:00 AM
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Here’s an article about the study I was remembering. Not conclusive, as they acknowledge, but definitely a valid basis for closer exploration! And counter to the working hypothesis of the study authors.

https://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2014is...vegetarian.php

From the article: "The vast majority of vegans and vegetarians stayed at least vegetarian. Our hypothesis was that people who became vegetarian primarily for ethical reasons would be much more likely to stay vegetarian than health vegetarians. This did not hold up, with 93% of health individuals staying vegetarian from 2006 to 2012, and 97% of ethical motivators staying vegetarian. Interestingly, of those who gave the environmental reason, 100% stayed vegetarian. In this article, we can only make conclusions about those who responded in 2006 and 2012."

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#7 Old 07-22-2015, 09:44 AM
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If you’re going to criticize environmentalism, you first have to define it. You can’t conflate “environmentalism” with “EPA policy emphasis.” EPA takes its orders from the White House and from Congress, a voting majority of which is anti-science and anti-conservation. Likewise, if you’re talking to a self-identifying environmentalist, that person’s own diet is more germane to the discussion than the "average meat-lover’s" diet.

Obviously, low meat consumption has less of an environmental impact than heavy. Eating one piece of turkey once a year makes you non-vegan, but not all forms of meat are equally hard on the environment and not all levels of consumption are equally destructive. Beef takes more of a toll on the environment than chicken, and vegetables take more of a toll than grain, when you compare different food groups by 1,000-calorie serving rather than by weight. And there’s a good reason to compare calorie by calorie, rather than kilo by kilo: If you’re trying to get all your protein from produce and tree fruits, your carbon footprint will be much larger than that of someone who gets most of his protein from beans and grain.

You lack the data to assume an environmentalist's meat consumption is at or even close to our national average. So if you want to ding “environmentalism" for not being veganism, don’t use Standard American Diet figures unless you know those figures apply to that group. Define your “environmentalist” population, find out what the average environmentalist’s diet is, and compare veganism to that. And while you’re at it, you’d best know the environmentally relevant habits of your vegan population. You can be vegan and still drive a gas-guzzler 90 miles a day and keep your house at meat-locker temperature all summer. Just like you can be a non-vegan, consume very little animal product, work from home, and ride your bike everywhere it’s too far to walk. Which has the lower carbon footprint?
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#8 Old 07-22-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan Kennedy View Post
They're hitting so many of the same points vegans hit. Their messages conflict in no way with the messages of veganism; in fact, they dovetail. There will always be a temperamental contrast between revolutionaries and incrementalists, but that's probably due to the way different people are wired. One group tries to get a few people to do everything, and the other tries to get a lot of people to do something. There's no inherent conflict between these two tactics unless you have the same person trying both tactics at once.

I began to stop eating meat because of an interview with an environmentalist I heard on NPR while driving. While driving far, as I did twice a day five days a week back then. He might as well have been in the car speaking to me one-on-one. The environmentalist said, "If you have to drive a lot but want to do something, the single best move you can make is to cut back on red meat." That's their thing: to get a whole lot of people to pull back a bit on their most destructive habits, rather than expending their energy urging people to upend all their lifelong habits and change everything. They know people better than to try for that. Whereas you, BSV, are aware that people exist who can be moved to do more, so it's natural for you as a vegan to shoot for reaching those people. No conflict there! Environmentalists' message is implicit that if you pull back more, your habits cause even less destruction, and I connected the dots and pressed on with further changes. Many people do, but environmental opinion leaders tend to be about guiding people toward changes more people find doable. We'd be insane to have a problem with that.

On a side note, people who give up meat altogether for environmental reasons are evidently more likely to stay off meat than those who do so for animals or for their own health. Churning up conflict where none need exist, potshots at environmentalists. Why? Please consider what you're trying to accomplish with these videos and the cost of burning good will needlessly. You can do what you do without shooting down the efforts of people who are approaching some of the same problems from a different tack.

I don't get what you are not agreeing with when it comes to the video. What she's giving is facts. and the most important one is, a very big factor for environmental issues namely animal agriculture is very much ignored by the masses.
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#9 Old 07-22-2015, 12:04 PM
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I don't get what you are not agreeing with when it comes to the video. What she's giving is facts. and the most important one is, a very big factor for environmental issues namely animal agriculture is very much ignored by the masses.
Rasitha, did you read my other posts, and are you still confused about what I mean? Veganism is a belief that humans should not eat, experiment on, enslave or exploit animals in any way. To be vegan is to believe that and try to live by it. By comparison, environmentalism is a general concern for the health of the planet, which covers different, vast, and competing ecological problems. Concern for the planet often means dedicating one's energy and talents to trying to remediate even one of Earth's many, many ailments. It's not just which problem you think is the most important, it's also which problem you're in the best position to help out with. Environmentalists work for or donate to or belong to different organizations and membership societies whose people concentrate on different parts of the same overall problem. Because environmental issues are so many and so hard to get together on, some people focus on the pollution of the ocean, others on particulates in the air, others on endangered animal species, others on the effects of animal agriculture on our water tables, for just four examples. Some of the facts BSV is using to dispute "environmentalism" were in fact compiled by environmentalists. It gets fuzzier and less coherent the further into it she gets. When you say "You can't call yourself an environmentalist if you're not vegan," what is that even supposed to mean? That if you're not vegan you can't give money to Friends of the Earth? That you can't invent an electric generator or water purifier that runs on elephant dung? That you can't engineer an enzyme that breaks down oil slicks? That you can't draft articles of international law to outlaw harmful whaling practices? That you can't invest financially in ecologically beneficial advances? Really??? All because you're not vegan? Those engineers working to develop alternative fuel sources, or the geophysicists who are trying to develop ways to trap and store excess carbon dioxide, if they manage to do that, does anyone really care what they're eating?

And the other part is, I don't know and neither does BSV, how many environmentalists live their personal lives to try and reduce their own personal carbon footprints. And what they do about meat and other animal products. I have to think that's a different answer for pretty much every environmentalist. She makes assumption after assumption about environmentalists living on meat-heavy diets, but none of her facts address that, much less back her up.

One last thing. There's something I've been coming across for awhile, and I've seen it on VB; it's time to stop circulating that Michael Pollan quote that “a vegan in a Hummer has a lighter carbon footprint than a beef-eater in a Prius.” He retracted that one a long time ago, though he was making a valid point. A vegan in a Prius beats a meat-eater on a bicycle, which means a vegan on a bicycle is pretty much God.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/ene...-is-the-better

Last edited by Joan Kennedy; 07-24-2015 at 10:17 AM.
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#10 Old 07-22-2015, 12:16 PM
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Friends of the Earth, while not a vegetarian organization, does promote meat-reduction for the sake of energy & resource conservation: http://www.foe.org/projects/food-and...healthy-planet
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Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/
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#11 Old 07-23-2015, 09:05 AM
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Many tree-huggers are also leaf-eaters. I have read that the membership of Canada's Wildlife Defence League is overwhelmingly vegan.

Last edited by Joan Kennedy; 07-23-2015 at 09:20 AM.
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